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  1. #21
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    The ironic thing is, whenever I ask him a question, he gives me a long explanation, and then I end up saying "So, do you mean ____?" Even my INTJ grandfather was long-winded!


    But, in response to your theory...

    I think you might have a point, here. Perhaps children that develop Fe as Ni users are looking for acceptance in their community? Perhaps they fear some form of retaliation against them, so they want to be as accommodating as possible?

    Interesting concept though, that people develop judging functions as a defense/ coping mechanism.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    It isn't about me, I can assure you. Te mimicking Fe... this concept has me intrigued. What are some ways that Te can mimic Fe?

    .
    I've noticed this too. Way noticed. INTJs can be extremely polite. It's almost better, because it's more rational. But there is a big difference. INTJ polite is civil, measured, restrained, rational, and effective. INFJ polite has a warmth and a nurturing quality to it, even when the INFJ seems more T-ish. I can "feel" the difference. INTJ is a bit cooler, can even be chilly.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    The ironic thing is, whenever I ask him a question, he gives me a long explanation, and then I end up saying "So, do you mean ____?" Even my INTJ grandfather was long-winded!
    Then he wants you to understand.

  4. #24
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Yep, his politeness feels more from a restrained, civil point of view. He doesn't tend to bond instantly with people. Frustrates quite a few of my xSFJ friends. I can sense warmth in him, but it isn't out there in the open.
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  5. #25
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Then he wants you to understand.
    Indeed. When the "Aha!" moment happens, and I get what he's saying, it's a great feeling. I feel like I've learned something.
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    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    Yep, his politeness feels more from a restrained, civil point of view. He doesn't tend to bond instantly with people. Frustrates quite a few of my xSFJ friends. I can sense warmth in him, but it isn't out there in the open.
    Yeah yeah...they have warmth in them, surely. But with INFJ it seems more pertinent to either bond and/or understand, and not just with a few particular chosen people.

    I've noticed that INTJ can really want to teach, instruct, or help you in some practical way. Their advice-giving is more concise and directive. INFJ is going to be more concerned with the presentation of their advice, and they want to guide, and they stop and check that you're on the same page or they aren't offending you...I think it's interesting what you said in an earlier post about the children, about you having all those particular ideas on how things should go for them, and him being more detached and letting them be but wanting to teach them. That makes sense.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    Indeed. When the "Aha!" moment happens, and I get what he's saying, it's a great feeling. I feel like I've learned something.
    The difference between stating your opinion and explainig it is, for me, like the difference between evaluating a picture and giving an accurate picture description: while the conclusion is the same, the latter is much more laborious. Most people, however, need the description to see that the conclusion is correct.

  8. #28
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    There is a poetry to this thread that is beautiful.

    I have seen none other like it...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    The ironic thing is, whenever I ask him a question, he gives me a long explanation, and then I end up saying "So, do you mean ____?" Even my INTJ grandfather was long-winded!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Then he wants you to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    Indeed. When the "Aha!" moment happens, and I get what he's saying, it's a great feeling. I feel like I've learned something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The difference between stating your opinion and explainig it is, for me, like the difference between evaluating a picture and giving an accurate picture description: while the conclusion is the same, the latter is much more laborious. Most people, however, need the description to see that the conclusion is correct.
    I was going to offer my own take on the matter, but I'm not sure it will surpass this.

    All I will add is that there is Te-getting-things-done mode, and then there is NiTeFi-explanatory mode.

    Those are two very different things, and, imo, are related to the two modes Nicodemus just explained.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    Te mimicking Fe... this concept has me intrigued. What are some ways that Te can mimic Fe?
    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I've noticed this too. Way noticed. INTJs can be extremely polite. It's almost better, because it's more rational. But there is a big difference. INTJ polite is civil, measured, restrained, rational, and effective. INFJ polite has a warmth and a nurturing quality to it, even when the INFJ seems more T-ish. I can "feel" the difference. INTJ is a bit cooler, can even be chilly.
    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    Yep, his politeness feels more from a restrained, civil point of view. He doesn't tend to bond instantly with people. Frustrates quite a few of my xSFJ friends. I can sense warmth in him, but it isn't out there in the open.
    If he were an INFJ, he'd probably get along with the SFJ friends just fine...

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yeah yeah...they have warmth in them, surely. But with INFJ it seems more pertinent to either bond and/or understand, and not just with a few particular chosen people.

    I've noticed that INTJ can really want to teach, instruct, or help you in some practical way. Their advice-giving is more concise and directive. INFJ is going to be more concerned with the presentation of their advice, and they want to guide, and they stop and check that you're on the same page or they aren't offending you...I think it's interesting what you said in an earlier post about the children, about you having all those particular ideas on how things should go for them, and him being more detached and letting them be but wanting to teach them. That makes sense.
    Yeah, well explained Marm.

    To answer your question Curious (sorry, somehow forgot to...): I think there's two ways of looking at it. The description Marm has given actually touches on both.

    First, there's Te's recognition of Fe codes of conduct, or standards of behavior. The Te-user won't necessarily be drawn to the standard in the same way as an Fe-user, but they can recognize it, and choose whether or not to abide by it; second, there's the Te-user's desire for things to go smoothly, efficiently, and without a hitch, and this can either by itself, or in conjunction with the first, develop into the sort of behavior amongst INTJs described by Marm. It often seems to be tinged with a sort of honor or integrity, which, in my opinion, has to do with all of the above, plus a bit of Fi chiming in, declaring that what the individual is doing is in accord with their authentic being.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    But, in response to your theory...

    I think you might have a point, here. Perhaps children that develop Fe as Ni users are looking for acceptance in their community? Perhaps they fear some form of retaliation against them, so they want to be as accommodating as possible?
    Awesome that you mentioned that independently, cuz the bolded is exactly what I was thinking.

    I actually wrote it down, but then deleted it, as I didn't want to derail the thread by unnecessarily attacking Fe.

    I hadn't even gotten to thinking of the bolded and underlined, but it would seem to be accurate as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    Interesting concept though, that people develop judging functions as a defense/ coping mechanism.
    Oy, there Ti! Don't start making first principles too fast!

    I haven't thought about this enough with regards to the other types (nor even Ni-doms), so I don't want to start trumpeting its truth too quickly...

  9. #29
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yeah yeah...they have warmth in them, surely. But with INFJ it seems more pertinent to either bond and/or understand, and not just with a few particular chosen people.

    I've noticed that INTJ can really want to teach, instruct, or help you in some practical way. Their advice-giving is more concise and directive. INFJ is going to be more concerned with the presentation of their advice, and they want to guide, and they stop and check that you're on the same page or they aren't offending you...I think it's interesting what you said in an earlier post about the children, about you having all those particular ideas on how things should go for them, and him being more detached and letting them be but wanting to teach them. That makes sense.
    Yeah, INTJs I've interacted with have seemed the type to want to educate the kids with practical advice for life. When it comes to advice, especially when it comes to figuring out a career path for someone, I feel like a damn Harry Potter sorting hat! Can't seem to fight the Fe instinct.

    Is it just me, or do some INFJs have a chaotic system for getting things done... it may seem convoluted as hell, and inefficient, but it gets the job done. Tendency to over-complicate things. INTJs, on the other hand, are much more concise in getting the job done... it seems much more stepwise, less haphazard.
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    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  10. #30
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The difference between stating your opinion and explainig it is, for me, like the difference between evaluating a picture and giving an accurate picture description: while the conclusion is the same, the latter is much more laborious. Most people, however, need the description to see that the conclusion is correct.
    Figuring out what the picture means from an overall perspective is a beautiful thing. Everything ties up in a package of information. The fun part is sending the package to another person, and they unwrap the information, and then they get it in the same way you do. One of the reasons why I love educating people, when the lights go on in their head and they understand a concept. Trouble is, I find that describing things to minute details can be very painstaking, tedious even. It can be stressful, because I can get so caught up in the details that I fail to see the big picture, and it doesn't feel natural!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




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