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  1. #1
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    Default I am just an atypical INTP or what?

    Actually I don't know if I am an INTP or not. That's my (very) tentative guess. I read the INTP descriptions and much of it fits but I am more F and J like compared to other INTPs, I think. On tests I pretty much cycle between the 4 IN types: INTJ/INTP/INFJ/INFP.

    On another forum, INTP was strongly suggested for my MBTI type. I'm an LII/INTj in socionics. For some reason, I am much more clear on my socionics type than MBTI type. I almost always get LII as my top type. INTj socionics is sort of like an MBTI INTP because both have Ti as the top function and Ne as the secondary. But the two systems are not identical and the functions and dichotomies are described differently in each so you could be unrelated types in the two systems.

    So if you could help me sort it out that would be great.

    Here is how I relate to T:

    *I tend to rely mostly on logic when making decisions. I don't actually sit down and make pros/cons list but I am constantly weighing such things in my head.

    *I love to analyze things and solve problems based on logic.

    *When I was young, my greatest strengths were in things like math and other logical domains. Mentally, I was always advanced for my age, while emotionally and socially I lagged well behind my peers.

    *When I was younger, I wasn't always the most tactful person. Tact is something I've had to learn through time. Today, of course, I am very tactful with others and try hard not to hurt their feelings. But I guess when it comes down to it, I value truth more. I seek the truth even though it may be unpleasant and sometimes telling others the hard truth can ultimately be a form of caring. Here's a case in point:

    I remember when I used to teach I'd have students who were failing and they were doing so poorly that there was no way they could theoretically pass the course even if they got 100% of the remaining points. Many of these students failed due to slacking off but a few failed in spite of their best efforts or due to some problems in their personal lives that interfered with their performance. They begged for extra credit and be allowed to pass because they needed to pass the course to take the next one in sequence. I didn't give in, the reasoning being that if they couldn't pass this course, they certainly would have even more difficulty in the follow-up one. If every student were allowed to pass regardless of performance, think about what that would do further down the road, when they are out in the real world and have the degree but lack the competence to effectively do their jobs.

    *I seem to value my intellect more than just about anything else. I place a very high premium on competency. My whole self-image seems to revolve around that. Maybe its kind of sad, but I'd rather be told I'm competent and
    highly intelligent than something on the lines of being really kind and caring and a good person. I guess its because I take the latter more for granted but I question how competent and good at something I really am. I think this suggests NT temperament is more likely than NF.

    *I am uncomfortable expressing strong emotions and also uncomfortable around people who are overly emotional about stuff. One reason I feel uneasy is because I'm not good at comforting people under distress. I sympathize with them but other than the canned "I'm so sorry" response, I often don't know what else to do or say.

    *I tend to be more comfortable with the objective realm than the subjective one. An example of this is in my job as a librarian. I help people with all sorts of questions but I'm far more comfortable helping them out on logical, objective ones (like where to locate a specific piece of information or book or a computer question) rather than subjectives ones based on feelings (I'm looking for a good book to read). Everyone has a different idea as to what a "good" book is. Everyone has different tastes and preferences. Just because I like book x doesn't mean you will. When asked those sorts of questions, I tend to make the subjective into something more objective. That is I'll make suggestions more off of objective, measureable criteria like what's popular with the most readers, which books have won awards, which books appear to be similar in content and style to what they've previously read and enjoyed, etc. Rarely does my own preferences influence my decision although if a patron asks me what I personally like or don't like, I'll tell them. I kind of dread those more subjective "good book" questions because I never feel sure in my mind I made the best suggestion. Some of my other colleagues thrive on those questions. They love "selling" a book they loved to someone else, convincing them, you've just got to read this! I feel uncomfortable with this "selling" aspect.

    *I feel bad when my emotions get out of control. I value control of feelings. I think that's more of a T thing.

    *I also have a great need for things to make logical sense. When reading a book or article for example, the biggest factor that affects whether or not I like or dislike it is the logical coherence. I remember some books I read, I gave up because even though they were emotionally moving or compelling they weren't coherent logically. For example, they would randomly introduce characters and places without fully explaining how they relate to the other characters or the overall framework. (Does that sound like Ti or what?) There would be loose ends and transitions that seem completely random. Or introducing some jargon or concept and not fully explaining it. I don't know but I kind of think that an F might not care so much about that. For me the most satisfying endings are those that make logical sense, that tie all the loose ends together (exception is when there's a going to be a sequel, which in that case some loose ends are okay provided they are tied up in the next book). This is more important than whether the ending is happy or sad.

  2. #2
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    Here's how I relate to feeling and why I might not be a thinking type:

    *I am thin-skinned and tend to take things personally. I find criticism hard to take, even the constructive kind sometimes. Ultimately in the end though, even if I didn't at first, I end up accepting and owning up to the criticism and do my best to improve. I do need to know the truth about myself even if its painful.

    *I care a lot about what other people think of me. I am deeply hurt by rejection. For example, I hear about these people writing a book and getting rejected by publisher after publisher with scathing reviews. Such a thing would totally devastate me, to put all my heart into something, only to have it trashed. Yet, things like this don't seem to faze some people and they just keep going no matter what. I'd love to be more like that.

    *I'm always seeing the exception to the rule. I try to be as fair and just as possible but one rule does not fit all nor should it much of the time.

    *I'm very compassionate and considerate and try to avoid hurting others' feelings if at all possible. Heck, I even feel compassion for those heinous killers who are about to be fried in the electric chair. I want to believe in human goodness, that even people who have done very heinous acts can be reformed and turn their lives around. I believe in second chances.

    *I remember reading a scenario in one of the Myers-Briggs books for determining T/F. It had to do with a company who needed to lay off one of their employees. One was a younger employee with considerable potential to achieve a great deal and grow in the company. The other was an older employee, whose best years were behind him but who had worked for the company a very long time and was very loyal. Supposedly thinking types, would be more likely to keep the first employee and lay off the second, citing economics as their primary concern. The first employee, due to less experience and seniority would be cheaper to keep on and a generous severance package could be given to the older employee. The feeler on the other hand, reasons that if you let the older employee go, he may have a harder time finding another job due to his age, and besides, shouldn't loyalty be rewarded. The younger employee, being talented, shouldn't have too much trouble finding a job. (although in today's economy, it seems like almost everybody is having trouble finding a job.) Well, I sided firmly with the F side on this one. I'm not sure I'd have the heart to fire that older, loyal employee. Of course I'm not going to keep someone who doesn't meet a basic standard of competency even if they are extremely loyal. But I would be inclined to keep an employee who'd been there a long time and performed satisfactorily even if his performance wasn't stellar.

    *Over and over again I read descriptions saying that thinking types tend to think feelings are valid only if they are logical while feeling types tend to believe any feeling is valid. I'm definitely with F on this one. I find it very troublesome when people tell me how I should or should not feel about things. When growing up, I could remember my parents, peers, and teachers say that I blew certain things way out of proportion and to just calm down, not get over excited, or don't cry. Okay maybe, part of this is from inferior Fe. I found this hurtful because it was if my own feelings were invalidated. I feel what I feel, dammit! I can't help who I am! I also hate it when I'm upset about something and someone tells me to cheer up. I can't just make my self cheer up at will. I have to have time to process the bad feelings and gradually they will pass on their own.

    *I've read over and over again in various type descriptions that thinking types tend to not require praise like feeling types do. I definitely need some praise. I don't constantly need it and if the praise comes on too strongly, I can question its sincerity. I can be embarrassed if I'm overpraised for something I don't think is a big deal or that just anybody could have done but if I don't get praise at all, I find myself wondering if I am good at all. My previous boss criticized readily and hardly ever handed out praise and I was constantly worried about how well I was doing. I have the ability to assess in my own mind how I think I'm doing but unless I get feedback, I don't really have a good estimation of how accurate my own self-perceptions are. In my previous job, I was shocked to find that my performance review was lukewarm and that I need improvement in several key areas. I was upset because in my mind I was giving it my all and going above the call of duty. I felt my boss was criticizing me in all these areas and hardly mentioned what I was doing well. I eventually confronted her with this issue and told her how I felt and that I needed to be explicitly told the areas I was doing well in. This makes me wonder if I'm more of a feeling type. My self-assessment of my abilities and worth is largely influenced by what others think. This could be more of an enneagram social subtype thing though.

    *I've also read in various type descriptions that thinking types can work well without harmony while feeling types need harmony to work most effectively. I'm more like an F here. I have almost zero tolerance for disharmony. I work as a reference librarian and serve the public. Most library users are considerate and civil but once in a while I get a customer who's very rude. Or I have a colleague that's angry or crabby with me. It takes me a long time, sometimes hours to fully recover from such unpleasant encounters. Other people just seem to be able to let it go at the drop of a hat and not revisit it again. I'll brood over the encounter a while, wondering why people are so inconsiderate and if I could have done or said anything differently to avoid it from happening in the first place. I just can't seem to tolerate strong displays of negative emotion. I can still work without harmony, but I definitely feel more effective and efficient when I have it.

    *On the other hand, maybe I am an INTP because I read a book that discussed inferior functions, and I remember that I identified alot with inferior Fe. When I was a child, I remember slamming doors, stomping my feet, screaming, and even punching others when "in the grip" of the inferior function. It was not pretty and it was so unlike me because I'm normally a rational, calm, and gentle person. But that's exactly what the inferior function is about. It is behavior you manifest under very stressful situations and its normally out of your element to act that way.

  3. #3
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    Now for the J/P stuff. I apologize if this gets too long. I want to get all the information out there and not overlook anything that could possibily affect my typing.

    Here's how I match up with J and P:

    Judging:

    *I'm very punctual and very concerned about time. I know that time is a nonrenewable resource and I hate wasting it and hate having others waste my time. I'm almost always on time. Sometimes I'm early, sometimes a few minutes late but on the rare occassion I'm more than 15 minutes late, you can bet there is a very good reason for it.

    *I'm very reliable. When I say I'm going to do something, I keep my promise if at all possible, even if its some inconvienience to me. I hate letting people down and feel bad about doing that.

    *I feel better once a decision has been made. It can take me a while to come to a decision because I like to consider the different options but once I've made the decision, I'm usually satisfied with it. It feels relieved to have the burden off my back.

    *I enjoy both starting and finishing things but I think ultimately I'm more about the end product than the process. I feel really good when I've finished a project. Of course that never lasts too long because once I've finished a project, I tend to almost immediately find another project to start. I do have a lot of projects in various stages of completion though and some that I started and never did get around to finishing but I generally don't like having things incomplete.

    *I am very results oriented and not as process oriented. In my head I have an idea of what the end result should look like and I work hard towards a result that will meet my standards.

    *I don't like rushing at the last minute to get things done. I'd rather start early and pace myself, although when I was younger, I tend to do a lot more things at the last minute and was a big procrastinator, especially school papers. I prefer to do things early that I know I can't avoid anyway just to have them off my back. Like taxes.

    *I take deadlines very seriously. I tend to see them as more fixed than negotiable. When I was in school, I'd put myself through a great deal of stress to make the deadlines on my assignments rather than just turning it in late or asking for an extension.

    *I'm flexible but don't deal well with sudden changes or too drastic of a change. I prefer some advance warning but I know this isn't always possible. I can improvise if needed to but wouldn't say its natural for me. I'm also not naturally good at thinking quickly on my feet but that may be attributed also to weak extraversion.

    *I like knowing what's expected of me. Its preferable than doing a task and not until you're well into it find out that you're doing it all wrong. I remember in school on assignments, I was always the one to ask questions like "How many pages does it need to be?" "Double spaced or single spaced?" Part of this was so that I wouldn't get unpleasantly suprised at a lower grade than I would have liked simple because of some little rule that wasn't spelled out in advance. Second, was that asking these questions was really an indirect way of asking, what's the minimum amount of work I can do on this boring assignment and still have it meet satisfactory standards?



    Perceiving:

    *I like to keep my options open on things and open to changing my decision if better information comes along. Having things final with no room for change makes me uneasy.

    *In my personal life, I don't much keep a schedule. I have a rough itinerary of what I'd like to do but not much definite. I keep alot of it open-ended so I can take advantage of last-minute opportunities that arise.

    *I don't like planning things way far in advance although I know sometimes its necessary. Like booking trips several months in advance for example. Maybe by then I'll longer be interested in going or would rather go somewhere else or some better opportunity will present itself or some unforeseen circumstance will come up that won't make it feasible to go or I find I'd rather go at a different time, etc.

    *I also don't like the details involved in planning major events. But that also may be more of an S thing. Weedings are one such example, the amount of planning that's involved just exhausts me by thinking about it.

    *I'm not naturally decisive even though I do feel relieved once I've gotten around to finally making the decision.

    *I have a lot of projects in progress (see above), although I do feel bad when I can't finish all that I start. Sometimes I'm unrealistic about what I can accomplish and tend to take on too much but as I've gotten older I've tempered this somewhat.

    *I very rarely have a definite opinion on most things. I see several sides to different issues. Very few things are black and white. I feel like I'm rather wishy washy and waver on things too much.

    *I find it difficult to stick to a schedule. I do better when things are more flexible and I can do things when I'm in the mood to do so, as long as they still get done by the deadline. For example, I tried setting an exercise routine, including times of the day I would exercise and what exercises I'd do. That never lasted too long. Now, I just exercise more when I feel like it, and as long as I get the recommended amount per week, it doesn't matter so much when I do it. I also don't like it when I have a gazillion things scheduled in one day. I like the freedom to do what I want when I want.

    *I like variety and hate having the same old routine all the time. I like to vary what I have for lunch, vary my route to work, etc.

    *I'm pretty flexible about most things and most people see me as pretty flexible and easygoing. Although I'm not so flexible with really sudden or really drastic changes. In general I'm quite flexible about changes in plans. If someone wants to reschedule an appointment to a different time, its almost never an issue. The only time its really an issue is when I've invested alot of time towards planning something that ends up being all for nought because I hate wasting my time.

  4. #4
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    Anyone want to attempt a guess? Or am I just one of those untypeable sorts?

  5. #5
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    INFJ with strong Ti or a balanced INTP? Are you a male by chance? On second thought, there is nothing really in all your description to contradict INTP. Looking at functions might help.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    INFJ with strong Ti or a balanced INTP? Are you a male by chance? On second thought, there is nothing really in all your description to contradict INTP. Looking at functions might help.
    I'm female.

    Here's the thing. Based on functions and their placements, I'd say INTP is more likely, followed by INFP. I do have strong Ne and identify with it more than Ni. But really, both of them are pretty strong. I feel like my Fe is a weak function, I never quite feel comfortable utilizing it but I do see its value. So that would make INFJ less likely.

    Nothing in my description contradicts INTP, huh?
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  7. #7
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    I could identify with 90% of this!! I am xNTP with a slight inclination/preference for I over E, and extreme iNtuitive and Fi as my tertiary. I am usually tagged INTP but situationally have sometimes typed as ENTP and ENTJ with a slight J preference with my "work" head on
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
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  8. #8
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm-shift View Post
    Actually I don't know if I am an INTP or not. That's my (very) tentative guess. I read the INTP descriptions and much of it fits but I am more F and J like compared to other INTPs, I think. On tests I pretty much cycle between the 4 IN types: INTJ/INTP/INFJ/INFP.

    On another forum, INTP was strongly suggested for my MBTI type. I'm an LII/INTj in socionics. For some reason, I am much more clear on my socionics type than MBTI type. I almost always get LII as my top type. INTj socionics is sort of like an MBTI INTP because both have Ti as the top function and Ne as the secondary. But the two systems are not identical and the functions and dichotomies are described differently in each so you could be unrelated types in the two systems.

    So if you could help me sort it out that would be great.

    I think you are an ITJ. Look at this bit, for instance.


    *I seem to value my intellect more than just about anything else. I place a very high premium on competency. My whole self-image seems to revolve around that. Maybe its kind of sad, but I'd rather be told I'm competent and
    highly intelligent than something on the lines of being really kind and caring and a good person. I guess its because I take the latter more for granted but I question how competent and good at something I really am. I think this suggests NT temperament is more likely than NF.
    This part suggests that your Fi is better developed than your Ti. Ti covers the evaluation of technical excellence (competance) and Fi does moral assesment. In ITJs Ti is in the critical position, where it will often cast doubts upon a persons abilities when it works badly. When Fi goes wrong, it will tend to make you doubt what it is you really want out of something.


    *I feel bad when my emotions get out of control. I value control of feelings. I think that's more of a T thing.
    That's a rather classic tertiary Fi quote as well. The tertiary function doesn't take much effort to use, so keeping feeling introverted and hidden comes naturally to ITJs.


    *I also have a great need for things to make logical sense. When reading a book or article for example, the biggest factor that affects whether or not I like or dislike it is the logical coherence. I remember some books I read, I gave up because even though they were emotionally moving or compelling they weren't coherent logically. For example, they would randomly introduce characters and places without fully explaining how they relate to the other characters or the overall framework. (Does that sound like Ti or what?) There would be loose ends and transitions that seem completely random. Or introducing some jargon or concept and not fully explaining it. I don't know but I kind of think that an F might not care so much about that. For me the most satisfying endings are those that make logical sense, that tie all the loose ends together (exception is when there's a going to be a sequel, which in that case some loose ends are okay provided they are tied up in the next book). This is more important than whether the ending is happy or sad.
    That could be critical Ti again. You spent most of this paragraph talking about how much logical inconsistency gets on your nerves. The second from last sentance is the only one where you have much positive to say.


    I remember when I used to teach I'd have students who were failing and they were doing so poorly that there was no way they could theoretically pass the course even if they got 100% of the remaining points. Many of these students failed due to slacking off but a few failed in spite of their best efforts or due to some problems in their personal lives that interfered with their performance. They begged for extra credit and be allowed to pass because they needed to pass the course to take the next one in sequence. I didn't give in, the reasoning being that if they couldn't pass this course, they certainly would have even more difficulty in the follow-up one. If every student were allowed to pass regardless of performance, think about what that would do further down the road, when they are out in the real world and have the degree but lack the competence to effectively do their jobs.
    This suggests the long term view typical of an ITJ. It could be Si or Ni, to be honest. Oh, and there is a touch of that critical Ti at the end again!


    *I tend to be more comfortable with the objective realm than the subjective one. An example of this is in my job as a librarian. I help people with all sorts of questions but I'm far more comfortable helping them out on logical, objective ones (like where to locate a specific piece of information or book or a computer question) rather than subjectives ones based on feelings (I'm looking for a good book to read). Everyone has a different idea as to what a "good" book is. Everyone has different tastes and preferences. Just because I like book x doesn't mean you will. When asked those sorts of questions, I tend to make the subjective into something more objective. That is I'll make suggestions more off of objective, measureable criteria like what's popular with the most readers, which books have won awards, which books appear to be similar in content and style to what they've previously read and enjoyed, etc. Rarely does my own preferences influence my decision although if a patron asks me what I personally like or don't like, I'll tell them. I kind of dread those more subjective "good book" questions because I never feel sure in my mind I made the best suggestion. Some of my other colleagues thrive on those questions. They love "selling" a book they loved to someone else, convincing them, you've just got to read this! I feel uncomfortable with this "selling" aspect.
    This bit sounds more Ni than Si to me.

    Over all, I'm going to tentitvely type you as am INTJ with an overactive critical Ti.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  9. #9
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  10. #10
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    How's that relevant to this thread?
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