Trouble Enneagram-Typing Yourself? Come To Papa

[INTJMom]

Ok. Actually, since I wrote this, I took 4 tests and came out 1, 4, 5, & 8.

Xander thinks I'm a One. I could be, but I think I'm a Five.

Thanks for the links.

 

[heart]

I come out type 5 consistantly but sometimes I am wing 4 and sometimes wing 6.

 

[INTJMom]

The results of the Classic EE test:

You are most likely a type 1.
Taking wings into account, you seem to be a 1w9

Wing 1w9 - 11.8
Wing 1w2 - 11
Wing 5w4 - 8.8
Wing 5w6 - 8.3
Wing 9w1 - 8.2

Type 1 - 10.3
Type 5 - 7.7
Type 3 - 5.3
Type 9 - 3
Type 2 - 1.3

 

[INTJMom]

The results of the Enneagram test with instinctual variant -

You are most likely a type 5 (the Investigator) with 4 wing

 

[Ezra]

INTJMom, I advise you to read this:

Misidentifying Ones and Fives

Ones and Fives both correspond to Jungian thinking types - the One to the extroverted thinking type (PT, 381-82) and the Five to the introverted thinking type, or to what we suggest might better be termed the "subjective" thinking type (PT, 177-78). The main difference between them can be discerned from the fact that they are in two different Triads: Ones are an instinctive type and Fives are a thinking type. While Ones certainly do think, they are primarily people of action, and are only interested in ideas that lead to some practical result. Fives, however, are truly a mental type: they can ponder any proposition or idea and do not particularly care about its practical ramifications.
Contrary to popular notions, opinions and beliefs have their basis in the instincts, in the gut. When we assert a position ("This is absolutely the way it is!") the certainty of our view comes from our gut. If we are present enough to notice, we can feel this when we express a strong opinion. And indeed, Ones are people of strong convictions and opinions as befitting a type in the Instinctive (or Gut) Triad. Average to unhealthy Ones are entirely convinced of the rightness of their views, and respect people who hold similar strength in their convictions. They think as a way of buttressing their already established beliefs. Average to unhealthy Fives tend to get lost in a maze of uncertainty. They may develop elaborate theories or positions only to overturn them soon after. While less healthy Fives may assert provocative views, they are more interested in disturbing the certainty of others than in convincing others that they have the correct view. Unhealthy Fives may want to feel smarter than the other person, and even argue points that they do not personally agree with just to prove to themselves that they can mentally "run circles" around others. As they become less healthy, Ones become more rigid and fixed in their views about things: Fives become more uncertain, nihilistic, and afraid that they cannot arrive at any kind of meaning or truth.
Similarly, they differ most markedly in the One's emphasis on certainty and judgment and the Five's relative lack of certainty and difficulty with discernment. (While healthy Ones have excellent judgment, average Ones are merely judgmental - still, making judgments about the world around them is one of the principal ways in which their extroverted thinking manifests itself.) Judgment is not as centrally important to Fives. They want to understand how the world works on a theoretical level or create inner worlds of imagination that are interesting and amusing to them. Thus, Fives tend to be detached from the practical world and intensely involved with complex mental constructs. And while healthy Fives observe and interact with the real world around them, average Fives, as they become more deeply enthralled by their own cerebral landscapes, lose their capacity to make accurate assessments about the truth, significance, or accuracy of their ideas. They gradually care less about an idea's objective rightness than about how their ideas relate to other thoughts that arise in their minds. By contrast, Ones employ thinking so that they can relate more perfectly to the world: their focus is on making rules and procedures for the progress and improvement of themselves and their world. Average Ones are not as detached from the world, or as withdrawn as average Fives are: although they may be cool and impersonal, and somewhat overly reserved, Ones are keenly interested in applying their principles to daily life.
Thus, Ones and Fives are opposites in the way they judge and evaluate reality. Ones judge situations from idealistic standards based on what they think should be the case. Fives are constantly investigating and questioning assumptions, not to mention standards and principles. Ones are deductive, operating from principles to specific applications; Fives are inductive, operating from given data to form more sweeping theories. Both are philosophical, and love knowledge: Ones as a means of perfecting the world, Fives as a way of discovering more about the world. Ones tend to be teachers and moralists, not inventors and iconoclasts like Fives. The difference between these types can be seen by comparing George Bernard Shaw (a One) and Isaac Newton (a Five), Margaret Thatcher (a One) and Susan Sontag (a Five).

I don't think it's a case of your being a One, Four, Five or Eight. I think that because you score highly on One, you also score highly on Eight. They're similar kinds of people. I myself have often thought I might be a One as opposed to an Eight. But I realise my fundamental motivation. I score consistently highly on One, Three, Five and Eight. I explained the One-Eight link. The Three link comes with one's being a highly competent individual (One-related issue, with a bit of confidence from the Eight). The Five's link is with the Eight; the Five is the Eights stress point, and the Eight is the Five's security point.

Anyway, back to you. I think that if you're a Five, you're a 5w4. The high score on Eight might also be to do with the fact that you could be a healthy Five who has either integrated into Eight, or who is at least secure at Eight. Nonetheless, bear in mind my previous remarks about the differences between the Eight and the One.

Now, in my eyes, INTJ is compatible with three of your four results; One, Five and Eight. This makes it no easier for us. However, since you think you're more balanced on the T/F dichotomy, this could rule out Eight, since the chances of you finding an INFJ Eight are as rare as finding a needle in a haystack. If you understand the workings of the Eight (which I do because I am one) and of the INFJ (which I assume you do), you will see why they are incompatible. Both INTJ and INFJ are perfectly compatible with the One, and I'm sure you'd find an INFJ Five quite easily; especially one with a Four wing (INFJ is amongst the most common of types for the 4w5, and there is a lot in common between the 4w5 and the 5w4).

I come out type 5 consistantly but sometimes I am wing 4 and sometimes wing 6.

No problem there then. Your situation is similar to mine. I score consistently as both 8w9 and 8w7, sometimes even balanced.

 

[INTJMom]

Okay. One bite at a time...

"Ones and Fives both correspond to Jungian thinking types - the One to the extroverted thinking type (PT, 381-82) and the Five to the introverted thinking type, or to what we suggest might better be termed the "subjective" thinking type (PT, 177-78). The main difference between them can be discerned from the fact that they are in two different Triads: Ones are an instinctive type and Fives are a thinking type."

Since INTJs are NiTe, is this saying that INTJs are Ones?

 

[INTJMom]

This first part sounds more like me.

"While Ones certainly do think, they are primarily people of action, and are only interested in ideas that lead to some practical result. Fives, however, are truly a mental type: they can ponder any proposition or idea and do not particularly care about its practical ramifications."

 

[INTJMom]

I think I am more like the One described here also...

"making judgments about the world around them is one of the principal ways in which their extroverted thinking manifests itself.) Judgment is not as centrally important to Fives. They want to understand how the world works on a theoretical level"

The Fives sound like INTPs, to me.

 

[redacted]

my INTJ friend is one of the most blatant fives i've ever met.

just to put that out there.

 

[tovlo]

I'd like to play.

I have had stretches in the past of typing 4, 9, and most recently 2 (the typing as a 2 is a recent phenomenon).

Here are my similar mind results (taken tonight):

Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||||||| 70%
Type 4 Hypersensitivity |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||| 50%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||| 38%
Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||| 34%
Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||| 34%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||| 14%

sp/so/sx

And the Enneagram Institute results (taken tonight):

Type 4 - 7
Type 9 - 7
Type 1 - 5
Type 2 - 4
Type 5 - 4
Type 3 - 3
Type 6 - 3
Type 7 - 3
Type 8 - 0

I have most often considered myself a type 4 without an identifiable wing.

However, there are things about type 9 and type 2 that could be me as well. I do like the description of a type 4 and in a way actually feel slightly unworthy of it. I dislike the idea of being a type 2. I'm mostly indifferent to type 9.

Any thoughts?

 

[Athenian200]

I do like the description of a type 4 and in a way actually feel slightly unworthy of it. I dislike the idea of being a type 2. I'm mostly indifferent to type 9.

Any thoughts?

Yes, you're almost definitely a 4 if you feel that way.

4's can disintegrate into 2's under stress, just so you know.

 

[Ezra]

INTJMom, it's not about dissecting it bit by bit; I can't do your maths for you. Sorry to dishearten you. Just get the gist of what applies to you most; One or Five, and you will have the answer as to your type. Also, try and get hold of The Wisdom of the Enneagram or indeed any meaty Enneagram book. Read the chapters on One and Five. I can assure you that one type will stand out more than the other after rigorous study (something INTJs are good at ) of each type, and of both types comparatively.

I'd like to play.

I have had stretches in the past of typing 4, 9, and most recently 2 (the typing as a 2 is a recent phenomenon).

Here are my similar mind results (taken tonight):

Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||||||| 70%
Type 4 Hypersensitivity |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||| 50%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||| 38%
Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||| 34%
Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||| 34%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||| 14%

sp/so/sx

And the Enneagram Institute results (taken tonight):

Type 4 - 7
Type 9 - 7
Type 1 - 5
Type 2 - 4
Type 5 - 4
Type 3 - 3
Type 6 - 3
Type 7 - 3
Type 8 - 0

I have most often considered myself a type 4 without an identifiable wing.

However, there are things about type 9 and type 2 that could be me as well. I do like the description of a type 4 and in a way actually feel slightly unworthy of it. I dislike the idea of being a type 2. I'm mostly indifferent to type 9.

Any thoughts?

4w5, who identifies with both your security (One) and stress (Two) points. The reason you scored highly in Nine is to do with the external similarities between the two types. If you want to know more about that, visit here.

 

[Eileen]

I believe that I'm a 4w5 (the descriptions of levels of health resonate a lot), but I've wondered whether I could be a 6 or a 2. What do you need to know?

 

[INTJMom]

INTJMom, it's not about dissecting it bit by bit; I can't do your maths for you. Sorry to dishearten you. Just get the gist of what applies to you most; One or Five, and you will have the answer as to your type. Also, try and get hold of The Wisdom of the Enneagram or indeed any meaty Enneagram book. Read the chapters on One and Five. I can assure you that one type will stand out more than the other after rigorous study (something INTJs are good at ) of each type, and of both types comparatively.
...

One thing that I have found frustrating is the variance of Enne. descriptions online. Are there some resources that are more trustworthy and accurate than others?

While I may be a One, which is classified as the "perfectionist" in most places, perfectionism is something I have been fighting with most of my life. It tortures me. It paralyzes me. It leaves me groveling in the mud with the worms, so it's something I have been trying to let go of. Frankly, I wonder if there is any such thing as "healthy perfectionism" at all.

 

[Zybd03]

One thing that I have found frustrating is the variance of Enne. descriptions online. Are there some resources that are more trustworthy and accurate than others?

While I may be a One, which is classified as the "perfectionist" in most places, perfectionism is something I have been fighting with most of my life. It tortures me. It paralyzes me. It leaves me groveling in the mud with the worms, so it's something I have been trying to let go of. Frankly, I wonder if there is any such thing as "healthy perfectionism" at all.

I have read several Enneagram books and the one's I purchased are by Kathleen Hurley and Theodore Dobson. He later changed his name to Theodorre Donson.

The titles are: What's My Type, Discover Your Soul Potential, and My Best Self

I listed them in my order of preference. The best thing about What's My Type is it explains your type and then how to maximize your functioning as that type. I found these books more helpful than anything online.

The best test I've found is the Riso-Hudson test. They published a book which I borrowed from the library. The test is quite detailed. I had tested online as a Type 5, but the Riso-Hudson test listed me as a Type 9. When I read Hurley's description of the 9, it was me exactly. When my wife read the description, she totally agreed.

 

[INTJMom]

I have read several Enneagram books and the one's I purchased are by Kathleen Hurley and Theodore Dobson. He later changed his name to Theodorre Donson.

The titles are: What's My Type, Discover Your Soul Potential, and My Best Self

I listed them in my order of preference. The best thing about What's My Type is it explains your type and then how to maximize your functioning as that type. I found these books more helpful than anything online.

The best test I've found is the Riso-Hudson test. They published a book which I borrowed from the library. The test is quite detailed. I had tested online as a Type 5, but the Riso-Hudson test listed me as a Type 9. When I read Hurley's description of the 9, it was me exactly. When my wife read the description, she totally agreed.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Unfortunately, What's My Type isn't at my local library, but it is at a library in a town I visit every now and then. I will make sure I get it.

I took a free sample test of the Riso-Hudson test online the other day.
It was 36 questions.
The results were One/Four

Type 1: The Reformer. The rational, idealistic type.
Type 4: The Artist. The intuitive, reserved type.

Exactly.

 

[tovlo]

Yes, you're almost definitely a 4 if you feel that way.

4's can disintegrate into 2's under stress, just so you know.

As soon as I read this, I remembered having spoken with you about this in the past. I recall at that time I went and read the descriptions of 4 at various stages of disintegration. My resonance at the time with the unhealthy levels of 4 was alarming. I felt pretty certain then I was a type 4 under heavy stress.

4w5, who identifies with both your security (One) and stress (Two) points. The reason you scored highly in Nine is to do with the external similarities between the two types. If you want to know more about that, visit here.

I'm still likely under stress given my continued high 2 score, but thankfully I feel much less resonance with the unhealthy expression of type 4. I do recall in reading the levels of type 4 expression also recalling times in my life where I looked very much like healthy levels of type 4.

So I think you are both likely correct that I am type 4.

As for the questioning of type 9, the link you provided, Ezra, was enlightening. This section in particular:

Even so, the artistry of Fours is much more personal and self-revealing than that of Nines. The art of Nines often expresses idealized, mythological, and archetypal worlds - usually the real world glossed into something fantastic and wondrous. Nines are often gifted storytellers in which "...and they all lived happily ever after" is assured. (There are no unhappy endings in the Nine's world of make-believe.) By contrast, the art of Fours is generally more personal and realistic, the expression of the Four's (and of everyone's) deep longing for love, wholeness, and meaning. Fours often deal in the tragic, finding redemption in self-transcendence; Nines deal in the commonplace, finding comfort in ordinary lives and simple situations.

My resonance with the bolded sections was deafening.

 

[Ezra]

I believe that I'm a 4w5 (the descriptions of levels of health resonate a lot), but I've wondered whether I could be a 6 or a 2. What do you need to know?

I need to know why you think you could be a Six or a Two. What are your reasons for thinking that you may be one of these types?

One thing that I have found frustrating is the variance of Enne. descriptions online. Are there some resources that are more trustworthy and accurate than others?

IMO, yes. If the information is free, it should be treated with caution. If it costs, it should still be treated with caution, although I have my full faith in Palmer's and Riso & Hudson's material. That is essentially the basis of the Enneagram as we know it. Many prefer either one or the other, but I think they both offer good interpretations of the same theory. However, credit must go to Oscar Ichazo and Claudio Naranjo for practically inventing the Enneagram of personality.

While I may be a One, which is classified as the "perfectionist" in most places, perfectionism is something I have been fighting with most of my life. It tortures me. It paralyzes me. It leaves me groveling in the mud with the worms, so it's something I have been trying to let go of. Frankly, I wonder if there is any such thing as "healthy perfectionism" at all.

Can you go into more depth of how you perceive your perfectionism, or potential desire/need to be good or perfect?

I took a free sample test of the Riso-Hudson test online the other day.
It was 36 questions.
The results were One/Four

Type 1: The Reformer. The rational, idealistic type.
Type 4: The Artist. The intuitive, reserved type.

Exactly.

INTJMom, I don't know if I asked you to or if you did, but take the SimilarMinds test. It's quite reliable. The problem with the free 36-question RHETI test is that it simply isn't long enough to give you the accurate typing you're looking for. If you're serious, I definitely recommend either purchasing (or perhaps even borrowing if you're lucky) the 144 question RHETI test. There's no more accurate a way to determine your Enneagram type IMO, and I'd say many others would probably agree.

As for the questioning of type 9, the link you provided, Ezra, was enlightening. This section in particular:

My resonance with the bolded sections was deafening.

It's a good description is that. There was one point in my life where I didn't think I was a Four, but perhaps had Four in my trifix, and after reading this when I was helping someone determine their type, I recognised that the 'romantic' bits in me were actually much more identifiable in the Nine as opposed to the Four.

 

[INTJMom]

...
INTJMom, I don't know if I asked you to or if you did, but take the SimilarMinds test. It's quite reliable. The problem with the free 36-question RHETI test is that it simply isn't long enough to give you the accurate typing you're looking for. If you're serious, I definitely recommend either purchasing (or perhaps even borrowing if you're lucky) the 144 question RHETI test. There's no more accurate a way to determine your Enneagram type IMO, and I'd say many others would probably agree.
...

I took one online that was 14 pages long. Now which one was that? One of the ones you sent me to, I believe.

 

[INTJMom]

The results of the Classic EE test:

You are most likely a type 1.
Taking wings into account, you seem to be a 1w9

Wing 1w9 - 11.8
Wing 1w2 - 11
Wing 5w4 - 8.8
Wing 5w6 - 8.3
Wing 9w1 - 8.2

Type 1 - 10.3
Type 5 - 7.7
Type 3 - 5.3
Type 9 - 3
Type 2 - 1.3

This one was 14 pages and had over 100 questions I think.