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  1. #41
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    Gracias papi Ezra.

  2. #42
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    I find these Enneagram descriptions to be too one-dimensional.

    I relate better to a combination of them (strongest aspects in bold)

    I'm generally very calm and peaceful like this:

    Have an aura of preternatural calm, like they haven't had a self-doubt in decades. May be gentle, kind-hearted, quieter. Often nurturing, protective parents; steady, supportive friends. Informal and unpretentious, patient, laconic, generally somewhat introverted. Sometimes a dry or ironic sense of humor. May have an aura of implicit, simmering anger rather like a sleeping volcano.

    Healthy connection to 5 brings mental clarity. Begin to think coherently; Eights are more strategic and systematic when this connection is active. Develop an objective perspective that helps them depersonalize and pull back from narcissistic overreaction. Take the long view, think things through, pause before they react. Can grow philosophical. Sometimes studious and introspective. May develop an intellectual streak, especially with a 7 wing. Connection also helps take the edge off Eight's addictive tendencies. They consume less, keep their own counsel, grow more moderate in their behavior.
    Ones with this wing can have an aura of 9-like calm although eruptions of temper are possible. Often have a detached quality and can be mistaken for Fives. Tendency to formulate and embrace principles that have little human content, but this is also their strength. When awakened, may be objective and balanced, cool and moderate in their evaluations. More entranced, might have perfectionistic expectations that are not humanly possible to meet. May hold social or political opinions that are supremely logical but ultimately heartless and draconian.
    Once I have thought out a plan of action, have a goal I need to achieve, or am having a good time with people, I act like this:

    Awakened Eights with a 7 wing are often expansive, and powerful. Gregarious and generous, they may display a cheerful bravado. Can be forceful but with a light touch, funny. Often have a sense of humor about themselves. Generally more extroverted, ambitious and materialistic. May talk loud and be sociable partygoers.

    Sometimes driven to bring the new into being. Can be visionary, idealistic, enterprising. Willing to take risks. May think more clearly than Eights with a 9 wing; 7 wing brings an intellectual capacity.

    When more entranced, aggression combines with gluttony to form an almost virulent tendency to addiction. Many entranced Eights with a 7 wing have had drug and alcohol problems or tensions around addiction. Prone to temperamental ups and downs - can be moody, egocentric, quick to anger. Tendency to court chaos, inflate themselves narcissistically. Some are ruthlessly materialistic. Can use people up, suck them dry. Maybe be explosive or violent, prone to distorted overreaction.

    Social Eights are often loyal to a group and conceive of friendship as a pact of mutual protection. Want everyone to benefit; group's cohesion and welfare is most important to them. Often oriented to family, honest, hold themselves accountable to others. May be the group's protector or provider. Emphasis on cooperation.

    When healthy, they are aggressively blustery but will back down and apologize when they've been unfair. More able to say the Three Little Words -"I was wrong." Stronger connection to 2, can emotionally switch places with others in their chosen group. As friends they want to protect what's soft or young in you and appreciate the same in return. Hostility directed towards outside forces who threatens the group's welfare
    It's the alternation of NT thinking and strategizing with EJ action and EN spontaneity/cheerfulness.

    Oh, and all this thing about strength in 8's, etc. For me strength = competence. I am really not especially strong physically. I'm tall but of average complexion. I also am not at all physically aggressive. I don't back down from physical confrontation though. I think ENTJ's, being NT's and "nerdy" at heart, lead more through their sheer self-confidence, competence and charisma.

  3. #43
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkw View Post
    Very well then. I know that I am a 5. I know I am sp/sx. But am I 5w4 or 5w6? I can't decide. It keeps switching back and forth. I am very irritated by this. Which am I?
    To expound on your question, why is it necessary to distinguish one's wing since the variant stacking gives similar descriptions? For example in Merkw's case, here is a description of 5sp/sx:
    This subtype, like the self-pres/social, is more typical of the depictions of type Five. The self-preservational instinct accentuates the self-contained, withdrawing tendencies of the Five. Fives of this subtype love their time alone with a passion, and pursue it more actively even than the other subtype of self-pres Five, although with the sexual instinct second, they often want to find time for intimates as well. On the down side, they have more disdain for people and little use for the social aspects of life. They want to be left alone or they want to share their inner world with their intimates. The intensity of the sexual instinct is reserved for their intimates and even there it is sporadic. The self-pres energy gives this subtype a solid foundation and some degree of practicality.

    These Fives are conflicted when it comes to experiencing and expressing emotions. They usually default to emotional repression and to detached intellectual analysis. This is a dynamic common to all Fives, but with the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking, the balance of these forces is pretty precarious and it seems as though the scales are being constantly adjusted one way or another. As the social instinct is the least developed, the social arena gets the drier more intellectual approach almost by default.
    This type description as an example could fit 5w4 or 5w6, depending on which fits best. It could also be be a comibination, however it seems that 5w4 may be most like the so/sx subtype.

  4. #44
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Maverick, you're just like this other guy on the16types, an LIE (ENTj) and INTJ in MBTT. He calls himself an 8w9, but I think he's a 5w6 or 6w5.

    Basically, he believes the types are too one dimensional, and that it is much harder to fit some people into Enneagram types than it is to fit them into socionics types.

    If I was to take a stab at you, I'd say you a bit like me; an 8w9 with a strong, healthy link to 5. Contrary to what you say about my own link to 5, I've seen the healthy aspects of it in me, and I think in you they're simply more developed.

    However, there are two further possibilities. Firstly, that you are a healthy 5 who has begun to show characteristics of the 8; the 5's security point. Alternatively, you're a 1w9. The only reason I say this is because of your point about competence. 5s and 1s love competence. However, if you're an 8w9, this could just be because you're an ENTJ, and so naturally and by definition are attracted to competence.

  5. #45
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    My type is most likely 9 so/sp/sx:
    Social Nines feel the need for validation and for "fitting in" but they feel these indirectly. They move towards others in a way which can resemble Twos, but they are motivated by a desire to initiate and maintain contact without provoking conflict. On the high side, the social/self-pres Nine generally knows a lot of people and gets along with most everyone. They are helpful people who generally have a great sense of humor. They get involved with the social environment. They might be the soccer coach, or if politically inclined, they might join and participate in a political party. When in leadership roles, they lead by consensus and charm. Their skill is in conflict management. With the sexual instinct last, they tend to avoid intensity, but they are actively involved with people.

    Intimate relationships might be frustrating for the partner of this subtype of Nine because the Nine's social engagements might make the partner feel as though the Nine is connected with everyone except them. Sometimes this subtype can use their social connections in a passive-aggressive way against the partner; they might withhold attention from the partner in lieu of spending time with friends.
    I personally think this could, and most likely is, 9w8 more than 9w1. Since I generally score equally (within one point) and very low on 8 and 1, I have come out as 9 omni on occasion.

  6. #46
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    I took some enneagram tests (again), here are the results:
    test1
    Type 1 -7
    Type 2 5
    Type 3 -4
    Type 4 -2
    Type 5 -7
    Type 6 1
    Type 7 3
    Type 8 3
    Type 9 8

    test 2

    Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||| 54%
    Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||| 46%
    Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||||| 54%
    Type 4 Hypersensitivity |||| 18%
    Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||||| 58%
    Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||||||||| 62%
    Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||||||||| 66%
    Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||| 46%
    Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||||||| 66%

    I feel more 9 inside than 7 althought I have lot of 7 in me too. So I cannot decide. What can you tell me about 9w8 and 7w8?
    Type 1: 6
    Type 2: -10
    Type 3: -3
    Type 4: 6
    Type 5: 9

    Type 6: -11
    Type 7: 2
    Type 8: -2
    Type 9: 3

    Type 1 Perfectionism |||||| 26%
    Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||| 50%
    Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||| 38%
    Type 4 Hypersensitivity |||||||||||||||| 62%
    Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||||||||| 74%
    Type 6 Anxiety |||||| 30%
    Type 7 Adventurousness |||||| 22%
    Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||| 42%
    Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||||| 58%

    My MBTI results are usually very strong I, very strong N, moderately strong T, and weak to borderline P.
    Autistic INFP


  7. #47
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Descriptions that sound like me are bolded.

    five with four wing


    general description

    Average 5/4 is the prototype personality for research scientists. Analytical and detached from their emotions, but passionate about beauty and truth, they want to find the ultimate, simple explanation for everything. Their intellectual fiveness makes them likely to engage in long, professorial monologues, while their four-wing gives them a shy self-consciousness. Unlike the more depressive 4/5, they are likely to have a generally optimistic view, although they can get depressed if they become overwhelmed by the world's demands. 5/4s are usually less interested in social interactions than the more other-dependent 5/6.


    balanced and transcendent states

    Balanced 5/4 is more able to participate in life. When the fiveish desire to withdraw and sort things out is no longer compulsive, then the consciously chosen time alone becomes a tool for understanding the world, rather than an entrapping habit. The fourish passion for beauty emerges as the conscious result of harnessing the emotions rather than being their slave. Healthy 5/4s begin to deeply understand the simple, elegant way that the awesome complexity of the world emerges from fundamental principles. They find great joy in watching and learning.

    When the perception of five and the passion of four are augmented by eight's power and leadership, plus one's intuitive wisdom, clear comprehensions can be transmitted to others. Very balanced 5/4s can be tremendously creative teachers of How The World Works, who explain things with clean, elegant sentences. Yet for all its simple clarity, their teaching carries with it a profound appreciation for the subtle beauty of Creation. Come with me on a journey of discovery. Let's look together at the awsome profundity of Nature and Consciousness.


    unbalanced and unhealthy states

    Unbalanced 5/4 gets lost in the details. The compulsive analysis of five can lead to elaborate pseudo-logical constructions designed to explain everything. The four-wing's emotionality adds a flavor of dramatic hopelessness. Others Simply Do Not Understand. No one could understand. So 5/4 retreats to a place of safety, hoping to escape from view, continuing to uncover the truth. There is little to no social involvement.

    In the extreme, the panic and scattered mania of seven combine with twoish self-congratulatory hysteria. In a seeming reversal, 5/4 can come back into the world, awkward and excitable, ready to bolt but equally ready to passionately defend a bizarre, baroque fantasy world. As inner tension builds, schizoid withdrawal becomes more and more likely. The end result is a kind of terrified fugue, completely cut off from reality. The only escape from the constant overwhelming chaos is inward.
    Autistic INFP


  8. #48
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Taylor S, there are test which result in your variant stacking. They will give a more detailed description since with the enneagram and wing combined gives only 18 descriptions, the variant will produce 81 types. I am inclined as Maverick to consider the E-type and wing alone to be one-dimensional. I studied the enneagram years before becoming aware of MBTI and one reason that I went back to the enneagram was to determine my variants.

    Some people have misunderstandings of the stackings, taking the language too literal, i.e. sexual has to do with sex, soical has to do with being a social person, etc. Here are some excerpts from Riso & Hudson's site:
    Self Preservation:

    These people are quick to notice any problems in a room such as poor lighting or uncomfortable chairs, or to be dissatisfied with the room temperature. They often have issues connected with food and drink, either overdoing it or having strict dietary requirements. In the healthy to average Levels, of the three Instinctual types, they are the most practical in the sense of taking care of basic life necessities—paying bills, maintaining the home and workplace, acquiring useful skills, and so forth. When these types deteriorate, they tend to distort the instinct to the degree that they are poor at taking care of themselves. Unhealthy Self-Preservation types eat and sleep poorly or become obsessed with health issues. They often have difficulty handling money and may act out in deliberately self-destructive ways. In a nutshell, Self-Preservation types are focused on enhancing their personal security and physical comfort.

    Social:

    This subtype is focused on their interactions with other people and with the sense of value or esteem they derive from their participation in collective activities. These include work, family, hobbies, clubs—basically any arena in which Social types can interact with others for some shared purpose. Within that social instinct, however, are many other implicit imperatives, and primary among them is the understanding of "place" within a hierarchical social structure. Thus, the desire for attention, recognition, honor, success, fame, leadership, appreciation, and the safety of belonging can all be seen as manifestations of the Social instinct. Social types like to know what is going on around them, and want to make some kind of contribution to the human enterprise. There is often an interest in the events and activities of one's own culture, or sometimes, of another culture. In general, Social types enjoy interacting with people, but they avoid intimacy. In their imbalanced, unhealthy forms, these types can become profoundly antisocial, detesting people and resenting their society, or having poorly developed social skills. In a nutshell, Social types are focused on interacting with people in ways that will build their personal value, their sense of accomplishment, and their security of "place" with others.

    Sexual:

    Much has been said about this type preferring "one-on-one" relationships versus the Social type's preference for "larger groups," but a quick poll of one's acquaintances will reveal that almost all people prefer communicating one on one than in a group. The question is more one of the intensity of contact, and the strength of the desire for intimacy. In their neurotic forms, this type can manifest with a wandering lack of focus, sexual promiscuity and acting out, or just the opposite, in a fearful, dysfunctional attitude toward sex and intimacy. Sexual types, however, will be intense, even about their avoidances. In a nutshell, Sexual types are focused on having intense, intimate interactions and experiences with others and with the environment to give them a powerful sense of "aliveness."

  9. #49
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Since I generally score equally (within one point) and very low on 8 and 1, I have come out as 9 omni on occasion.
    I tend not to trust the tests anymore for wings. Okay, it'll give you a general feel of your type, but I've been on multiple tests giving my result 8w7 and 8w9, even though I know I'm not omni. I know I'm 8w7. It's because I don't answer 'Yes' to questions like 'I crave adventure' that I score low on 7, and because I answer 'Yes' to questions like 'I am calm' that mean I score high on 9.

    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Some people have misunderstandings of the stackings, taking the language too literal, i.e. sexual has to do with sex, soical has to do with being a social person, etc.
    But socials will understand, for example, group power dynamics or social cohesion. They will be focused on it in one way or another. Likewise, the sexual will have an aptitude for understanding and will be focused on the chemistry of relationships between individuals; and thus, for a sx-first 8, as sex is a very important of any loving relationship, it will undoubtedly be mentioned. For me, an sp-first 8, I like my security, but I also like to fend for myself. I know my needs; this is what I am adept it, and thus it is always conscious in my mind as to the remedies I need to fix a problem. Okay, maybe others have some level of skill in this, but it's a constant focus for me.

  10. #50
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Somebody please type me. I typically swing between 2,4,5

    Test results:

    1.
    Type 1 Type 2 Type 3 Type 4 Type 5 Type 6 Type 7 Type 8 Type 9
    -7 5 -1 5 3 -1 -2 -7 5


    2.
    Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||||| 66%
    Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||||||| 62%
    Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||| 50%
    Type 4 Hypersensitivity |||||||||||||||||| 74%
    Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||||||||| 74%
    Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||||||||| 66%
    Type 7 Adventurousness |||||| 30%
    Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||| 42%
    Type 9 Calmness |||||||||| 34%

    3.
    Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||| 51%
    Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||||||||| 72%
    Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||||||| 62%
    Type 4 Hypersensitivity |||||||||||||| 55%
    Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||||||| 67%
    Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||||||| 55%
    Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||| 34%
    Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||| 47%
    Type 9 Calmness |||||||||| 31%

    sp/so/sx

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