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Thread: entp or enfp

  1. #21
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Oh please! someone can have X anywhere in their type. Weather it be because they are not sure of their type or weather they operate on a 50/50 basis or even indeed if they wish to just put a big old X into the mix.
    It's immaterial, bah to the conformists!


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  2. #22
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    I have a problem with this statement because it suggests that personality has a dependence on temperament, when temperament is a tool developed to try to understand personality. You've assumed that a theory is a reality.
    Temperament = Natural Personality, regardless of "tool". It is reality unless you argue that there is no such as thing as temperament, or reality itself.

    Yes, but the suggestion that a person is clearly one or the other doesn't really fit with this distribution. It more suggests people tend to be a mix.
    In the four letter system's terms, I guess so. But the problem is that, because MBTI bases itself on Cognitive Functions, these four letters must not be the basis of our judgements. You are an ENFP because your function model is Ne Fi Te Si, not because you "scored" 60%E 80%N 55%F 59%P.

    In that assuming one is part of the extreme and searching for careers in the area of only one type is less satisfactory for some people than looking at careers that overlap the two types they have covered with the X.
    If the goal was career oriented, then perhaps.

    But you were talking about accuracy of type descriptions?


    Beyond the secondary function, ie. tertiary onward, people don't fit the regular option for a type as often. There are 16 types, which account for the possible permutations of the first two functions.
    Cognitive Functions does not neglect environmental effects. MBTI does with its 4 letter system and its implication of absolute EISNTFJP. The functions suggests that people are both thinkers and feelers etc. and the adjustability of it.

    You are a Te and an Fi. ENFP does not only mean ENFP, it means Ne Fi Te Si.
    Lack of knowledge and education is not to be ashamed of. I believe our abilities shouldn't define our worth. Then again, there is the emotion known as "pride" and the value by practicality.

    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Oh please! someone can have X anywhere in their type. Weather it be because they are not sure of their type or weather they operate on a 50/50 basis or even indeed if they wish to just put a big old X into the mix.
    It's immaterial, bah to the conformists!
    Oh, I have no objections to placing X's, my objection is believing they're "X's" based on the same theory that says otherwise.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Temperament = Natural Personality, regardless of "tool". It is reality unless you argue that there is no such as thing as temperament, or reality itself.
    From your last two responses it is clear that you defined Temperament in the context of type. Otherwise the last response has nothing to do with the one before. Type is not a reality but something used to assist our understanding of it. If you believe our brain is actually split into 8 functions and four temperaments, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    In the four letter system's terms, I guess so. But the problem is that, because MBTI bases itself on Cognitive Functions, these four letters must not be the basis of our judgements. You are an ENFP because your function model is Ne Fi Te Si, not because you "scored" 60%E 80%N 55%F 59%P.
    Yes, to be correct to the original theory I would say this is true. The theory when used to the letter, like many religions when used to the letter, does not resemble reality though. Why must a person who prefers Ne and Fi prefer Te next? The answer is they mustn't. This is why I highlighted that only the first two functions are covered by the permutations, and after this we are assuming a correlation between the first two functions and the third. To be true to the theory you can assume it. But the correlation is just that, a correlation, and it isn't necessarily a strong one (or even an existent one). So to infer that I'm Ne Fi Te is not really a solid inference, but a guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    If the goal was career oriented, then perhaps.

    But you were talking about accuracy of type descriptions?
    Type descriptions like the majority of fake online MBTi (and function) tests can be pretty inaccurate and have little to do with the real MBTi system. Still if you read quite a few of them you can weed out a bit of the BS and figure out at least in which region you lie, if not your type. You don't always have to toe the line to get an accurate result.


    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Cognitive Functions does not neglect environmental effects. MBTI does with its 4 letter system and its implication of absolute EISNTFJP. The functions suggests that people are both thinkers and feelers etc. and the adjustability of it.

    You are a Te and an Fi. ENFP does not only mean ENFP, it means Ne Fi Te Si.
    The letters have little to do with aptitude anyway. They are just preference. If this makes things sit better with you then believe it though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Lack of knowledge and education is not to be ashamed of. I believe our abilities shouldn't define our worth. Then again, there is the emotion known as "pride" and the value by practicality.


    Oh, I have no objections to placing X's, my objection is believing they're "X's" based on the same theory that says otherwise.
    I think we were arguing different things then. I was trying to make sure the OP didn't end up in wonderland, while you seem to be making sure I know "the theory" correctly. I can see how it all fits together, and the theoretical problems with mapping an X to functions, if that was what you wanted (did I start the TC thread on this?). I just have a problem with MBTi and functions being used as a predictive measure rather than a statistical one. The fact it is preference based and statistical negates many of the problems people have with understanding how certain types can behave. eg. "feelers" thinking, though that is just a misunderstanding of the judging processes, because "feeling" as a Jungian process is not really to do with emotions vs logic, it's about seeing the importance of an element to a system (ie. holistic), or at least when it is mixed with Ne. In MBTi "feeling" is a preference for including effect on people in decision making. Again, nothing to do with not thinking about the problem properly first, just lowering collateral with the final decision.
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