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  1. #11
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    For Nines, doesn't the direction of disintegration go toward Six? So if you're a nine, you're going to exhibit Six-like traits from time to time.
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  2. #12
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I have the same confusion on 6 too, but I'm confused between 4, rather than 9. I can relate to the counterphobic examples you mentioned though. Maybe in a different way. Long story. I don't think I live with a lot of fear or need assurances from multiple people though. There are problem areas where I can kind of get that way, but it sounds different.

    Not sure where I'm going here. If it's more persistent for you, maybe you are a 6.
    Sounds like me. But maybe that has to do with being counterphobic? It's like I live my life with a lot of fear, the fear that things could go wrong (especially for important stuff), but it's not around EVERYTHING. Like I said before, I'm either really afraid and it dominates me, or I am aware of it and just shrug it off and ignore it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petra Pan View Post
    He has similar vibe, but if I had to pick what its: groundness.
    But he's intuitive for sure. INFP for sure.
    He just appears more S than average N, because he is 6, so he is steady, responsible, loyal, modest.... I actually heard INFP 6s look more S because facts make them feel safer. It could be your case?
    And now I remembered : the way he approaches relationship reminded me a lot of you (so much i know how you do it).

    This is exactly how he explains it.
    Interesting. And yes! Facts DEFINITELY make me feel safer (maybe 6w5?).

    How does he approach relationships though? Since for me it goes like- they feel right to me, so I get comfortable and can have a decent acquaintanceship with them. Then I just basically wing it and ask them out, am very flirty and physical, to see if that feels right. Then I get all lovey dovey when that wears off and do all of the romantic stuff. I'd say that's all to see if they are still trustworthy, trust me, all that good stuff. I'm just testing to see if they don't reject me before I show them who I really am.

    And I know he is not 9 because he likes to argue and fight... I agree you could be confusing merging with sx, and being Fi dom so you value close relationship above all else.
    If you know me then I LOVE to argue and fight.

    anyway. I am pretty sure guy from the video on infjorinfp site, Pete, who is INFP, is also 6 - maybe you could check video to see if you can relate.
    link : http://www.infjorinfp.com/docs/Inter...outFeeling.htm
    I'll check that out after work.

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    For Nines, doesn't the direction of disintegration go toward Six? So if you're a nine, you're going to exhibit Six-like traits from time to time.
    Sixes also integrate toward Nine. 9's, 6's, and 3's are all connected through integration and disintegration.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #13
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Well, I suppose looking at the triads more closely would help:

    http://personalitycafe.com/articles/...am-triads.html
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  4. #14
    violaine
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    I'm pouring through some of my enneagram books and there is a section on misidentifications. 6s and 9s are apparently frequently mistyped as both are concerned with security and maintaining a status quo, take a modest view of themselves and are family oriented.

    The difference comes with their affect. 9s like to remain easygoing and unflappable. They work steadily at their tasks but show little sign of being upset by the ups and downs of the day.

    6s cannot easily disgusie their feelings. The grow agitated more readily and become rattled by mishaps. While 9s can remains silent within their own inner peace, 6s need to vent periodically with others to discharge their fears and doubts. 6s are more obviouly nervous and defensive when they believe there are problems. 9s remain strangely bland in the face of problems, although beneath the surface which may look pleasant there is a stubborn resistance and unwillingness to be upset or troubled by conflicts or problems. Apparently, they need to test people before they let them get close.

    9s may also be protected by disengagement of their attention but they tend to be trusting of others, almost to a fault.

    Under stress, when moving in the Direction of Disintegration, 9s will act out some of the behaviors of average 6s. Which may lead to mistyping. But these periods of overt anxiety do not last long and as soon as possible, 9s revert to their more easygoing approach to things.

    What do you think about that comparison?

  5. #15
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    It's interesting because after have seen some interviews of 50 Cent, I thought he was a 9w8 Sx/Sp, quiet, nice, strong and grounded with actual sexual presence. But then I read he was actually a 6w5 Sx/Sp. I've mistyped other 6w5 as 9w8, they seem quite look-a-like, so you can be mistyped also. The 5 wing increases the connection to 9 at the security point and so the mistyping is even more easy. But I'm wondering if your worrying is not narcotisation actually. You said, for example, that your self-pres instinct make you think "I worry about that" and also "I don't need that". That seems more 9. Maybe it is because of the 5 wing. 9 are easily content with what they have while sexual 6 need to be strong, beautiful and desirable to be secured. 9s have a positive view about life but dislike insecurity, 6s have a pessimistic view about life and see insecurity as a normal thing from the human condition, wich must be challenged. 9s are confident and seek for merging, 6s are misgiving and seek for protection.

    Also, if you are a 6, I think you are more a 6w5 than a 6w7, more grounded and abrasive, not enough glamorous and versatile.

    Maybe you should be compare famous examples from diferent types and see wich one seem the most like you? I don't know enough famous males 9w8 Sx/Sp, but for females:

    [youtube=5wmdD0ghNF4]Pat Benatar 9w8 Sx/Sp[/youtube]
    [youtube=pnkuEeQBOo4]Mariah Carey 9w8 Sx/Sp[/youtube]
    [youtube=B5gyAYZM8b4]Alicia Keys 9w8 Sx/Sp[/youtube]
    [youtube=CXthv4fBwCI]Beyoncé 9w8 Sx/Sp[/youtube]
    [youtube=4rKmQ61gLYY]Rihanna 9w8 Sx/Sp[/youtube]

    [youtube=hvt_yLUV95U]Michelle Pfeiffer 6w5 Sx/Sp[/youtube]
    [youtube=f-DFKEQmAKg]Naomi Campbell 6w5 Sx/Sp[/youtube]
    [youtube=VQ5bp8X5elY]Mary J. Blige 6w5 Sx/Sp[/youtube]
    [youtube=Li9bB_p9ByM]Keyshia Cole 6w5 Sx/Sp[/youtube]
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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  6. #16
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    [...] And also "I don't need that". That seems more 9. Maybe it is because of the 5 wing. 9 are easily content with what they have while sexual 6 need to be strong, beautiful and desirable to be secured. 9s have a positive view about life but dislike insecurity, 6s have a pessimistic view about life and see insecurity as a normal thing from the human condition, wich must be challenged. 9s are confident and seek for merging, 6s are misgiving and seek for protection.
    Things like this always places me into the E9 over the E6 category. As someone who scores relatively high on the nine's traits, I'm more prone to being 'insecure' about my own insecurity, fear the feeling of fear, stress about stress and so forth. Because this implies I may actually have to get in touch with my instinctual side and needs, which I often overlook. Enneagram 6's, from my point of view, express their concerns with less reservation and more certainty, so you can typically grasp their anxiety much quicker than a 9's. For them, as Speed Gavroche mentioned, it's "a normal thing from the human condition."

    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    The difference comes with their affect. 9s like to remain easygoing and unflappable. They work steadily at their tasks but show little sign of being upset by the ups and downs of the day.

    6s cannot easily disgusie their feelings. The grow agitated more readily and become rattled by mishaps. While 9s can remains silent within their own inner peace, 6s need to vent periodically with others to discharge their fears and doubts. 6s are more obviously nervous and defensive when they believe there are problems. 9s remain strangely bland in the face of problems, although beneath the surface which may look pleasant there is a stubborn resistance and unwillingness to be upset or troubled by conflicts or problems.
    Naturally the degree varies with MBTI type, but I agree with this overall trend.

    Misidentifications of Enneagram Personality Types

    Fourth, types are easily confused when they are thought of as narrow entities—as if Nines, for example, were always peaceful and serene. If this is our idea of Nines, then when we encounter someone who is occasionally irritable or aggressive, we may automatically conclude that the person cannot be a Nine.

    While peacefulness and serenity are two of the principal traits of healthy Nines, there are also times when Nines can be angry, aggressive, and anxious. However, they virtually always think of themselves as peaceful and return to various forms of peacefulness (for instance, passivity and complacency) as their "home base." And just as important, when Nines are aggressive, angry, or anxious, they manifest these traits in distinctively "Nine-ish" ways. For example, they express anger as a "coolness" toward the person they are angry with—while denying that they are at all angry. Even rather severe outbursts of aggression can erupt suddenly and subside quickly.

    To make subtle distinctions such as these, we must learn to discern the overall style and motivations for each type rather than see individual traits in isolation.

    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/misid/
    ( To the bolded: ) That's me to the core. Add the E1 into the mix, and I'm completely prone to the aforementioned scenario.

    So I don't think avoidance of conflict fully defines the e9 (especially if they have a strong 8 or 1 wing) -- it's how the individual approaches them that does.

    Nine With an 8 Wing

    Awakened Nines with an 8 wing have a modest, steady, receptive core. They are charged by the dynamism of 8 - when focused on goals they often have great force of will. Get things done, make good leaders. May have an animal magnetism of which they are only partly aware. Can seem highly centered, take what they do seriously but remain unimpressed with themselves. 8 wing can bring a strong internal sense of direction. Relatively fearless and highly intuitive. Generally not intellectual unless they have it in their background. When more entranced, they manifest the contradictions of the two styles expressing them in sequence. Could be passively amiable like a Nine and then turn horribly blunt like an 8. One moment they are opinionated or nasty, next moment kindly and supportive. Often don't hear their voices when angry. Can have a sharp, grating edge. May be slow to anger and then explode. Or angry but don't know it; may confuse being assertive with being rude. Placidly callous - both styles support numbness. Tactless and indiscriminate and indiscreet. May be unwittingly disloyal, spilling everyone's secrets. Sexual confusion, sometimes they are driven by lust.

    Six With a 5 Wing

    Sixes with a 5 wing are generally introverted and somewhat intellectual. When healthy, they often have many realms of interest as well as surprising competencies and skills. May have an original and idiosyncratic point of view. Can be bookish; some are interested in history or feel rooted in the past or related to a long tradition. Also good at predicting the future. May test potential friends for a long time but once you're in, you're in - a friend for life. When more entranced, they may project a willed remoteness. Have a "tip of the iceberg" quality - they show little but you sense hidden dimensions, intensity and activity. Tension between needing to be seen and withdrawing for protection. Might act arrogant or cryptic or cynical when afraid. When phobic, can be diplomatic and say things without saying them. Entranced counterphobics are either cool and loners or argumentative, tending towards violence. Can brood over injustices to them, entertain conspiracy theories, spend time alone building cases. Paranoia in private. May like secretive behind-the-scenes group activity. Sneaky vengeance, passive/aggressive toward others, self-attacking and self-destructive at home.

    http://webspace.webring.com/people/cl/lifexplore/
    ==============================

    How Nines See Sixes

    Relationships with Sixes can be very positive for Nines. Sixes are quite aware of their own boundaries, so they tend not to be a threat to the Nine's fear of losing a sense of self. In spite of Nines' defensiveness and criticisms when they feel discounted, they want very much to connect with others and be appreciated for their ideas. Sixes, with their personal radar, can be very sensitive to a Nine's needs. When this pair relates with mutuality, Nines become more known to themselves because of Sixes' honesty. Sixes typically balance Nines' more laid-back style with a great deal of energy. They're usually more spontaneous and open with their feelings than Nines, so the Nine is less likely to withdraw from potential conflict. This is a partnership where fighting can be fun. In general, the Six's activeness stimulates action in the Nine. The Nine often admires the Six's willingness to "name" things, to state the obvious when others are unwilling to risk confrontation. Nines can become unhappy with surrounding circumstances or people in their environment and not know how to express this directly, whereas Sixes are more likely to express their feelings. In fact, the Six's tendency towards self-disclosure is a wonderful model for the Nine. This is particularly true when the two have a conflict: the Nine can learn from the Six's active willingness to take some risks and resolve their differences.

    How Sixes See Nines

    Sixes seek the serenity and calm of Nines; when they learn to be more centered and self-referencing, they reduce self-questioning and promote peacefulness. So the Six/Nine partnership will feel emotionally complementary. Nines will reflect thoroughly on an issue, reviewing many perspectives before acting (if at all); Sixes are more likely to act without a great deal of reflection. Merging their strengths can lead to a partnership characterized by reflective action. Out of their power-under perspective, Sixes are on the alert for a "take-over," and tend to feel safe with Nines, who are not overtly interested in holding power. Because Nines are calm and reassuring, they provide a model for living with more ease and tend to balance the Six's emotional intensity. Seeing the Nine as a "safe harbor," Sixes trust that they're liked and allow their deeper selves to show. This can strengthen their belief in themselves and help them be their best selves, to dream bigger dreams. When things are going well, Nines are generous with their praise of the Six's good qualities and contributions, which makes the Six less likely to look for a hidden agenda and less defensive about discussing areas for improvement or greater self-awareness. Also, Nines can help Sixes to be less challenging or doubting of others, by offering alternative ways to view a situation.

    http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/rel96.htm
    If you ask me, BC, I think you're a 9w8. You also have a 6 in your tri-type, so that could partially influence your interactions and motivations.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    I'd go with 6 for you BlackCat, maybe i am biased bc of the fact that I like changes , but... just like general vibe, you are not so calm at all on the inside... just my 2 cents.

    edit: maybe the best way to tell is do you relate more to soul child of 9(3) or of 6(9)? many people figured this way for sure.
    Last edited by Chloe; 10-24-2010 at 09:44 AM.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    How does he approach relationships though? Since for me it goes like- they feel right to me, so I get comfortable and can have a decent acquaintanceship with them. Then I just basically wing it and ask them out, am very flirty and physical, to see if that feels right. Then I get all lovey dovey when that wears off and do all of the romantic stuff. I'd say that's all to see if they are still trustworthy, trust me, all that good stuff. I'm just testing to see if they don't reject me before I show them who I really am
    hm, he has really good trust in people. We became good friends very soon, because he chose who he wants to befriend and then gaves that trust, takes a risk. He is not naive, but willingly gives trust... What I notice is also he takes step-by-step approach with relationship, ex., I as an N am more bigger steps, more neurotic also, he is so calm in that ..controlled way.. a bit planned way of dealing with relationships. Like, we are in this process together, dont worry, step by step... he invests small portions, and then another small portion... but it all goes very smoothly. He amazed me how skilled he is actually.
    and he has that atypical for NPs groundness, SJ-like, .. responsibilty, modesty. Appears more S, as I said, but no way he's SP or SJ, simply no way. He also matches normal INFP profiles perfectly.


    If you know me then I LOVE to argue and fight.
    Same with him.


    ** think about; what is your motivation ? i dont know enough about 9s and 6s.. but he has motivation to ... stay stable. definately. like, remain productive. responsible. SAFE. it's very obvious with him. That SJ-like groundness, that I struggle to achieve.. I am too much floathing around, he is so .. responsible.
    I dont sound in love i hope

  9. #19
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    I have my doubts whether six is a proper enneagram type. In that respect that it masks a lot of descriptions into itself and then six rather than an enneagram variant is an onset of personality and health loops. Whether the positive and negative aspects are indeed representative of the positive and negative aspects as it is assumed. Whether its a true representative in the way like others are because so much of this could be every other type until you balance your state of being, this could be a temporary identifier.

  10. #20
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Three is usually the one questioned as being a type.

    I think with six, it seems strange, because, as I have pointed out, it is Supine, which is not a familiar temperament known about anciently, and thus also would seem to be a strange combination of traits (basically, the Melancholic's extreme reservation with the Sanguine's extreme want for people, and the Phlegmatic's overall amiableness, yet can at times become aggressive like the Choleric). Only the five temperament system recognizes it; while the other ennegram types look like combinations of the anciently recognized four temperaments, so they seem more familiar.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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