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  1. #11
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    Infj's are extremely rare, the odds of you actually being one is pretty low. That's what Marm was gettin' at.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Hee hee. Sorry if I offended you. I mean it. Didn't want to hurt your feelings or anything. There are quite a few ENFPs I find very, very awesome, like, say, Luis Molina from Kiss of the Spider Woman (he was an ENFP, right?). I just get kinda peeved when the SJ who wants to live an orderly life is shown to be "wrong" in these movies - why is there supposed to be just one way to live your life? Ahem. Rant over.
    No, my feelings weren't hurt at all, but thank you for caring. I was trying to joke around about it a bit, sorry if that wasn't clear.

    Yeah, I mean ENFPs can try to pull SJs out of their orderly lives, but SJs can also attempt to impose order on NPs or SPs as well, so it goes both ways. There are plenty of right ways to live, I don't think there's just one.

    I'm quite curious - what peeves you about these INFPs?
    Usually if I'm annoyed with an INFP I feel that they are looking too hard for something to be offended about, like they're being eternally pessimisstic and acting like the world is out to get them; essentially the victim act.

    Also, some INFP males just give me this vibe that makes my skin crawl. I think it might be repressed rage on their part that I'm picking up on, I'm not quite sure, but I don't like it.

    What do you mean by "the collective me"? Could you please elaborate?
    Oh just "you" in the plural sense...the collective you is everybody, I was saying I wasn't just directing it toward you as an individual.

    Also, thanks for answering the thread. And sorry, one more time, if I offended you. Or Zooey Deschanel. Or both.
    Ha ha no problem. I wasn't offended, I promise.

  3. #13

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    You seem pretty INFP. I know two INFJs, my mother and a 20-year-old female, and you don't sound like either of them... My thoughts are bolded below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post

    Pro-INFP/Anti-INFJ

    * I identify a lot more with my ISFP mother than with my ESFJ father - the latter comes across as pretty damn judgmental and controlling, like a "Jewish mother" stereotype. (Fi vs. Fe?)

    I had an ISFP teacher in elementary school. I really identified with her expressions of deep feeling (Fi)... My INFJ mother often notes that my teacher and I can both be very emotionally stubborn.

    * I'm mostly a "live and let live"/"that is none of my business" kind of person. I'm ready to help (if asked nicely ), but I don't want to interfere too much in people's decisions (the "for your own good" line is not my favorite)

    INFJs will interfere!! There are threads at personalitycafe.com for each type asking what pisses you off about each type (e.g. What pisses you off about INFPs?, What pisses you off about INFJs?, etc.) and one of the things about INFJs is that they love to give unsolicited advice

    * I couldn't be mistaken for an extravert if I tried. Quite a few INFJ profiles (and INFJs themselves) mention being mistaken for an extravert, so I thought this was worth noting. I'm very reserved - a bit of a shrinking violet, even - and have a bit of a struggle doing small talk - it was one of those this they had to teach me, y'know?

    very much worth noting. When I told my mom she was an introvert (INFJ), she argued that she was an extrovert... until I explained the differences between introvert and extrovert as MBTI tells it.

    * I've struggled with my typing for quite a while, which, according to Vicky Jo, is a pretty good sign that I have a lack of Je (extraverted judging).

    * Even when I'm pretty pissed at someone, I find it hard to scold them (especially since I hate being scolded). I've heard INFJs are more comfortable criticizing others, so...

    * I'm pretty damn sheepish when asking for something. Unless it's a matter of urgency, I'm all like "um... could you please... y'know... if it's not too much of a bother..."

    * I react (internally) pretty badly when people are being judgmental - for example, when someone talks about "those crazy teenagers with pink hair" and whatnot.

    these four are very INFPish.

    Pro-INFJ/Anti-INFP

    * I very much fear embarrassment/humiliation - in this sense, I really mind how people perceive me. Could this be Fe?

    actually I think INFPs fear embarassment a deal more than INFJs do. INFPs have Feeling first, which creates a strong people awareness, and the second function Ne, in a way, SERVES the first function Fi. INFJs have iNtuition as their first function, so even though they have Fe, it comes second and mostly serves the interests of Ni. Fe in INFJs is also more assertive and confident... maybe cause of Ni?

    Of course most people fear embarrassment at some level but it is much more intense in INFPs than INFJs! My INFJ mom says she doesn't feel nervous or worried in public, usually, and never mentions these issues as problems. The 20-year-old female INFJ also doesn't seem to have these issues, and comes across as assertive and rather confident and quite emotionally expressive.


    * I often try to be polite in a conventional way - "please" and "thank you" and all that jazz. I even started bowing to bus drivers for a while, but my parents thought it was weird and didn't convey gratitude in a sense they could understand (again, Fe?).

    In elementary school my friends often teased me for being "too polite". I would say sorry again and again for shooting a ball at the wrong angle in ball games. INFJs? They would sooner come across as pushy than "too polite" (note: don't take this the wrong way, i very much respect INFJs)

    * I'm quite perfectionistic, which I've heard is a trait common among Js. I often berate myself if I miss deadlines or arrive late at appointments.

    INFPs are pretty dang perfectionistic too. (well I am at least). ESPECIALLY when it's about one of my values... I make it a point to come early to appointments because, well, I value being polite.

    * I often identify more with ENFJs than ENFPs. The latter - or, at least, media depictions of the latter - often annoy me, seeming either oblivious to others' feelings or sneakily meddlesome, ready to "bring people out of their shells" or "make them live life more fully", in addition to being those "Wooo... what does this button do?" types. I'm pretty sure that's quite stereotypical, but I thought it might be useful info nevertheless.

    This seems more of the function order than the J/P difference. Take a look:
    ENFJ: Fe Ni Se Ti
    INFP: Fi Ne Si Te
    ENFP: Ne Fi Te Si
    Both INFPs and ENFJs Feeling function comes first. To grossly generalize, they will consider the Feelings of themselves and other people first.

    EDIT: Can't believe I forgot to write this... for the 2 ENFJs I've known (one female, one male), we've had some pretty uncanny resemblances. Generally we coincide in the strong sense of wanting to be liked by people, but also in several extremely specific instances where we have the exact same reaction to something... It's uncanny


    * I'm a bit of a "toe the line", rule-abiding kind of guy - the kind that almost never got in trouble at school. (However, I'm ostensibly not a SJ - the Guardian style sometimes seems kinda dry or humdrum to me.)

    Yeah, INFPs immensely dislike conflict. It always struck me as more likely that an INFJ would have less qualms about breaking the rules for an idea they support.

    * I'm somewhat selective about what I tell people, often looking out for their reactions. From what I've read, NFPs have more of a childlike candor about them. However, it is quite difficult for me to lie, so I just keep my mouth shut.

    haha, as an INFP, on the inside I often feel as dirty and impure as anyone else, except with a deep Fi conviction, but somehow we just manage to come across as innocent, sweet angels... :/

    * I seldom express my opinions - even denying that I have any. They ask me, "where do you want to have lunch?", I say, "I dunno. You?", partially because they have plenty of divergent opinions without my help.

    this seems very INFP-ish. Trust an INFJ to always have an opinion AND be able to state it when asked (or not) AND they often give amazing advice too. INFPs are much more comfortable communicating on paper/online

    * I've been called "rigid" due to my OCD-ish behavior, as well as my misguided politeness ("I won't eat until she arrives. You guys can start without me.")

    this could be the INFPs and their rigid values. It feels right, so we stick to it.

    * I'm pretty neurotic about time. My watch is my guide through the strange world I inhabit, and I've made a habit out of using an alarm clock on weekends (partially because there are few things more humiliating than hearing someone say "hey there, sleepyhead!")

    I absolutely must bring a watch whenever I go out! I can't imagine going out and not being able to check the time. I get the feeling that an INFJ has sort of a natural clock. and thus would not feel so much of a need for an external source of time. It's precisely because I lack a sense of time that I feel the need for a watch.

    * I often ask myself whether or not I'm being selfish, so I try my best to be helpful and even somewhat obsequious (Fe?) For that matter, I often feel like I owe people something, if that makes any sense.

    yes, this is me. I think it's because my Fi is so internalized that when I finally look out, I realized I haven't thought much about other people and their specific needs (which Fe does naturally), so i try to compensate.

    * I'm no good at the whole "spontaneity" thing. Like, at all. Kind of an uptight guy.

    i think introversion and enneagram play a significant part in this. especially the instinctual variants; have you looked into those? I'm a 4w5 sp/sx, where sp stands for self-preservational, which explains my uptightness compared to some other INFPs.

    * While I can be somewhat over-sensitive to people's comments, I don't come across as someone who's very emotional or vulnerable at first glance (according to Vicky Jo, INFPs often forget to hide their vulnerability)

    I think this applies to both INFPs and INFJs. Actually, in my experience, INFJs are more likely to be emotionally expressive first.

    * Sometimes, my internal lanscape can feel somewhat barren, to the point where I once thought I was a sociopath or something like that (could this be the infamous INFJ Tin Man Syndrome?)

    I'm not sure why but I get these feelings too... I thought I was INTP for a short while lol

    * I often try to anticipate what I (and others) are going to do - I get kind of nervous when we go out for dinner and start driving without knowing where we're going.

    maybe the enneagram 5's need to know? I know I feel a need to know what's going to happen, but it arises out of a need to know and a need to form a big picture and not necessarily about planning what I'm going to do next. then again this probably applies to both INFJ and INFP.

    * It's kind of hard for me to really relax. While I'm somewhat lazy, I'm not nearly as "go with the flow" as INFP are said to be.

    In what context? In social situations I'm pretty uptight, and even when I feel emotionally turbulent, I've been told I seem peaceful and reserved. and I guess I come across as pretty "go with the flow".

    * While INFPs (according, again, to Vicky Jo) like debating (due to aspirational Te), I kind of bristle at the thought of doing so, especially in a public forum (as in an actual place, not just on the 'net)

    Hmmm... I always fantasize about the wonders of debate and using my inferior Te, but when I get to the actual thing I more than often chicken out
    Hope I helped...

  4. #14
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    Whoops, sorry for the delay - I was visiting my relatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Infj's are extremely rare, the odds of you actually being one is pretty low. That's what Marm was gettin' at.
    Yeah, I've heard. But I suppose the percentage is larger among the subgroup "people interested in typology", no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    No, my feelings weren't hurt at all, but thank you for caring. I was trying to joke around about it a bit, sorry if that wasn't clear.
    Yeah, I thought you were joking, but I prefer to err on the side of caution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yeah, I mean ENFPs can try to pull SJs out of their orderly lives, but SJs can also attempt to impose order on NPs or SPs as well, so it goes both ways. There are plenty of right ways to live, I don't think there's just one.
    Oh, yes. A tale as old as time. Or PSAs. It does go both ways, I know - I was just making an observation about ENFPs in movies. The fallacy, of course, is the one-size-fits-all thinking.



    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Usually if I'm annoyed with an INFP I feel that they are looking too hard for something to be offended about, like they're being eternally pessimisstic and acting like the world is out to get them; essentially the victim act.
    Could these be Enneatype Fours?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Also, some INFP males just give me this vibe that makes my skin crawl. I think it might be repressed rage on their part that I'm picking up on, I'm not quite sure, but I don't like it.
    Hmmm, that's funny. I thought INFJs were the ones who felt anger more often yet repressed it, whereas INFPs seldom feel it but "explode" when they do. Live and learn, I s'pose.



    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Oh just "you" in the plural sense...the collective you is everybody, I was saying I wasn't just directing it toward you as an individual.
    Ah, okay. I misunderstood. It happens.



    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Ha ha no problem. I wasn't offended, I promise.
    But what about Zooey? Should I write her a letter of apology? (Just kidding. )

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * I identify a lot more with my ISFP mother than with my ESFJ father - the latter comes across as pretty damn judgmental and controlling, like a "Jewish mother" stereotype. (Fi vs. Fe?)

    I had an ISFP teacher in elementary school. I really identified with her expressions of deep feeling (Fi)... My INFJ mother often notes that my teacher and I can both be very emotionally stubborn.
    My ma's actually pretty damn light-hearted, kind of a foil to my perpetual neurotic self. My pa's the one playing "Poor Me" most of the time. Make of that what you will, as they say.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I'm mostly a "live and let live"/"that is none of my business" kind of person. I'm ready to help (if asked nicely ), but I don't want to interfere too much in people's decisions (the "for your own good" line is not my favorite)

    INFJs will interfere!! There are threads at personalitycafe.com for each type asking what pisses you off about each type (e.g. What pisses you off about INFPs?, What pisses you off about INFJs?, etc.) and one of the things about INFJs is that they love to give unsolicited advice
    Mind you, I bristle when people treat others badly, even in not-so-overt ways, but I usually keep my pie-hole shut. Especially if it's my father, who, paradoxically, seems to be oblivious to his rejection of others, despite being Fe-dom.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I couldn't be mistaken for an extravert if I tried. Quite a few INFJ profiles (and INFJs themselves) mention being mistaken for an extravert, so I thought this was worth noting. I'm very reserved - a bit of a shrinking violet, even - and have a bit of a struggle doing small talk - it was one of those this they had to teach me, y'know?

    very much worth noting. When I told my mom she was an introvert (INFJ), she argued that she was an extrovert... until I explained the differences between introvert and extrovert as MBTI tells it.
    To be honest, sometimes I'm downright reclusive; during vacation, I'm almost a hikkikomori. (Ironically, the most extraverted introverts, ISFPs, are Fi-dom rather than Fe-dom. Funny how that works.)

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I've struggled with my typing for quite a while, which, according to Vicky Jo, is a pretty good sign that I have a lack of Je (extraverted judging).

    * Even when I'm pretty pissed at someone, I find it hard to scold them (especially since I hate being scolded). I've heard INFJs are more comfortable criticizing others, so...

    * I'm pretty damn sheepish when asking for something. Unless it's a matter of urgency, I'm all like "um... could you please... y'know... if it's not too much of a bother..."

    * I react (internally) pretty badly when people are being judgmental - for example, when someone talks about "those crazy teenagers with pink hair" and whatnot.

    these four are very INFPish.
    I should mention, though, I have a pretty proactive side. Rather than moaning, I decide to get things done, especially if other people are doing little more than complaining to the walls. (Poor walls. Will nobody pay attention to their feelings?) However, I have a bad habit of loitering around office doors for a pretty good while before sheepishly knocking, at least when I have extra time.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I very much fear embarrassment/humiliation - in this sense, I really mind how people perceive me. Could this be Fe?

    actually I think INFPs fear embarassment a deal more than INFJs do. INFPs have Feeling first, which creates a strong people awareness, and the second function Ne, in a way, SERVES the first function Fi. INFJs have iNtuition as their first function, so even though they have Fe, it comes second and mostly serves the interests of Ni. Fe in INFJs is also more assertive and confident... maybe cause of Ni?
    That's funny... in another thread, IFJs were "voted" most likely to be hurt by public humiliation by several posters. Your response makes a lot of sense, though...

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * Of course most people fear embarrassment at some level but it is much more intense in INFPs than INFJs! My INFJ mom says she doesn't feel nervous or worried in public, usually, and never mentions these issues as problems. The 20-year-old female INFJ also doesn't seem to have these issues, and comes across as assertive and rather confident and quite emotionally expressive.
    Interesting... Whenever I have to speak to an audience, I start, huh, speaking like, huh, Jeff Goldblum. I often at least try not to shrink too much, though. I'd hate to lose face in addition to feeling nervous.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I often try to be polite in a conventional way - "please" and "thank you" and all that jazz. I even started bowing to bus drivers for a while, but my parents thought it was weird and didn't convey gratitude in a sense they could understand (again, Fe?).

    In elementary school my friends often teased me for being "too polite". I would say sorry again and again for shooting a ball at the wrong angle in ball games. INFJs? They would sooner come across as pushy than "too polite" (note: don't take this the wrong way, i very much respect INFJs)
    That's a pretty solid point. Yay, I'm learning!

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I'm quite perfectionistic, which I've heard is a trait common among Js. I often berate myself if I miss deadlines or arrive late at appointments.

    INFPs are pretty dang perfectionistic too. (well I am at least). ESPECIALLY when it's about one of my values... I make it a point to come early to appointments because, well, I value being polite.
    I'm kind of half-hearted about things I don't enjoy, but I do at least make an effort. I was the guy who sighed every time our school project group decided precious meeting time was wasted on too many not-basketball-related activities. ("Look, I can do this thing if you don't want to, okay? I just don't want to get a bad grade.")

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I often identify more with ENFJs than ENFPs. The latter - or, at least, media depictions of the latter - often annoy me, seeming either oblivious to others' feelings or sneakily meddlesome, ready to "bring people out of their shells" or "make them live life more fully", in addition to being those "Wooo... what does this button do?" types. I'm pretty sure that's quite stereotypical, but I thought it might be useful info nevertheless.

    This seems more of the function order than the J/P difference. Take a look:
    ENFJ: Fe Ni Se Ti
    INFP: Fi Ne Si Te
    ENFP: Ne Fi Te Si
    Both INFPs and ENFJs Feeling function comes first. To grossly generalize, they will consider the Feelings of themselves and other people first.

    EDIT: Can't believe I forgot to write this... for the 2 ENFJs I've known (one female, one male), we've had some pretty uncanny resemblances. Generally we coincide in the strong sense of wanting to be liked by people, but also in several extremely specific instances where we have the exact same reaction to something... It's uncanny
    That seems valid... though, like I said, I often butt heads (passive-aggressively) with my ESFJ father, who shares a dominant function with ENFJs.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I'm a bit of a "toe the line", rule-abiding kind of guy - the kind that almost never got in trouble at school. (However, I'm ostensibly not a SJ - the Guardian style sometimes seems kinda dry or humdrum to me.)

    Yeah, INFPs immensely dislike conflict. It always struck me as more likely that an INFJ would have less qualms about breaking the rules for an idea they support.
    Yeah, I get you, but INFPs are supposed to be the guys who "live by their values", no? Or is "not rocking the boat" a value? I've read that feelings are "sacred" and "non-negotiable" for IFPs, but I often try to detach and filter them in order not to be reckless or impulsive. Is that rare among INFPs?

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I'm somewhat selective about what I tell people, often looking out for their reactions. From what I've read, NFPs have more of a childlike candor about them. However, it is quite difficult for me to lie, so I just keep my mouth shut.

    haha, as an INFP, on the inside I often feel as dirty and impure as anyone else, except with a deep Fi conviction, but somehow we just manage to come across as innocent, sweet angels... :/
    I frequently envy purity, as I said before - in that sense, I'm quite the perfectionist. Are INFPs more "accepting" of their own faults and peccadillos?

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I seldom express my opinions - even denying that I have any. They ask me, "where do you want to have lunch?", I say, "I dunno. You?", partially because they have plenty of divergent opinions without my help.

    this seems very INFP-ish. Trust an INFJ to always have an opinion AND be able to state it when asked (or not) AND they often give amazing advice too. INFPs are much more comfortable communicating on paper/online
    I hear ya... Advice-giving is not my strong point. Though "go see a shrink" usually works pretty well, despite the lingering taboo.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I've been called "rigid" due to my OCD-ish behavior, as well as my misguided politeness ("I won't eat until she arrives. You guys can start without me.")

    this could be the INFPs and their rigid values. It feels right, so we stick to it.
    My ESFJ dad hates this. "Why are you doing this to yourself?" Because I can, bub. Zip it. I'm not forbidding you from eating.


    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I'm pretty neurotic about time. My watch is my guide through the strange world I inhabit, and I've made a habit out of using an alarm clock on weekends (partially because there are few things more humiliating than hearing someone say "hey there, sleepyhead!")

    I absolutely must bring a watch whenever I go out! I can't imagine going out and not being able to check the time. I get the feeling that an INFJ has sort of a natural clock. and thus would not feel so much of a need for an external source of time. It's precisely because I lack a sense of time that I feel the need for a watch.
    I seem to recall several INFJs saying something similar. On a related note, Five-ness may enter the equation - I visit several websites in a routine manner (for example, friday is Webcomic Catching Up With Day), and I frequently fear that my schedule will be so crammed that I won't be able to do the things I like (especially when travel enters the equation).

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I often ask myself whether or not I'm being selfish, so I try my best to be helpful and even somewhat obsequious (Fe?) For that matter, I often feel like I owe people something, if that makes any sense.

    yes, this is me. I think it's because my Fi is so internalized that when I finally look out, I realized I haven't thought much about other people and their specific needs (which Fe does naturally), so i try to compensate.
    That seems to make sense. A lot of people characterize Fi as selfish, but I think it can be quite self-sacrificing and other-oriented. As the Ti/Te dichotomy shows, the barriers between Xi and Xe can be somewhat blurry.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I'm no good at the whole "spontaneity" thing. Like, at all. Kind of an uptight guy.

    i think introversion and enneagram play a significant part in this. especially the instinctual variants; have you looked into those? I'm a 4w5 sp/sx, where sp stands for self-preservational, which explains my uptightness compared to some other INFPs.
    Holy Mackerel, you're right! I, too, think I'm sp/sx, which could account for that. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * While I can be somewhat over-sensitive to people's comments, I don't come across as someone who's very emotional or vulnerable at first glance (according to Vicky Jo, INFPs often forget to hide their vulnerability)

    I think this applies to both INFPs and INFJs. Actually, in my experience, INFJs are more likely to be emotionally expressive first.
    Really? I've heard they are the NTs of the NFs, so I thought they were more stoic. I, myself, can be cold with some people, even if it's not my intention. Honestly, for the longest time I thought I was an INTJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * Sometimes, my internal lanscape can feel somewhat barren, to the point where I once thought I was a sociopath or something like that (could this be the infamous INFJ Tin Man Syndrome?)

    I'm not sure why but I get these feelings too... I thought I was INTP for a short while lol
    I remembered something... Vicky Jo said, in her main INFJ website, that the Tin Man represented NFs in general, not just INFJs. Catalysts (read:NFs), according to her, can develop "tin skin" and act cynical in order not to be hurt, squandering their potential for caring. Pretty sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * I often try to anticipate what I (and others) are going to do - I get kind of nervous when we go out for dinner and start driving without knowing where we're going.

    maybe the enneagram 5's need to know? I know I feel a need to know what's going to happen, but it arises out of a need to know and a need to form a big picture and not necessarily about planning what I'm going to do next. then again this probably applies to both INFJ and INFP.
    Yep. They say Fives are rational and cerebral and emotionless and whatnot, but the real stamp of the Five is the preoccupation with the demands that are going to be made from them - their time, their emotional energy, their knowledge... I think they can be quite cuddly when they decide it's okay to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * It's kind of hard for me to really relax. While I'm somewhat lazy, I'm not nearly as "go with the flow" as INFP are said to be.

    In what context? In social situations I'm pretty uptight, and even when I feel emotionally turbulent, I've been told I seem peaceful and reserved. and I guess I come across as pretty "go with the flow".
    My anxiety is somewhat pervasive, especially now that I'm in a university. (It's kinda different from American colleges, though.) When someone announces, "Hey, we're gonna leave in a few minutes. You ready?", I'm all, "WHOAWHOAWHOA, why didn't you tell me beforehand?" I like knowing things in advance, so I can "plan" how I'm going to manage my time. My precious, precious time, that I could be wasting in reading Agony Booth recaps or listening to SSBB music on YouTube for the Nth time.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * * While INFPs (according, again, to Vicky Jo) like debating (due to aspirational Te), I kind of bristle at the thought of doing so, especially in a public forum (as in an actual place, not just on the 'net)

    Hmmm... I always fantasize about the wonders of debate and using my inferior Te, but when I get to the actual thing I more than often chicken out
    Ace Attorney fanboy by night, servant by day. That's how I roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    * Hope I helped...
    You did! Thanks!

    And thank all you guys, again, for taking time to analyse my ramblings!

    Edit: Ah! By the way, does anyone know how to put quotes inside quotes in replies? Thanks!
    Last edited by Viridian; 01-14-2011 at 09:56 AM. Reason: One more thing...

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    You sound a lot like an INFP to me, too. Not all INFP's are ready to speak out, and some INFJ's (like my grandmother) can speak out too much and meddle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    My ma's actually pretty damn light-hearted, kind of a foil to my perpetual neurotic self. My pa's the one playing "Poor Me" most of the time. Make of that what you will, as they say.

    haha yeah, sorry, I didn't word it well enough. My ISFP teacher and I can be emotionally stubborn in the sense that when our Fi values are crossed, we turn rigid as steel.

    To be honest, sometimes I'm downright reclusive; during vacation, I'm almost a hikkikomori. (Ironically, the most extraverted introverts, ISFPs, are Fi-dom rather than Fe-dom. Funny how that works.)

    Really? ISFPs? I've heard that one possible explanation is that their second fnctn is Extraverted Sensing, which results in spontaneous bursts of activity

    I should mention, though, I have a pretty proactive side. Rather than moaning, I decide to get things done, especially if other people are doing little more than complaining to the walls. (Poor walls. Will nobody pay attention to their feelings?) However, I have a bad habit of loitering around office doors for a pretty good while before sheepishly knocking, at least when I have extra time.

    hmmm im not sure how to explain this but I know that I like to try getting things done when everyone else turns a blind eye to them (enneatype 4's individualism perhaps?)

    That's funny... in another thread, IFJs were "voted" most likely to be hurt by public humiliation by several posters. Your response makes a lot of sense, though...

    LOL I think i can see how that'd happen... in my experience I have a heck of a hard time getting over a public screw-up, although I won't show it. INFJs may be more likely to project their feelings outward.

    That's a pretty solid point. Yay, I'm learning!



    That seems valid... though, like I said, I often butt heads (passive-aggressively) with my ESFJ father, who shares a dominant function with ENFJs.

    Have you met any ENFJs? Their Ni seems to know what people want from them, which makes them a great deal more charismatic. and i think less room to butt heads. although i've had my fair share of clashes with ExFJs

    Yeah, I get you, but INFPs are supposed to be the guys who "live by their values", no? Or is "not rocking the boat" a value? I've read that feelings are "sacred" and "non-negotiable" for IFPs, but I often try to detach and filter them in order not to be reckless or impulsive. Is that rare among INFPs?

    sorry, I think I didn't word that right. What I meant was that INFJs are more likely to advocate some random good idea they have.

    I think there's a difference between what an INFP deems as sacred, non-negotiable values, and what an INFP might feel in an intense moment. I don't really detach or filter my emotions, so to speak... I will suppress them, or direct them towards what I believe in. In rare cases, when a value's crossed, I will flare up with intense fury!! Most other times a value is crossed (still pretty rare), I'll turn rock stubborn, which only frustrates others if they're trying to get me to think/act/feel a certain way. I don't explode unless I'm cornered or severely provoked. I've read that INFPs generally act in a very roundabout, conflict-avoidant way, which is true and sometimes makes me seem cowardly compared to other types. However, I will stay true to my values.

    What can I say? I'm still learning and trying to figure out about myself :P


    I frequently envy purity, as I said before - in that sense, I'm quite the perfectionist. Are INFPs more "accepting" of their own faults and peccadillos?

    I think INFPs are very much their own worst critics when it comes to their values, morality, who they are as a person, etc. The INFJs I've met come off as more morally self-righteous sometimes...? But they can also be painfully perfectionistic... I guess just in a different way.

    My ESFJ dad hates this. "Why are you doing this to yourself?" Because I can, bub. Zip it. I'm not forbidding you from eating.

    LOL

    That seems to make sense. A lot of people characterize Fi as selfish, but I think it can be quite self-sacrificing and other-oriented. As the Ti/Te dichotomy shows, the barriers between Xi and Xe can be somewhat blurry.

    That's true. Fe is more external and visible and concrete, and Fi being introverted and hidden can easily be seen as selfish.

    Holy Mackerel, you're right! I, too, think I'm sp/sx, which could account for that. Thanks!

    You're welcome

    Really? I've heard they are the NTs of the NFs, so I thought they were more stoic. I, myself, can be cold with some people, even if it's not my intention. Honestly, for the longest time I thought I was an INTJ.

    My mom often projects a lot of emotion outward, and then when I ask, why are you getting so intense, she says she wasn't being intense at all... what I gather from this is using Fe to project her Ni ideas, and not really "feeling" the Fe internally. So they may come across as more emotional than they feel inside. INFPs are kind of the opposite in that respect.

    I remembered something... Vicky Jo said, in her main INFJ website, that the Tin Man represented NFs in general, not just INFJs. Catalysts (read:NFs), according to her, can develop "tin skin" and act cynical in order not to be hurt, squandering their potential for caring. Pretty sad.

    Makes sense.

    Yep. They say Fives are rational and cerebral and emotionless and whatnot, but the real stamp of the Five is the preoccupation with the demands that are going to be made from them - their time, their emotional energy, their knowledge... I think they can be quite cuddly when they decide it's okay to be.

    Hahaha indeed

    My anxiety is somewhat pervasive, especially now that I'm in a university. (It's kinda different from American colleges, though.) When someone announces, "Hey, we're gonna leave in a few minutes. You ready?", I'm all, "WHOAWHOAWHOA, why didn't you tell me beforehand?" I like knowing things in advance, so I can "plan" how I'm going to manage my time. My precious, precious time, that I could be wasting in reading Agony Booth recaps or listening to SSBB music on YouTube for the Nth time.

    I'd freak out too if someone announced out of the blue "we're leaving in a few minutes". I'm not sure if this is a J/P difference or just the introvert's need for more time to process stuff.

    You did! Thanks!

    And thank all you guys, again, for taking time to analyse my ramblings!
    No problem. Good luck with the rest of your MBTI journey

  7. #17
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    My ma's actually pretty damn light-hearted, kind of a foil to my perpetual neurotic self. My pa's the one playing "Poor Me" most of the time. Make of that what you will, as they say.

    haha yeah, sorry, I didn't word it well enough. My ISFP teacher and I can be emotionally stubborn in the sense that when our Fi values are crossed, we turn rigid as steel.
    I see this sometimes with my ma. I also see her use Te when she gets really peeved - it's scary and awesomely hilarious at the same time, like she's a comedian complaining about whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    To be honest, sometimes I'm downright reclusive; during vacation, I'm almost a hikkikomori. (Ironically, the most extraverted introverts, ISFPs, are Fi-dom rather than Fe-dom. Funny how that works.)

    Really? ISFPs? I've heard that one possible explanation is that their second fnctn is Extraverted Sensing, which results in spontaneous bursts of activity
    Most people who answered in this thread say so, at least. Typing ma was a real challenge, whereas I pegged down pa (ESFJ) pretty fast (when he told me he was an introvert, I was all, WTF? No, no, nononono).

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    I should mention, though, I have a pretty proactive side. Rather than moaning, I decide to get things done, especially if other people are doing little more than complaining to the walls. (Poor walls. Will nobody pay attention to their feelings?) However, I have a bad habit of loitering around office doors for a pretty good while before sheepishly knocking, at least when I have extra time.

    hmmm im not sure how to explain this but I know that I like to try getting things done when everyone else turns a blind eye to them (enneatype 4's individualism perhaps?)
    I may not be the best at getting people to lift their buttocks from the couch, but I'm usually the kind of guy who likes to make himself useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    That's funny... in another thread, IFJs were "voted" most likely to be hurt by public humiliation by several posters. Your response makes a lot of sense, though...

    LOL I think i can see how that'd happen... in my experience I have a heck of a hard time getting over a public screw-up, although I won't show it. INFJs may be more likely to project their feelings outward.
    Maybe... though I've heard a lot of INFJs described as coming across as "unemotional" (hence why they mistype as INTJs). Introverted types in general can come across as passive, I reckon. I should also mention that "shame" is a common emotion to me, though it's not so much about disappointing a collective than about either giving people the wrong impression, satisfying the wishes of those I care about or avoiding giving the impression that I am moody, ill-tempered or irrational (The Fiveness strikes again!)

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    That seems valid... though, like I said, I often butt heads (passive-aggressively) with my ESFJ father, who shares a dominant function with ENFJs.

    Have you met any ENFJs? Their Ni seems to know what people want from them, which makes them a great deal more charismatic. and i think less room to butt heads. although i've had my fair share of clashes with ExFJs
    I don't know a lot of people. Most of my perceptions of types comes either from fiction or from what I see in forums such as this one. So, no, I've never met an ENFJ (that I know of). I once though my therapist was an ENFJ, but I've begun to think she's an ENFP or ESFP.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    Yeah, I get you, but INFPs are supposed to be the guys who "live by their values", no? Or is "not rocking the boat" a value? I've read that feelings are "sacred" and "non-negotiable" for IFPs, but I often try to detach and filter them in order not to be reckless or impulsive. Is that rare among INFPs?

    sorry, I think I didn't word that right. What I meant was that INFJs are more likely to advocate some random good idea they have.

    I think there's a difference between what an INFP deems as sacred, non-negotiable values, and what an INFP might feel in an intense moment. I don't really detach or filter my emotions, so to speak... I will suppress them, or direct them towards what I believe in. In rare cases, when a value's crossed, I will flare up with intense fury!! Most other times a value is crossed (still pretty rare), I'll turn rock stubborn, which only frustrates others if they're trying to get me to think/act/feel a certain way. I don't explode unless I'm cornered or severely provoked. I've read that INFPs generally act in a very roundabout, conflict-avoidant way, which is true and sometimes makes me seem cowardly compared to other types. However, I will stay true to my values.
    I've got mixed feelings about that one. While I am conflict-avoidant and fancy myself as a bit of a coward (in that toe-the-line way), I don't explode per se; rather than turning hot-blooded, I turn cold-blooded when crossed, even becoming a bit of a bitter strategist. Every time I'm about to unleash anger, I ask myself, "And then what?". Vengeance shall be mine, in due time; for now, I shall retreat to my quarters, lurking silently and picturing, in my mind, the demise of my enemies. Luckily, I seldom get that Machiavellian, especially since I don't want to actually ruin someone's life or something. That's a no-no.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    I frequently envy purity, as I said before - in that sense, I'm quite the perfectionist. Are INFPs more "accepting" of their own faults and peccadillos?

    I think INFPs are very much their own worst critics when it comes to their values, morality, who they are as a person, etc. The INFJs I've met come off as more morally self-righteous sometimes...? But they can also be painfully perfectionistic... I guess just in a different way.
    I'm not sure how I come across to others in general, besides "intelligent" and "reserved". I can be pretty critical with certain people, but in general I'm pretty straightforward about my self-criticism, though I neither "whine" nor do I "fish for compliments". I'm all, "People tell me I'm good at writing (that's true, they do say that), but I'm not so sure myself. I mean, I don't even practice like the pros do."

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    That seems to make sense. A lot of people characterize Fi as selfish, but I think it can be quite self-sacrificing and other-oriented. As the Ti/Te dichotomy shows, the barriers between Xi and Xe can be somewhat blurry.

    That's true. Fe is more external and visible and concrete, and Fi being introverted and hidden can easily be seen as selfish.
    On the whole, though, I want people to perceive me as a "nice guy"; however, I don't believe in superficiality without substance, so I try to embody "nice guy"-ness, even if I feel overwhelmed way too often by others. My demeanor affects people, and theirs affects mine. I may show a fake smile, but I'm no phony.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    Really? I've heard they are the NTs of the NFs, so I thought they were more stoic. I, myself, can be cold with some people, even if it's not my intention. Honestly, for the longest time I thought I was an INTJ.

    My mom often projects a lot of emotion outward, and then when I ask, why are you getting so intense, she says she wasn't being intense at all... what I gather from this is using Fe to project her Ni ideas, and not really "feeling" the Fe internally. So they may come across as more emotional than they feel inside. INFPs are kind of the opposite in that respect.
    Actually, I kind of relate... my tone of voice and body language frequently betray my anger when people "trespass", like I said before. "Why are you angry at me?" "I'm not angry! Did I say I was? Look, I'm just under a little pressure, it's got nothing to do with you..." For this reason and others, I though once I was an Enneatype One. ("Hellfire" is one of my favorite Disney songs )

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    My anxiety is somewhat pervasive, especially now that I'm in a university. (It's kinda different from American colleges, though.) When someone announces, "Hey, we're gonna leave in a few minutes. You ready?", I'm all, "WHOAWHOAWHOA, why didn't you tell me beforehand?" I like knowing things in advance, so I can "plan" how I'm going to manage my time. My precious, precious time, that I could be wasting in reading Agony Booth recaps or listening to SSBB music on YouTube for the Nth time.

    I'd freak out too if someone announced out of the blue "we're leaving in a few minutes". I'm not sure if this is a J/P difference or just the introvert's need for more time to process stuff.
    Here's the funny part: my father is a pretty stubborn guy, so, when I don't want to go someplace new or travel or whatnot, and he also doesn't, he kind of assumes we have the same reason for being "stuck", so he wants me to "join his club", so to speak. Naturally, I say "No way, Jose", but he's got this idée fixe that I'm his clone or something, since I remind him of himself at my age.

    Quote Originally Posted by oncetheriver View Post
    No problem. Good luck with the rest of your MBTI journey
    Ditto for you, my fellow typology bedouin. May we both be blessed with longevity.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    By the way, I forgot to add this... I frankly don't identify a lot with the INFP characters I know, like Winston Smith from 1984 or Christian from Moulin Rouge. Quite a few of these characters seem pretty impulsive or ready to seek excitement, which is not how I roll. Do you suppose it has something to do with me being a 5w4 (or maybe a 4w5)? If so, do you know whether there are any notable INFP Fives in fiction? The only one that comes to mind is Strong Sad from the web cartoon series Homestar Runner...

    (Sorry for the doublepost. I'm a bad forum rookie. )

    EDIT: By the way, do warn me if this thread is getting too long for this subforum. I'm kinda clueless about those things.
    Last edited by Viridian; 01-19-2011 at 10:49 AM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Okay, only one more time, I swear. I haven't been sent a warning or anything, so I think I can do this. I know this all reeks of self-absorption on my part, but I still have a craving for feedback on my ideas, and boy, typing oneself is hard. I made a point of answering nearly every post in this thread, so I can see why it ends up being kind of confusing. As such, I'll try to organize my inquiries in order for those reading my rambling stream of words not to get lost in my fragmentary snippets of neurosis.

    Here goes nothing...

    1) Do Fi users always seek to be cognizant and accepting of their emotional urges and states? As a Type Five, I usually try to distance myself a bit so I don't overreact, even though I'm pretty sensitive, even more so, in some ways, than my ESFJ dad. I also kind of remain unaware of the passion - or bitterness - in my words, so I'm all, "What? What did I say to offend/hurt him/her?", when my tone of voice, for example, might have been a dead giveaway.

    2) Are all INFPs "whimsical"? I often find myself dubbed a "stick in the mud" or "rigid", because, though I'm not exactly Mr. Diligent towards schoolwork, I'm fussy and organized towards a lot of things ("plan" which books I'll read next, want to know how we'll spend the day during our vacation in advance, et cetera); I imagine Fiveness has something to do with it...

    3) Do INFPs "go with the flow" and "live in the moment"? I'm always thinking of the next step and, while I try my best not to interfere with anyone's plans, I desire to have some sort of control over my surroundings; that's part of why I thought I was an INTJ. I don't want to order people around, but I have an urge to draw certain boundaries. (Type Five again?)

    4) Can INFPs be perfectionistic? Though I'm somewhat lazy, I sometimes unconsciously anchor my sense of self-worth to external elements (grades, for instance), and I'm quick to put myself down even when others think I'm better than I think I am (though I don't whine or wallow in self-pity, as that kind of annoys people and makes me feel too capricious and overemotional).

    5) Does P/J play a big part in matters of procrastination? While I procrastinate quite a bit when it comes to schoolwork, I try to finish everything before the deadline to avoid humiliation and stern looks from teachers (and, of course, bad grades), and the schoolwork keeps haunting my thoughts, to the point of dampening the enjoyment of other activities (it's gotten to the point where I decided to read "for fun" only during vacations).

    6) Do both INFJs and INFPs experience feelings of shame sometimes? I HATE HATE HATE disappointing people. I feel selfish and worthless when I do, and I try my best to repair the damage, even though sometimes I feel a bit like a lost cause...

    7) Can INFPs be kind of neurotic? They are sometimes described as "placid until their values are violated", but I have a bit of shimmering anxiety about me, not exactly like an Enneatype Six's, but more like a strategic configuration of my personal resources ("What will be asked of me in the future?") or a corcern with my performance ("Am I being too selfish? Too lazy? Too cold? Too high-strung?"). I may appear aloof, but my mind is constantly whirring.

    8) Do all INFPs "explode"? When I get rattled by something, my reaction is more subdued, but my body language is a treacheous mistress. I get cold-blooded, not hot-blooded, when I get confrontational.

    9) Do INFPs always know what they want? Right now, I'm kind of "going with the plan" even though I'm unsure of whether journalism is a good career for me... I often ignore fleeting emotional states and keep my eyes on the (very blurry) "prize".

    10) Are INFJs always meddlesome? While I often ask people whether they need help with something, I'm not exactly a "Mary Worth" kinda guy. Not very good at giving advice, whereas Fe-dom Dad is very good at giving unsolicited advice, which I admit I sometimes need.

    11) Do some INFPs "toe the line"? While I don't always agree with the way some things are done, I'm not too eager to raise a ruckus or rock the boat unless I think it can change something. I do voice some complaints to trusted confidants, though, but it's mostly Te-ish stuff, like my issues with female shoes and dust covers.:rolleyes2:

    12) Do some INFPs keep their eyes close to the watch? I feel a tad uncomfortable if I don't know what time it is, and I insist on using my alarm clock even on weekends.

    13) Do INFPs often have "the courage of their convictions"? I'm not much of an activist, especially in a public platform. I'd rather detach and not be contentious; I'm more of a judge than an attorney, so to speak.

    14) Do people of either type sometimes feel like their mind is "overflowing"? It's hard to find "inner peace" when my inner landscape resembles an Irish pub filled with drunken bohemians.

    15) Do INFs withdraw under stress? I sometimes do, feeling kind of overwhelmed... My mind occasionally amuses me with fantasies of revenge. (Nothing too violent, though)

    16) Can INFP sometimes mistype themselves as Ennetype Ones? For a pretty long time I thougth I was one, but I realized my coping strategy resembled more the Five's withdrawal. Maybe there's a One in my Tritype...

    17) Are INFJs more likely to be "strategic" instead of impulsive and vice versa for INFPs? Like I mentioned, that's something I see in some fictional INFPs, and I'm a pretty deliberate guy...

    18) Can you think of any fictional (or real!) INFP Fives? Silly, I know, but fiction is, to some extent, one of my doorways to reality.

    Whew! That was quite a mouthful. But don't let it deceive you - I'm usually pretty laconic in RL!

    Thank you. I'm happy to be in a place chock full of friendly and intelligent people!

  10. #20
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    it would help if you took a cognitive function test and posted the results

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