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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Ah true. But then, you're a jaguar. You eat sheep.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Being a J is impossible with my horrid messiness and punctuality issues. Sure, I do like closure, plans and penned-in schedules, but look inside my book bag, and GAH!! Receipts everywhere! Pens astray! Mints all over the place because the packet spilled inside, checks stubs carelessly stashed... it's absolutely disgusting. Though I always find what I need. I just never open the thing if anyone could see inside.
    I've known NTJs to be late and messy. Just depends on priorities and how strong that Te is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    A little derail: so does that mean that you think that Ni is better at not jumping from idea to idea and clarifying? Just out of curiosity.
    Ne and Ni are both abstract perceiving processes. Any clarifying is done by the judging functions.

  3. #63
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    That's what I thought because when I read that I was thinking how my Ni is not articulate whatsoever.... I just wanted to know what HE thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    A little derail: so does that mean that you think that Ni is better at not jumping from idea to idea and clarifying? Just out of curiosity.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I've known NTJs to be late and messy. Just depends on priorities and how strong that Te is.


    The whole J vs P thing really needs to be better figured out in the testing...

    It causes all the noobs to totally misunderstand what J and P mean...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    A little derail: so does that mean that you think that Ni is better at not jumping from idea to idea and clarifying? Just out of curiosity.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Ne and Ni are both abstract perceiving processes. Any clarifying is done by the judging functions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    That's what I thought.... I just wanted to know WHAT he thought.
    Mmmmm... I think how one perceives certainly has an effect on how one presents... and, as such, Ni and Ne doms will present their thoughts differently, with Ni doms certainly being better at "not jumping from idea to idea"... as for "clarification"... that's a little more difficult... some Ni doms probably suck at clarifying, depending, as MacGuffin pointed out, on the level of development of their aux Je function (and possibly their tert Ji function [particularly in the case of tert Ti for an INFJ -- probably less so for a tert Fi for an INTJ -- as T functions are probably more important for clarifying one's thoughts]).

  5. #65
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    That makes sense. I can picture that. I am an ENFJ with really strong Ni and use an unskilled version of Ti a lot. It makes sense for me that that's why I have difficulty in articulating things. I can't really say any conclusive thoughts about other strong Ni users though.

  6. #66
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    ^ I could see that too, since Ti is the last of your primary functions.

    But that certainly doesn't explain me. It should be 2nd nature to me. Half the time I'm very good at making my message understood. The other half...eh.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    That makes sense. I can picture that. I am an ENFJ with really strong Ni and use an unskilled version of Ti a lot. It makes sense for me that that's why I have difficulty in articulating things. I can't really say any conclusive thoughts about other strong Ni users though.
    Yeah, you guys are the biggest for me...

    I just can't imagine starting with Fe-dom, going to Ni-aux, and then also having Ti-inferior...

    It's just...

    And not in a bad way; just in a kinda way...

  8. #68
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    LMAO, I totally agree. It can make for a pretty strange personality sometimes. One minute, let's be really nice to the guy (Fe). The next minute, Whoa, that guy seems like major creepo (Ni). The minute after that, "well, he's not a threat... he's just freaking idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about (Ti). It's quite lovely. Of course, there's a bit of hyperbole in there.

  9. #69
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    from your description, you almost sounded more J. i have heard it articulated that for some Js, it's important to be organized in the mind but not necessarily with outer things, so a J could be outwardly messy as long as they are organized within. J/P is more about whether you feel comfortable and right making decisions and building on them (J) or whether you'd rather have as much information as possible and put off decision, leaving options open (P). two other thoughts to clear up ENTP vs ENTJ...

    1. i think the nature of Ni is to be confusing, so don't be too concerned about that.

    lord knows the nature of Ne is to be confusing too, it's chaotic as all get-out. i would almost ask this: are you more familiar with overlapping contradictory ideas, or ideas which you feel are right but are not always sure how you got there? (white text below)

    overlapping contradictory ideas = Ne
    ideas you feel are right but not sure how you got there = Ni


    2. compare:

    Quote Originally Posted by ENTJ
    Dominant: Extraverted thinking (Te)
    Te organizes and schedules ideas and the environment to ensure the efficient, productive pursuit of objectives. Te seeks logical explanations for actions, events, and conclusions, looking for faulty reasoning and lapses in sequence. [15]
    Te is the most developed function for ENTJs. Te involves ordering, structuring, specifying, and applying logic to situations. ENTJs tend to be endowed with strong organizational and coordination skills. Te is also focused on performing a task in the most efficient and productive manner, which generally gives ENTJs the ability to direct and marshal their environment according to work-specific needs. Further, Te contributes to the ENTJs' ability to accumulate relevant data while analyzing that data for factual accuracies and impersonal applications.
    Auxiliary: Introverted intuition (Ni)
    Attracted to symbolic actions or devices, Ni synthesizes seeming paradoxes to create the previously unimagined. These realizations come with a certainty that demands action to fulfill a new vision of the future, solutions that may include complex systems or universal truths. [16]
    Ni allows ENTJs to process information and events through impressions, possibilities, and meanings, thereby helping provide ENTJs with a sense of the future. Ni contributes to the ability to grasp patterns and plans. Complex, generalized information is processed through Ni to add clarity and check for imperfections. Ni supports Te in ENTJs' pursuit of goals; ENTJs use Ni to improve a situation to make it more useful to themselves.
    Tertiary: Extraverted sensing (Se)
    Se focuses on the experiences and sensations of the immediate, physical world. With an acute awareness of the present surroundings, it brings relevant facts and details to the forefront and may lead to spontaneous action. [17]
    In ENTJs, Se is a basic function, less developed than Te or Ni. Se helps ENTJs effectively act upon their immediate surroundings. ENTJs scan their physical environment to observe where improvements can be made, and Se is integral to the application of Te and Ni to meet those standards. Se gathers detailed data from the immediate experience to expand the ENTJs' knowledge base and heighten the ENTJs' sense of reality upon taking action.
    vs
    Quote Originally Posted by ENTP
    Dominant: Extraverted intuition (Ne)
    Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings, using “what if” questions to explore alternatives, allowing multiple possibilities to coexist. This imaginative play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to form a new whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.[20] Ne allows the ENTP to effortlessly identify complex interrelationships between ideas, people, and things that are often invisible to most other personality types.[21]
    Auxiliary: Introverted thinking (Ti)
    Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.[22] In the ENTP, Ti analyzes the constant stream of information that Ne provides. Ti develops structure and reconciles any inconsistencies in the ENTP's belief system. However, Ti cannot match the activity of Ne, which leads the ENTP to juggle multiple projects and theoretical enterprises at any given time, in various stages of completion.[21]
    Tertiary: Extraverted feeling (Fe)
    Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior. Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject’s own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others.[23] When Fe is well developed, the ENTP can foster goodwill in others, and can be seen as quite charming and loyal. When it is not well developed, the ENTP can be seen as aloof and unconcerned with other people's feelings. In most ENTPs, weakness of the tertiary function can be observed in its inconsistency or lack of endurance.[21]
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    This topic has been ridiculously well covered in other threads, but a great image to think of the difference between Ne and Ni (and probably even Se and Si) is that of a sphere.

    Ni is like the inner surface area of that sphere, focusing in on the central focal point.

    Ne is like that central focal point, looking out all over the place at the inner surface area of the sphere.

    As such, Ni is good at focusing; Ne is good at connecting disparate parts.

    The con for each is that Ni will tend to focus on its point in the "selfish" manner of an introverted function, while Ne will jump from one topic to the next without necessarily coming to any resolution on any one of them (and possibly not seeing the thing as a whole).

    Hence, Ni people are often accused of tunnel-vision, while Ne people are accused of not being able to focus.

    Both accusations are true to some extent, varying by degree from individual to individual.
    nice description. though - i think the problem with Ne isn't possibly not seeing things as a whole, but that not seeing things as a whole is almost impossible. it can be really hard to separate one course out of the whole... plus it often entails carry contradicting thoughts/beliefs/feelings. i don't personally ever find that to be a problem, but it gets others really confused and annoyed sometimes. :blushing:

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    3. I'm really not that verbally articulate, which is why I suspected that I was an F.


    Seriously??????

    Woman, have you not heard an INTP try to tell a story?

    No, but really, articulation aka 'being able to speak intelligently' has nothing to do with being an F or a T. Being articulate, quick witted, speaking well on the fly - those are traits often attributed to ENFPs.

    That's it, you are totally OUT of the ENFP club!!! Even as a prospect! Back to ESFJ land with you!!! :steam:

    Kidding.


    If I have to break down and explain a complex question I have about something, or if I have to explain a detailed/involved situation to somebody, I always verbally leave out gaps or explain things in ways that require the listener to request clarification. It makes sense in my head, and to the other person after a few clarifications, but not when I try to shoot out my thoughts immediately.
    That could be Ne popping off.

    Also, again, you are pretty young. Age/maturity and the development of your tert + functions will make your type much more easily identifiable to yourself.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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