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Thread: ENFJ vs ESFJ

  1. #31
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    How do ExFJs experience their tertiary function (ESFJ=Ne, ENFJ=Se)? Has anyone ever heard of function deterioration? When you connect Fe-Ne and Fe-Se they give very different results. Fe-Se tends to be more real-world focused and there is a practicality and need for impact involved in this dynamic.

    As for how I experience my tertiary, it's always interesting to me that people talk of Se as an adventure-seeking function, when the SPs I know seem to be reality-seeking. Reality can take the form of physical thrills, but I think that depends on how it's focused. I'm entering into a period where I want to physically experience new things but it's not as refined and graceful as an SP would, it's basically like gorging yourself on temporal things and then throwing up the next morning. Hangover sucks.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #32
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    I'm an ENFJ and my sister is an ESFJ and we are only 1 year apart in age.

    We look very much alike on the outside and do have much in common. I echo some of the posts here when I say that the biggest difference is how we see people. My sister is very concrete in her assesments. She looks at the results of a persons effort and then determines if that (concrete) result is acceptable or not. I look at WHY a person did or did not acheive a result and then try to address the (intangible) root issue.

    I basically see the "cause and effect" of almost everything. I would say that most people would say I am "softer" than her. Sometimes this comes in handy, but if you are looking someone who is an extemely effective task master, you are going to want to check in with my sis
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  3. #33
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    Lots of great stuff here...ESFJs and ENFJs have very different vibes...the focus of an ESFJ is on the past and present. The focus of an ENFJ is on the future and present. As a result, despite similar surface affability, ESFJs tend to be far less dissatisfied with the now than ENFJs, far more comfortable with maintaining "what is" rather than actualizing "what can be". The changes ESFJs tend to push for tend to be typically concrete SJ improvements--weight loss, more money, a promotion, etc. The changes ENFJs push for will invariably take on an abstract, humanistic, idealistic bent involving such concepts as self-actualization, interpersonal growth, and all sorts of things that may strike SJs as a little bit wacky...

    ENFJs lead and motivate
    ESFJs manage and nurture

    ESFJs:
    YouTube - Jack Lalanne - Unhappy people
    YouTube - Richard Simmons visits the CISN Country morning crew
    YouTube - Top gear Jay Leno interview

    ENFJs:
    YouTube - JOAN BAEZ "For All We know" - 1979
    YouTube - Sugar Ray Leonard Interview
    YouTube - Bill Clinton Clip

  4. #34
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Lots of great stuff here...ESFJs and ENFJs have very different vibes...the focus of an ESFJ is on the past and present. The focus of an ENFJ is on the future and present. As a result, despite similar surface affability, ESFJs tend to be far less dissatisfied with the now than ENFJs, far more comfortable with maintaining "what is" rather than actualizing "what can be". The changes ESFJs tend to push for tend to be typically concrete SJ improvements--weight loss, more money, a promotion, etc. The changes ENFJs push for will invariably take on an abstract, humanistic, idealistic bent involving such concepts as self-actualization, interpersonal growth, and all sorts of things that may strike SJs as a little bit wacky...

    ENFJs lead and motivate
    ESFJs manage and nurture
    I know you gave examples of some "concrete improvements" are, but even the "abstract" bent that ENFJs have need to manifest themselves concretely.

    Let's take a fairly simple example. An ESFJ and ENFJ decide to run a marathon. Are you saying that an ESFJ wouldn't run for self-actualization and an ENFJ wouldn't run just to run? When you throw concepts like interpersonal growth in the NF pile...IDK you just can't make it that simple.

    I work with many ESFJs and I may be one of them. To say my motivations are like "Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side" simple...it just seems to me that no one really tries to get to know people well at all to really see what makes them work. If people did, they wouldn't make statements like that. I can tell you truthfully, that if I sense you were one of the type of people that needed great profundity and for me to be quoting philosophers in order to respect my intelligence and depth, all you'd ever get from me is conversations about Dancing with the Stars or American Idol. That's all you'd see, that's all you'd have to form an opinion about me, and you'd be dead wrong.

    People find their identity in different things. Some people find their most salient characteristics to be their career, or a hobby, by being a parent, or their belief system. Sometimes it seems to me that people rank the worthiness of salient traits, like someone who wants to be successful at their job doesn't have as much depth as someone who wants to watch waves crash against the shore and write poetry about it. Someone wanting to be successful at their job could very well find a cure of cancer or AIDS. I think it's more what people do with their defining characteristics than the characteristic themselves.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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