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  1. #61
    Member Serge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesl View Post
    Whew. So sorry, Serge, I didn't mean to say abrasively that you weren't an INTJ and then disappear from the thread. I went back to re-read once more and gather evidence for my conclusion, but in the mean time, a whole bunch of other people posted. Okay, so, here's what I think.


    It wasn't abrasive, I just found the comment itself interesting because it appeared that you had another type in mind outside of the scope of the topic. You have nothing to be sorry about lol.
    I don't think that your understanding of how an INFJ would use extraverted feeling is quite correct. INFJs often appear detached and in my opinion, mean. I can explain why. Fe is not the warm-and-fuzzy, hugging-strangers-on-the-street function that it's often made out to be, especially when it's paired with dominant Ni. It's mostly a proprietary function. My INFJ friend is mean, in my opinion, but she is highly concerned with doing and saying the "appropriate" thing. Appropriate is the key word. Not the nice thing, the appropriate thing. She is not someone you would want to hug as soon as you saw her. In fact, most people want to run away from her. LOL! She's concerned about how people 'view' her. She's obsessed with asking herself how her actions toward other people define her 'role' in a way that I don't understand.
    Interesting, I can understand some of that mentality. The last one, though, makes me a bit wary. Are you saying that she defines herself based on the relationships she has or that she defines her role in a relationship based on what is happening in the relationship?

    INFJs are not 'emotional' in the same way that ENFJs are, let alone in the same way that ENFPs are. It's either the ExFx or the ENFx that gives off the impression of warmth right off the bat.
    I see, I see.
    All of that said about INFJs, I see you as a likely IxFJ. I haven't seen that much Ni? Your blog post sounded IxFJ, leaning ISFJ to me. Your signature includes a quote, "I like life but life has a boyfriend," which is an extraverted feeling joke. I wouldn't use that as evidence, but it was just a little red herring to me as I was thinking about your type.
    Understandable. My blog post was written under the light that I needed to 'open up' and show my feelings (on a particular forum, that is). IIRC, ISFJs have Si, correct? Unless I have misunderstood the function which, from what I've read, is all about recalling old data and such, and comparing it to the current reality; if that is Si, then I don't think I use it. I prefer living in the moment and looking to the future, I don't really contemplate the past at all

    Further comments below.

    This sounds possibly ISFJ-like to me.


    This could be xxFJ.


    I don't know what I think about this post. It's not really indicative of any type in particular.

    You know what, I typed as an INTJ my freshman year of high school, and I really thought that was what I was until my junior year. That was when I met an actual INTJ and realized I was NF. It's the aspect of yourself that you simply cannot live without that counts for MBTI, Serge. There are so many, so many stereotypes about types that you have to discount in order to figure out your true preferences.
    Hmm. Fairly similar progression myself, I typed INTJ when I was in 8th grade, thought it was BS and dismissed, took the test again and got the same result and got interested, that's how I got started in all this MBTI business. Hmm. I can live without practicality and efficiency, I'm pretty sure. Now that I recall, I've done it numerous times before (One specific example I'm recalling at the moment is the fact that I've played more than 10 instruments. Logically speaking, I realize that you can play the melody of any song on any instrument and that sticking to one instrument and practicing will make you capable of actually playing that melody but, alas, I just love the sound and timbre of other instruments and as such, I had to pick up other instruments. Looking back, my skill levels suffered for it, but I do not regret it)
    Aleksei, I think you're my favorite person on this forum. YOU ARE HILARIOUS. Your temper is so similar to mine.
    Thank you for your post, it was very insightful! o/\o
    Johari/Nohari wall! Thanks in advance for filling it out.

    "Taste. I have no taste. I don't like these tiny portions or your artful abortions of sound, sealed with a kiss, slathered in the sauce sarcastic. So go choke on your irony"
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    "Life for you, has been less than kind
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  2. #62
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Well yes, he became the "savior" Kira. An INTJ would have preferred to stay hidden.
    Light did stay hidden, behind the Kira mask.

    Why not? Serge has a point. Light understands that sacrifices are necessary to fulfill his Ni.

    Awareness of means =/= Fe.
    Fe is magnanimity. It is values, focused away from the self; that is, awareness of the values and needs of others, and a compulsion to take care of others' needs, even at the expense of one's own. Fe, unless heavily damaged, will usually seek to protect the innocent. It would under almost no circumstances be willing to make human sacrifices to fulfill Ni's vision.
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  3. #63
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    I think that I am having the same problem as the OP. Maybe.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  4. #64
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Fe is magnanimity. It is values, focused away from the self; that is, awareness of the values and needs of others, and a compulsion to take care of others' needs, even at the expense of one's own. Fe, unless heavily damaged, will usually seek to protect the innocent. It would under almost no circumstances be willing to make human sacrifices to fulfill Ni's vision.
    Nevermind.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  5. #65
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Fe

    The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The “social graces,” such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
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  6. #66
    Member Serge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    Nevermind.
    By that standard, I don't think I'm an INFJ. I don't feel a need to take care of others, people should be able to do that themselves. I don't think anyone should be taking care of me, either. And who wouldn't want to protect the innocent from the (presumptively) guilty?
    Johari/Nohari wall! Thanks in advance for filling it out.

    "Taste. I have no taste. I don't like these tiny portions or your artful abortions of sound, sealed with a kiss, slathered in the sauce sarcastic. So go choke on your irony"
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    "Life for you, has been less than kind
    So take a number, stand in line
    We've all been sorry, we've all been hurt
    But how we survive, is what makes us who we are"


  7. #67
    Senior Member Liesl's Avatar
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    It's not taking care of other people in the literal sense. I hate these definitions of the cognitive processes because they're all so vague. It's mostly about propriety, connecting with others, recognizing them, and maybe when it's accessed more strongly, feeling a sense of 'oneness' with the people that form your social group. Like you're all in it together and it's important to all stay connected.

    But is it important to you to respond to people in a socially appropriate way? Does it annoy you when people blatantly violate social protocol?

    Let me tell you about my Fi so that you can compare. When I see something that I consider a grave injustice, I will do everything in my power to call it out and stop it in its tracks. And I do not care to talk about it in a 'socially appropriate' way. If I see you violating a universal human value, I am in your face, I am yelling at you, I am using every power I have to speak out against you. I don't feel sorry for you. I don't care about being polite to you. I don't care about your feelings anymore. When you cross the line, you're DONE. I don't value relationships with people that violate my core values, and I'm often moved to speak out against them.

    Fe, on the other hand, focuses more on defending group norms or interpersonal standards than on own individual core values, which is Fi's focus. When Fe is disrupted, its users are more likely to just socially freeze you out. They'll just become frosty toward you.

  8. #68
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    @Serge: Either you are prone to playing devil's advocate, or you are leaning towards typing yourself as INTJ. Why don't you explain to us why you think you're an INTJ, and not an INFJ.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #69
    Member Serge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesl View Post
    It's not taking care of other people in the literal sense. I hate these definitions of the cognitive processes because they're all so vague. It's mostly about propriety, connecting with others, recognizing them, and maybe when it's accessed more strongly, feeling a sense of 'oneness' with the people that form your social group. Like you're all in it together and it's important to all stay connected.

    But is it important to you to respond to people in a socially appropriate way? Does it annoy you when people blatantly violate social protocol?

    Let me tell you about my Fi so that you can compare. When I see something that I consider a grave injustice, I will do everything in my power to call it out and stop it in its tracks. And I do not care to talk about it in a 'socially appropriate' way. If I see you violating a universal human value, I am in your face, I am yelling at you, I am using every power I have to speak out against you. I don't feel sorry for you. I don't care about being polite to you. I don't care about your feelings anymore. When you cross the line, you're DONE. I don't value relationships with people that violate my core values, and I'm often moved to speak out against them.

    Fe, on the other hand, focuses more on defending group norms or interpersonal standards than on own individual core values, which is Fi's focus. When Fe is disrupted, its users are more likely to just socially freeze you out. They'll just become frosty toward you.
    I'm more about individual core values than I am connecting with others.. I tend to like being socially appropriate but I don't think it's something that runs my life or anything like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    @Serge: Either you are prone to playing devil's advocate, or you are leaning towards typing yourself as INTJ. Why don't you explain to us why you think you're an INTJ, and not an INFJ.

    I'm just prone to playing Devil's advocate. I have a lot of typical INTJ tendencies such as always coming up with contingency plans, being interested in science, good at being impartial at the risk of lossing friends (I have, actually) but I also have traits that are outliers so to speak; I'm socially capable and all of those good things. I've spent quite an amount of time on the INTJ forum so I'm not sure if my INTJ traits are picked up or if they are something that is legitly spawned from my type. I also have an issue with the description of Fe: I don't place that much of my well being into other people. I like observing people but I don't expect them to play by my rules nor do I expect to change them into perfect little beings. And lastly, I'm not sure if I have a significant amount of Ti. I often search for the best answer not the answer that's good enough and I always try to explain things and explain what definition of the word I'm using is.
    Johari/Nohari wall! Thanks in advance for filling it out.

    "Taste. I have no taste. I don't like these tiny portions or your artful abortions of sound, sealed with a kiss, slathered in the sauce sarcastic. So go choke on your irony"
    ~
    "Life for you, has been less than kind
    So take a number, stand in line
    We've all been sorry, we've all been hurt
    But how we survive, is what makes us who we are"


  10. #70
    Senior Member Liesl's Avatar
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    But if you had to choose between the NT and NF temperaments, which would you say reflects what you look for out out of life? Knowledge seeking or identity seeking?

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