Following the Trend...S/N Problems

[Salomé]

The only thing is that I've heard that ISTPs can seem a little intense, angry, and edgy underneath their quiet exteriors (sort of like INTJs) while INTPs are more...placid seeming? Or amiably detached? I think I come off more as the angry/intense kind. People always mistake my neutral face for angry and ask me why I'm so pissed and miserable all of the time.

I think this applies to the guys more than the gals, tbh. I was placid and amenable as a kid, but it's difficult to be a T woman and not be a bit angry and irritated, I think. Life will do that to you.

 

[Orangey]

I think this applies to the guys more than the gals, tbh. I was placid and amenable as a kid, but it's difficult to be a T woman and not be a bit angry and irritated, I think. Life will do that to you.

That's true, I've gotten more "angry" seeming primarily in my older rather than younger years.

 

[Colors]

I'm not really familiar with many of them, but the ones I have encountered seem more carefree and live-and-let-live than I am. I rarely see them in any sort of extended arguments. I, by contrast, enjoy arguments on here, even the trollish ones.

:hi:, Orangey! There are quite a few of us around nowadays, though we are very low key.

Hah, MBTI forums think I'm cool and badass! But really, I'm pretty goofy (and geeky). I am frequently argumentative in real-life (and my friends well know me for my frequent self-righteous outbursts), but rarely does anything come up on this particular forum that I think merits an actual argument. So sometimes I pretend I have an "angry" or iconoclastic persona as a defensive mechanism (as some people crappily call themselves selfish, etc, right off the top as an excuse)... but it's not how I see myself at all! And I recognize it's a totally cowardly to do so.

In general, I don't see ISTPs as, you know, "edgy", more like we can be so chill in some regards that people can be taken aback by our intensity when it is turned "on".

So, ISTP defense:

- I enjoyed and played a lot of sports when I was younger, and was known for being quite athletic and outdoorsy.

- I've been complimented before for my alertness and observational skills.

- I am quite impulsive and live, to a good degree, in the hear-and-now.

- I like to drive to relieve stress, and I drive faster and more aggressively than most people that I know.

- I can be quite crude and vulgar, and I have what is commonly referred to by large-hipped, uptight mother types as a "potty mouth."

- I have always had a problem with authority, though not to a large enough degree to make me a real criminal. The worst that I do is sometimes shoplift (mostly for the challenge) and fail to pay my traffic tickets (or parking tickets) or appear in court.

- I enjoy observing my surroundings when I'm out and about.

- I like observational drawing.

- I can often enjoy films purely for their aesthetic.

- I can sometimes take things a little literally.

INTP defense:

- I like to fantasize and daydream. A lot. In fact, the fantasizing can be almost crippling.

- My students have complained about my manner of speaking being too abstract. In fact, a few of them even said that they wished I would put things in more concrete rather than "philosophical" terms.

- My interests are, and have always been, theoretical and conceptual in nature. That's why I went to grad school in the humanities.

- I have been called "quick witted" and "clever." I am good at banter and repartee, though I avoid getting too "silly." I like it when the banter is sarcastic and borderline-mean rather than whimsical.

- I wanted to be an inventor when I was a small child.

- I am clumsy and can get lost in thought. It's why I've been in two auto accidents - not paying attention.

- I am not in the least practical in my day-to-day life, though I like to think that I'm pretty good at giving practical advice.

- I spend most of my day coming up with different scenarios for my future and fantasizing about what it'd be like to be in those scenarios.

- I really do spend a good portion of each day thinking about type theories, and have done so for a good two years now (save a couple month period where I was bogged down with work and didn't have time to think about anything that I liked.)

My thoughts on the above subjects (as a pretty-well established ISTP):

-I drive like an old lady and it still hasn't helped me avoid accidents. I will not speculate as to any reasons for said accidents.

-What kind of introvert doesn't love observing the world? The world is beautiful and baffling.

-My mouth can be a lot clever-er than my brain. Which I mean to say while I am hilarious, I can also offend people pretty easily if I don't put active thought into watching myself and watching my natural inclination to not have any tact. (Which is partly why I avoid banter online as there are fewer signals for me to read.)

-I used to fantasize a lot, but it's not something I like about myself. Fantasy is the band-aid on top of a festering sore. Helps me ignore it too well, as I have very bad avoidant tendencies.

Maybe I am assuming too much...The way you describe the small criminalities and how you've labeled yourself as "vulgar"- it does somewhat seem like you are 'angry' or perhaps dissatisfied with the roles offered to you in society. In that sense, I don't think you'll be necessarily satisfied with any MBTI type because the feeling of outside-ness permeates (and perhaps exacerbated by how often people on this board emphasize their oneness within a type vs. greater humanity- which really polarizes the issue).

 

[Aleksei]

- My students have complained about my manner of speaking being too abstract. In fact, a few of them even said that they wished I would put things in more concrete rather than "philosophical" terms.

This seems like a complaint more likely to be leveled at an Ni rather than Ne user. Ne tends to be quirky and odd, plucking comparisons and shrewd ideas out of thin air, but it's not deeply cryptic. Ni is.

- I have been called "quick witted" and "clever." I am good at banter and repartee, though I avoid getting too "silly." I like it when the banter is sarcastic and borderline-mean rather than whimsical.

Then your banter is Se in nature, rather than Ne. Ne wit is goofy and quirky, and shunning that is a sign of lacking Ne.

- I am not in the least practical in my day-to-day life, though I like to think that I'm pretty good at giving practical advice.

Properly speaking being "practical" tends to be more of an SJ thing, than an S thing. Clumsiness in everyday affairs is indicative (though no guarantor) of lacking Si, which one would expect in a balanced INTP.

Overall I'd say ISTP. From your relatively limited self-description it's quite possible you're Se, with s very strong tertiary Ni, rather than Ne.

 

[Orangey]

In general, I don't see ISTPs as, you know, "edgy", more like we can be so chill in some regards that people can be taken aback by our intensity when it is turned "on".

Yeah, that explains why people might falsely perceive ISTPs to be "edgy."

- My mouth can be a lot clever-er than my brain. Which I mean to say while I am hilarious, I can also offend people pretty easily if I don't put active thought into watching myself and watching my natural inclination to not have any tact. (Which is partly why I avoid banter online as there are fewer signals for me to read.)

Thanks for responding!

I accidentally offend people all of the time with my particular brand of humor. The concept of tact is similarly difficult for me.

Maybe I am assuming too much...The way you describe the small criminalities and how you've labeled yourself as "vulgar"- it does somewhat seem like you are 'angry' or perhaps dissatisfied with the roles offered to you in society. In that sense, I don't think you'll be necessarily satisfied with any MBTI type because the feeling of outside-ness permeates (and perhaps exacerbated by how often people on this board emphasize their oneness within a type vs. greater humanity- which really polarizes the issue).

I don't know about all of this...interesting perspective, though.

This seems like a complaint more likely to be leveled at an Ni rather than Ne user. Ne tends to be quirky and odd, plucking comparisons and shrewd ideas out of thin air, but it's not deeply cryptic. Ni is.


Then your banter is Se in nature, rather than Ne. Ne wit is goofy and quirky, and shunning that is a sign of lacking Ne.


Properly speaking being "practical" tends to be more of an SJ thing, than an S thing. Clumsiness in everyday affairs is indicative (though no guarantor) of lacking Si, which one would expect in a balanced INTP.

Overall I'd say ISTP. From your relatively limited self-description it's quite possible you're Se, with s very strong tertiary Ni, rather than Ne.

Thanks for the analysis. You could quite possibly be right.

 

[Eric B]

I've heard that ISTPs can seem a little intense, angry, and edgy underneath their quiet exteriors (sort of like INTJs) while INTPs are more...placid seeming? Or amiably detached? I think I come off more as the angry/intense kind. People always mistake my neutral face for angry and ask me why I'm so pissed and miserable all of the time.

ISTP, INTJ=Chart the course (Melancholic); INTP=Behind the Scenes (Phlegmatic). Directive/Informative difference.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

ISTP, INTJ=Chart the course (Melancholic); INTP=Behind the Scenes (Phlegmatic). Directive/Informative difference.

If you believe in and like the idea of interaction styles, I find it an extremely good and extremely reliable way to find out whether you are INTP or ISTP...! Really, I did this with a friend of mine who could not decide between ISTP and INTP...... and he couldn't even perform the movement associated with directing, which was hilarious, because with me, it was the other way around........ if you're wondering what I am talking about, take a look at the video on this page
INFJ or INFP? a closer look

really, I find it really death-proof. It really helps when you have to decide between INTP and ISTP, if someone is generally uncertain about their type, it at least helps to narrow it down in my opinion.....

 

[Eric B]

That site takes "directing" and "informing" a bit too literally. Anyone can phrase something in the form of an order or information. It's a bit more than that, and ties more to people vs task focus. (Berens even acknowledges this). Task focused might be more inclined to direct, while People-focused less so (because they want to be nicer), but you can't make a hard rule out of that, as this source often does with behaviors.
The structure-motive dichotomy in temperament is also a form of people-task, and can give INTP's a "directive"-like communication at times, but it won't be their basic social style.