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  1. #181
    Member Serge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Maybe what's screwing with proper type hypothesising here is E vs I. All this social stuff you speak of, Serge, really doesn't sound INTJ. But it could easily be E-something. E-anything, really. And the fact you're sure of I would then be glossed by reference to the standard type development model, which says in the beginning we're all dominant but this changes in the teens when we all swing heavily into auxiliary mode. It's like a growth spurt and the auxiliary gets over-emphasised in consciousness (presumably just because if it weren't OVER-emphasized, it wouldn't have the conscious presence to grow in and eventually fit a proper role alongside the dominant). Maybe Little Sticks picked it right.
    So, based on the assumption that I'm an extrovert who is going through a introverted phase because I'm building my auxiliary function, my 'new' suspected type is now ENTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anamalech View Post
    Serge is an INFJ. Very developed Ti and unsure of his Fe. Its in his fucking voice. Natural warm Fe voice.

    YouTube - Michael Ignatieff's Early Liberal Memories - This guy is an INFJ with excellent Ti usage. Youd mistake him for an INTJ.

    YouTube - Stephen Harper Income Trust Promise - This guy is INTJ. Excellent articulation.

    Conclusion: Serge is an INFJ unsure of his Fe and with heavy Ti development.
    Natural warm "Fe" voice? I'm not sure if that's something to go off of and besides, my speech pattern and sound is something I have worked on as well. I used to mumble and speak quite quietly, also my voice used to be characteristically monotone as well. Interesting video. Why would I have so much developed Ti before I developed Fe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Seconded. Rather than focus on what qualifies as an "INTJ" or "INFJ" hobby, determine the process and reasoning in which you use to achieve your objective.

    Eric B's description on the functions might be of use to you:



    OrangeAppled's Fi-Fe distinction is great as well:
    Based on Eric B I feel familiar with Se, Ni, Te, Ti. When I was younger, though, I think I used more Ne (I used to be extremely random, I was the kid who would randomly start talking about what I watched on the discovery channel last night to the teacher) and Fe (I remember specifically an incident where I was getting ignored by my cousin and I felt like he hated me. I started crying. Another incident is where I forced myself to cry to get out of trouble with the principal and as soon as the 'trouble' passed, I immediately regained my composure. Another example of this is when my best friend tried to make me ditch my other friend just for the simple fact that I didn't like him. I stopped talking to him instead, you can't make a person do something like that, a good friend wouldn't do that)

    So..hmm.

    OrangeApple's comment: I don't really like admitting this but I do think that I seek a group consensus on a few issues. For example, if I'm interested in something, the first thing I do is read tons of articles on the same thing and I'll read the comments to see how other people are viewing the same information I'm reading. Sadly, I tend to think that if more people are agreeing, then I give the opinion more weight than if I had not read the comments. I also have a tendency to ask people in real life if it's weird to do a particular action or something like that, I like having the information. If this issue is personal to me though, no matter how many people oppose me, I will hold my view.
    Johari/Nohari wall! Thanks in advance for filling it out.

    "Taste. I have no taste. I don't like these tiny portions or your artful abortions of sound, sealed with a kiss, slathered in the sauce sarcastic. So go choke on your irony"
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    "Life for you, has been less than kind
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  2. #182
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    So, based on the assumption that I'm an extrovert who is going through a introverted phase because I'm building my auxiliary function, my 'new' suspected type is now ENTJ?
    I dunno, bro. It's hard work coming up with a best-fit type here because you keep on being open to possibilities and not fixing terms. If it's Ni/Te or Te/Ni going on here, the extraverted thinking part of the team is not setting out fixed points and boundaries to aid intuitive possibility investigation the way it normally would.


    (Well, technically you did fix the possible choices to INFJ or INTJ, but the rest of this discussion is all so open ended and interpretable a thousand different ways that I'm tempted to go with some Ne type again. It could just be that we're seeing way too much out in the open Ni, but where's the extraverted judging to go with it? But then again you're a teenager so the extrverted judging may still be somewhat muted. And then-a-then-again, your photos in the photo thread betray kind eyes, not the usually T dead stare.... argh, it's all too much information and no coordination.)
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  3. #183
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    When I was younger, though, I think I used more Ne (I used to be extremely random, I was the kid who would randomly start talking about what I watched on the discovery channel last night to the teacher) and Fe (I remember specifically an incident where I was getting ignored by my cousin and I felt like he hated me. I started crying. Another incident is where I forced myself to cry to get out of trouble with the principal and as soon as the 'trouble' passed, I immediately regained my composure. Another example of this is when my best friend tried to make me ditch my other friend just for the simple fact that I didn't like him. I stopped talking to him instead, you can't make a person do something like that, a good friend wouldn't do that)
    I don't think these examples necessarily illustrate Ne or Fe.

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  4. #184
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    A thing I am curious about is in this thread there is (or seems to me to be) a lot of personal recollection. Leaving aside the S/N difference (S would recall detail; N recalls significance), this level of public presentation would make me unsettled. Were it I and I was using this method to determine my type, I'd prefer getting it over with as quickly as possible. The personal disclosure stuff would continue to be unsettling until it had served its purpose. And if I may generalise, that sense of being unsettled would be the sign of semi- or unconscious F (aka conscious or mostly conscious T).

    Serge, would it be right to say you're not too conflicted over the meaning of the personal remembrances included in this thread? (And there would be two kinds of meaning to consider: the utilitarian and the historical. The utilitarian meaning is these remembrances are serving an immediate purpose here in this thread. The historical meaning is whatever personal content you normally and by yourself decided inheres in those recollections.)
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #185
    Member Serge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I don't think these examples necessarily illustrate Ne or Fe.
    I thought it might be helpful with all the other details.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    A thing I am curious about is in this thread there is (or seems to me to be) a lot of personal recollection. Leaving aside the S/N difference (S would recall detail; N recalls significance), this level of public presentation would make me unsettled. Were it I and I was using this method to determine my type, I'd prefer getting it over with as quickly as possible. The personal disclosure stuff would continue to be unsettling until it had served its purpose. And if I may generalise, that sense of being unsettled would be the sign of semi- or unconscious F (aka conscious or mostly conscious T).
    This thread has gotten quite a bit longer that I had anticipated but all the personal information I have relinquished is something I wouldn't necessarily hide in real life (With that being said...I'm not all too sure I'd be as forthcoming with everyone I know in real life, it's slightly comforting knowing that you don't know me and I you) I'd be a bit unsettled if my close friends found this but I'm not too unsettled with sharing my experiences online with everyone and I have a lot of dark secrets that I'm not sharing with anyone on this forum. But, with that being said, I like knowing how people view me as well so that might play into it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach
    Serge, would it be right to say you're not too conflicted over the meaning of the personal remembrances included in this thread? (And there would be two kinds of meaning to consider: the utilitarian and the historical. The utilitarian meaning is these remembrances are serving an immediate purpose here in this thread. The historical meaning is whatever personal content you normally and by yourself decided inheres in those recollections.)
    I'm not conflicted over the utilitarian nor historical views of my memories. I don't tend to think about the historical meanings of my memories though, like the memory that I recall of crying to get out of trouble, I don't particular adhere meaning to that...I just simply think "Oh, I was a little whiny, conniving bitch" and go on. The historical meaning doesn't really matter much to me. The utilitarian meaning matters a lot more to me, I like looking at my memories to see if they hold any importance now. For example, I had a dream of being a physicist when I was a child, that memory or concept is important to me. Now with that being said, some memories I do cherish. Those memories make me remember a time when I was happy and that also serves a function. I also have memories in which I wish to forget but they are an important mile stone of my character and they are also useful for me to remember. Sentimentality isn't really my thing though.

    I might have misinterpreted your question a bit, but I think that answers it.
    Johari/Nohari wall! Thanks in advance for filling it out.

    "Taste. I have no taste. I don't like these tiny portions or your artful abortions of sound, sealed with a kiss, slathered in the sauce sarcastic. So go choke on your irony"
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    "Life for you, has been less than kind
    So take a number, stand in line
    We've all been sorry, we've all been hurt
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  6. #186
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Yeah, I dunno. Something continues to be elusive. As in, I'm finding it really hard to latch onto any one thing and understand it as some definitive type signal. On that basis alone I'm tempted to say INFJ, but even that's a shot in the dark. So you're on your own in the final determination of this one. What's your own type hypothesis currently?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  7. #187
    Member Serge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Yeah, I dunno. Something continues to be elusive. As in, I'm finding it really hard to latch onto any one thing and understand it as some definitive type signal. On that basis alone I'm tempted to say INFJ, but even that's a shot in the dark. So you're on your own in the final determination of this one. What's your own type hypothesis currently?
    All S types are out. My Si is pathetic and while my Se is good, I don't use it in a dominant or auxiliary way ( I'm not physically coordinated nor do I typically get 'lost' in the moment all that frequently. It'd be nice if an ISFP could explain how frequently that happened to them.)

    All Ne types are out. Like I said, I'm very stubborn thinking wise. It takes a lot of factual information to make me suddenly think that the idea that I intuited might be wrong. I'm biased, what can I say.

    Dominant Te is a bit doubtful at this point. I've seen how ENTJs act and quite frankly, it's a bit mechanical and it's very efficient. ENTJs at my age tend to care nothing about the goal. If the goal is helping people? That's great! If not.....It can be a bit disastrous.

    Dominant Fe is very doubtful. I don't think I lead with Fe, this is the pinnacle of what makes me wary about being an INFJ. I don't want to intensely feel all the emotions everyone else is feeling nor do I want to be subjected to change because of that.

    Auxillary Te is likely but I'm starting to have my doubts. The INTJs I frequently hang out with online seem to have a different and less expressive vibe than I do which is obvious at this point. I just thought my Fi was on over kill. But I'm starting to notice that I'm not really interested in most theoretical discussions that don't revolve around people (I have a thing for Schrodinger's cat and quantum mechanics) and I also notice that when I'm hit with a big chart or just a big wave of 'logic' in the form of a post I can be slightly put off from reading it. For example an INTJ I know made a whole thread and chart to dialog his interaction with a woman..I was kinda taken aback. In real life my INTJ friend is remarkably similar to me in a few ways but he still seems a bit more reserved than me; he delivers his humor in a slight dead pan manner and now that I think about it, I don't really ever see him get all that excited. He's very sociable but he didn't seem to enjoy going out and meeting people (Well..basically...I was meeting girls and he had a girlfriend at the time (We met an a academic program for the 400 brightest of my state, it's basically college for 6 weeks for then juniors)), but I still invited him out places just to hang. I went out and meet people (I forced myself to, to develop as a person) he stayed in his room)

    Auxiliary Fe So...INFJ. I'm starting to believe I am one. Based on my interactions with INTJs, I tend to have the same top down concept building abilities that INTJs have but I also tend to look at the feelings involved in my bigger more important projects and I also tend to nit pick details and ask for definitions (I tend to have a definition that I like to use because that's what the word implies to me but it might be vastly different than what most people think. For example, the word nice guy doesn't mean spineless to me, it means someone who is assertive, confident, and all that. Because I think a nice guy has to be truthful to himself. And "nice guys" by normal people's definitions are kind of dicks in actuality) I also noticed today when I was reading my friend's blog about how she was very depressed and sad, I noticed that I got a slight bit of pain and I started to feel sad for her, and I felt like cheering her up. I'm markedly more expressive than most NTs (My INTP friend is very expressive and funny) and I also do care about how I look. Also, I tend to re-evaluate my morals and values every once in a while, I look at them to make sure they are logically consistent. Also, when I'm trying to decide something that my emotions have already made a decision on, I tend to look at what's right for me and what's right for me in a logical sense. Also, my friends and I noticed that I tend to give a lot of people the benefit of the doubt. If there is something reasonably decent about a person, if someone suspects them of wrongdoing, I'll try to examine the situation impartially. That's another thing, I'm very impartial. I've lost friends over it, but I feel that everyone should be given a chance to explain their actions and such. I don't join the band wagon of hate.

    So...I'm leaning towards INFJ. Just a few things I need to figure out.


    1. Why is my Ti so developed? Is it because certain introverts tend to lean on their introverted functions?
    2. If I have Fe, I care about people in general but I don't really care about people who aren't important to me. Is this a lack of Fe or just undeveloped Fe or perhaps I'm understanding the function wrong when combined with Ni.
    3. I handle disagreements by confronting the person and arguing. For someone who loves harmony (Fe) I can certainly abandon it when I feel wronged. I don't tend to have such an acute reaction for other people (but then again, I'm not close to a lot of people)
    4. Is the vast difference between my view of what an INFJ is and what an INFJ actually is caused by the fact that I'm an INFJ male and most INFJs are female?
    5. My ability to make contingency plans. Ni/Fe/Ti/Se can do that as well?

    I think that's it for now. (It's nearly 6 am right now, my post may not be coherent in all places)
    Johari/Nohari wall! Thanks in advance for filling it out.

    "Taste. I have no taste. I don't like these tiny portions or your artful abortions of sound, sealed with a kiss, slathered in the sauce sarcastic. So go choke on your irony"
    ~
    "Life for you, has been less than kind
    So take a number, stand in line
    We've all been sorry, we've all been hurt
    But how we survive, is what makes us who we are"


  8. #188
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    Why is my Ti so developed? Is it because certain introverts tend to lean on their introverted functions?
    I'm not sure, but one data point here.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...53-post26.html

    I'm not sure those free assessments are really that good though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    If I have Fe, I care about people in general but I don't really care about people who aren't important to me. Is this a lack of Fe or just undeveloped Fe or perhaps I'm understanding the function wrong when combined with Ni.
    It's an interesting question. I don't know if this means you don't have Fe though. Fe is about making decisions that create and maintain harmony in the external environment:
    - Internalizing cultural values and making them personal values
    - Judging others behavior based on group or cultural norms
    - Understanding what is important to other people
    - Building relationships with others by disclosing things about yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    I handle disagreements by confronting the person and arguing. For someone who loves harmony (Fe) I can certainly abandon it when I feel wronged. I don't tend to have such an acute reaction for other people (but then again, I'm not close to a lot of people)
    This would appear to be directly opposed to Fe. One of the many reasons that I think it likely you prefer Fi over Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    Is the vast difference between my view of what an INFJ is and what an INFJ actually is caused by the fact that I'm an INFJ male and most INFJs are female?
    I do think these things might bias us but in your case, not sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    My ability to make contingency plans. Ni/Fe/Ti/Se can do that as well?
    We're talking about preferences not strengths, so I don't think this is entirely relevant. That being said, it is considered a characteristic of INTJs and not necessarily INFJs.

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  9. #189
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Coming back to Fi - Fi is a decision making process that is based on your internal values. It is about making decisions based on your core beliefs, personal integrity, morals, and deeply held values. I like to think of it as your conscience.

    To the extent that Fi is used to perceive other's emotions, you are looking at your reactions to them. It is a little bit like Si in that respect.

    Some of your quotes below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    I don't feel a need to take care of others, people should be able to do that themselves. I don't think anyone should be taking care of me, either. And who wouldn't want to protect the innocent from the (presumptively) guilty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    I'm more about individual core values than I am connecting with others.. I tend to like being socially appropriate but I don't think it's something that runs my life or anything like that.

    I'm just prone to playing Devil's advocate.

    I don't place that much of my well being into other people. I like observing people but I don't expect them to play by my rules nor do I expect to change them into perfect little beings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    I like taking care of my closest friends if anything were ever to arise, but I don't think I value it to the point that I would sacrifice myself and my priorities just to make sure I don't disrupt the harmony of the group.

    I think that's really the main issue with me being an INFJ. I don't place other people above me in order of need (To be a be able to help someone, you need not need help yourself. If you can't say no or you're always bending to the will of others, I think that's a issue.) and I'm ready to cause chaos if something is wrong. I am direct and confrontational.
    I don't think it's about fitting the profile descriptions. It's more about preferences.

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  10. #190
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    So, based on the assumption that I'm an extrovert who is going through a introverted phase because I'm building my auxiliary function, my 'new' suspected type is now ENTJ?
    No way are you ENTJ. ENTJs are Fi-inferior -- you'd be a fucking robot if that were the case. As Kalach (ENTJ) so succintly illustrated, this thread would be over already.

    No, if you were an extrovert type you'd most likely be ESFP, with strong lower functions.
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