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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Sorry. I was only responding to this. You were right. I am not going to have the trouble you had. I don't have much or any trouble with recall.
    S'ok. I will say, I can recall specific occurances, but when I say some were cloudy that was somewhat due to blackouts during childhood, as were general 'bad' memories I still remember and some good ones too, in which some memories have returned 'spontaneously' as a teen and triggered a whole slew of memories I'd forgotten (kinda cool, if I disregard what actually happend lol). I had a head injury when I was 15 and although the incidient is still vivid in my mind, I don't really remember what happened before or after it. Then again, I may remember it ten years from now o.o''

    I should've said memories were cloudly, not emotions. Silly me.

  2. #102
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    What do you think is more likely?
    I know I'm not a 1w2. I think I might be the third option: a 4 integrated at 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    If 4w5 doesn't mean anything to you just yet, don't label yourself that way. Wait until it either does make perfect sense as the rightful you or until another equally wonderful type comes along and dissects you like no other It seems silly to choose one now because INFJs are __ lol I know we INFJs like to take instruction from others and our own type, but come on, you take away from your experience when you cop out !You'd still be an INFJ if you're a 6 until it's proven otherwise, so no worries for now~

    If you want I don't mind sending a bit more info on both types. I suggest doing the Quick Sorting Test at the bottom of the second link I gave first. It should narrow it down for you. Unless from all this you've finally concluded your first task

    However narrowed, before each individual chappie on each Type they have a test. Each Type chapter is roughly 30 pages. But really... GET THE BOOK! hehe No more crappy online tests! Rejoice!

    Edit: One last selfish plug. As a 4, I'm more invested in firstly knowing myself, exploring myself and then using that self-knowledge and experience into helping others, however that may be. I don't too much about 1s but from the little I've read I've surmised they might use the social norms to crusade their causes and I read that they try to control external order. I think as a 4, wanting 'uniqueness' etc, we'd go against the norms in order to show our differences (that it's also not a bad thing.).

    Hope I was helpful
    Awesome!!! Thanks for the insight. I have seen that book in the bookstore I go to as well as other Enneagram books. I wasn't sure which one to get (they all seem to be by the same author) so I just didn't get any of them . Do you recommend that one as the better? I ask this because I bought Type Talk and Please Understand Me II, and in the end I got all the same information but in better depth by buying Personality Type: An Owner's Manual. I didn't want to waste money buying mediocre books, lol.

    So if I am understanding right, a healthy 4 can extend out to inherit some 1 characteristics? I would say that I try to impress people more by trying to show them that I am unique, but I do like to show my integrity as well, but not to as much of an extent.

    I took the test on the webpage you linked to and I typed as a 4. I actually prefer that test over others I have taken. It was nice, brief, and informative about the other types.

    I use a software called Character Pro 5 that helps you create fictional characters by using the enneagram, which helps me create realistic, consistent characters for fiction. I guess writing as a creative outlet is a very 4-like attribute? I'm sure if I'm a 4 I would be a 5-wing, because the 4w3 description sounds nothing like me.

    Here's the 4w5 descriptions from Character Pro 5(excluding story related field, like story arc suggestions, etc.):

    Basic Profile:
    Wedekit is the introverted artistic type. He looks inside the heart for the answers, creating outer expressions of that self and deciding on who he is by what comes out. This subtype is introverted and really considers what he thinks as the real qualifier. He is in this to discover himself and not to make money or find fame. Wedekit can be reclusive and painfully shy. However, he has successfully found within himself a universal thing, something that comes out through the artwork, that is, his expression of self. This universality draws people to him. He reacts with warmth and humor, enjoying the feeling of being unique. Creative, passionate, empathetic.

    Childhood:
    Wedekit never identified with either parent. His parents seemed to be from another planet, so he was left alone to discover his own personality. This self-discovery became his life mission and his only option was to look inside to see what he could find. As a child, he tried to fit in by compromising his authentic self because he didn't feel safe. He always regretted this. As an adult, he is introspective, even to the point of losing himself in thought, becoming reclusive at times, staying away from distracting people, noise and activity.

    Dialogue Style:
    Wedekit can be very shy and discovering his feelings and opinions about things can be next to impossible. Eventually, once a safe place has been established, amazing insights and perceptions come out of this person. He can be self-revealing and emotionally honest. He has visited a pretty incredible place, the soul of a person. He has an understanding like no one else and can be very perceptive about others. Sometimes seeming psychic.

    Dialogue Examples:
    External Dialogue: "He's like that because he's lonely." "I don't feel like going out tonight." "I always trust my gut."
    Internal Dialogue: "I'm unique. I feel good when I'm different."
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    Awesome!!! Thanks for the insight.
    You're most welcome~


    Do you recommend that one as the better? I ask this because I bought Type Talk and Please Understand Me II, and in the end I got all the same information but in better depth by buying Personality Type: An Owner's Manual. I didn't want to waste money buying mediocre books, lol.
    It's my Enneagram Holy Text, if you will. I believe Ezra has been pimping it from the start. I concur, I pimp it out too. I can't compare to other books, however, as it was the one and only book I bought and it was more than insightful for me. I did peer through it before purchasing. It's truly an indepth monster. It'll eat you out Amazon should have an excerpt or something, but the "Search inside Book" thingie on the side won't work for me anymore for any book -.-'' Try it if you can. I suspect though it won't be different from the page I put before. *shrugs* Buy the book~~... #___#''

    So if I am understanding right, a healthy 4 can extend out to inherit some 1 characteristics? I would say that I try to impress people more by trying to show them that I am unique, but I do like to show my integrity as well, but not to as much of an extent.
    Not exactly so. It's not that you inherit traits, it's that you exhibit them, I'd say. I'm relating a chunk from the book on Direction of Disintegration. When a 4 shifts---> 2 "it manifests when we are in a period of increased stress or uncertainty. When we have pushed the strategy of our own type as far as it can go (....), and it is not improving our situation or getting what we want, we will unconsciously start to behave like the type in our Direction of Disintegration. ....this is called acting out .....tend to be unconscious and compulsive, although they are not necessarily immediately destructive......." And a lot more on that, but I'm sure you'll be saying "that's me!" Well, there's more of you in the book, so go get it! lol

    I'll add to that, for myself, when I disintegrate it happens after a period of withdrawal. I want to connect to people again and maybe I come off too strong with the "I wanna help you!" (btw, just came off a withdrawal so I'm probably doing it right now lmao At least I can recognise it for what it is ). I think it's because we might not now how to relate after being so couped up inside or we feel as though we were so selfish/indulgent and try to rectify it. Does this seem similiar for you?

    Speaking from experience, I loved being called different and weird in a cool-freaky way and special. I also thought highly of being 'myself and no one else' and of integrity too. I smote bullies as a kid whenever I had the chance and then turned them into my friends ^_^''

    I took the test on the webpage you linked to and I typed as a 4. I actually prefer that test over others I have taken. It was nice, brief, and informative about the other types.
    They have another 15 question test beginning with each Type. Just as short, sweet.

    I use a software called Character Pro 5 that helps you create fictional characters by using the enneagram, which helps me create realistic, consistent characters for fiction. I guess writing as a creative outlet is a very 4-like attribute?
    I don't know how 4-like that is but I want it Although, I prefer to discover people or create people on my own, the tool seems a nice help.

    I'm sure if I'm a 4 I would be a 5-wing, because the 4w3 description sounds nothing like me.
    As from the Holy Text, though it's not all of it:

    4w3: The Aristrocrat when Healthy will combine creativity and ambition, the desire for self-improvement and an eye toward achieving goals, often involving personal advancement. More social than the people of the other subtype and want to be both succesfull and distinctive.

    4w5: The Bohemian when Healthy tends to be extremely creativite, combining emotionality and introspection with perceptivenesss and originality. Less concerned with acceptance and status [[less does not equate zero lol]]. Highly personal and idiosyncratic in their self-expression, creating more for themselves than for an audience.

    Then they have the Average states for both Subtypes. I won't even touch The Instinctual Variants but titled they are: The Self-Perservation Instinct, The Social Instinct and The Sexual Instinct (and no, it's not like that or we'd all want it~~)

    I believe you will say 4w5: The Bohemian!! MUAHAHAHA!

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    So if I am understanding right, a healthy 4 can extend out to inherit some 1 characteristics?
    Craaap. I thought you wrote from 4 to 1. Okie, but same thing applies, we exhibit, not inherit. So on the path to Integration, healthy 4 goes ---> 1. They "engage with reality through meaningful action...committing themselves to principles and activities beyond the realm of their subjective reacions..........They willingly become self-disciplined, working consistently to contribute something worthwhile to their world. No longer aloof bystanders waiting to be recognized, they participate fully in life and develop a stronger sense of themselves through their work and connections with others.

    *breath*

    Silly silly DD for mucking that up.

  5. #105
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Hm... I was going to ask what type I was, but the two tests from eclecticenergies.com gave me clearer answers than I've gotten before. Previously it's varied between 9 and 5, and I could see how 9 fit best, but I sometime engage in 5-like behaviour when engaged in an intellectual pursuit. These tests however, gave me:
    *****************************
    Type 9 - 13.3
    Type 2 - 11.7
    Type 7 - 9.7
    Type 4 - 9.7
    Type 5 - 9
    Type 8 - 5
    Type 1 - 2.7

    Wing 9w8 - 15.8
    Wing 9w1 - 14.7
    Wing 4w5 - 14.2
    Wing 2w3 - 14
    Wing 5w4 - 13.8
    Wing 2w1 - 13
    Wing 7w8 - 12.2
    Wing 4w3 - 12
    Wing 8w9 - 11.7
    Wing 7w6 - 10.5
    Wing 8w7 - 9.8
    Wing 5w6 - 9.8
    Wing 1w9 - 9.4
    Wing 1w2 - 8.6
    ***********************************
    And:
    You are most likely a type 9 (the Peacemaker) with 8 wing

    Sexual variant


    Type 9 SX (this bar was 2x the length of the one under)
    Type 7 SP (and from there they)
    Type 2 SO (rapidly became a)
    Type 6 SO (lot smaller, until)
    Type 3 SO (they)
    Type 4 SO (
    Type 8 SO
    Type 5 SO
    Type 1 SX

    disappeared.
    ****************************

    So it seems that settles it. I'm E9. Have to look at the 9w8 descriptions now to see if they fit.

    Edit: Hm... the wing descriptions seem to contradict much of what the pure 9 description says. I seem to fit some from both 9w1 and 9w8, but much of it doesn't fit. Most in the pure 9 description fits, though. I guess I don't have to stick wings on myself if they don't fit. I'm E9 at least.
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  6. #106
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    How about this, Carebear? It's a description of 9w8 from Character Pro 5. (This assumes you are in a healthy mindset; if not I can give you the summaries for average or unhealthy).

    Carebear can see all sides of any argument. Intelligent, perceptive and peace-loving, he hates conflict and will try to solve the problem or get away from it - not likely to get emotionally involved in the conflict, staying objective. He makes the perfect diplomat for that reason, offering a truly unbiased point of view. This is primarily because he, more than any other type, can see the big picture. Little things that other characters argue about don't matter to him. He can offer compromises or put it in perspective to create the peace he loves. This subtype is more likely to take a leadership role, to bring two sides into an understanding. Carebear inspires others with a kind of calm confidence. However, if the situation is particularly difficult, he is likely to gloss over important issues to try to get back to a peaceful world. This retraction into the self, this centering, can have a positive effect, making him capable of level-headedness and control in the face of extreme chaos - the only member of a team that remains calm under fire.

    Carebear is the product of a healthy and happy childhood, growing up in a household with virtually no conflict. As a result, he connected and identified with both his care-giving figure and his protective figure, seeing himself as an active and accepted member of the family. He was able to synthesize each of the attitudes and personalities of the parental figures into one whole. As an adult, Carebear has always been calm and objective, able to meld into any situation. He is more physically involved with the world and has made a very diverse set of friends. However, there is still an unattached quality, which means he doesn't always hold onto friends.

    Carebear has a calming effect on any situation. Willing to step into a conflict just about anywhere to see what he can do. Likely to say things like, "You both want the same thing." "Let's all get along." Carebear will be friendly to absolutely anyone. If that person's a problem, he's likely get involved to find out what's causing this conflict, unlike the other subtype who's likely to back off and dismiss it. However, in his weaker moments, he may tune out when others bring up tough issues.

    Carebear can be reassuring and very accepting in a relationship. Other characters feel appreciated and loved as is and feel calm around his peacefulness, but may become irritated because he just seems to float through life. He fears separation from others due to conflicts. Carebear tends to be attracted to Type 3s (The Self-Promoter) for friends and generally avoids Type 8s (The Ally).

    (Sorry, I didn't know if you are a boy or girl so I just left it as male.)
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  7. #107
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks! Yes, that fits so well it's scary. I guess I've found my type then. (Do you have any resources on how SX manifests in 9w8 vs. SO and SP by the way?)

    And yes, I am a male and healthy. A few traits of 'average' (from the general 9 description) surface under stress, but most of the 'average' traits don't fit at all (though I see how I could get there if I hadn't had such wonderful parents).

    Though I still don't see clearly how 9w1 and 9w8 differ, I do fit the 8 subtype in the examples you gave. I guess the pages I stumbled upon described all health levels in one go, and focused so much on the difference between 9w1 and 9w8 they exaggerated the differences so much neither looked like 9s anymore.
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  8. #108
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    I always figured that Carebear was a 9, actually. I dunno, but it was a hunch I had. (Although I was thinking more along the lines of 9w1.)

    I'm usually a 5w4, but I also score high on 6 and moderate on 9, 1, and 8.

    However, I think that my 8-ness is because of the 5 line. In Riso's book, I identify mostly with either 5 or 4 at Level 6.

  9. #109
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    Wow, thanks! Yes, that fits so well it's scary. I guess I've found my type then. (Do you have any resources on how SX manifests in 9w8 vs. SO and SP by the way?)

    And yes, I am a male and healthy. A few traits of 'average' (from the general 9 description) surface under stress, but most of the 'average' traits don't fit at all (though I see how I could get there if I hadn't had such wonderful parents).

    Though I still don't see clearly how 9w1 and 9w8 differ, I do fit the 8 subtype in the examples you gave. I guess the pages I stumbled upon described all health levels in one go, and focused so much on the difference between 9w1 and 9w8 they exaggerated the differences so much neither looked like 9s anymore.
    It doesn't go over the SX, SO, and SP at all. =( I am also interested in how that works into the equation. Here is the 9w1 descriptions in case you wanted to compare:

    Carebear is a kind, peace-loving person who can see both sides of any argument. He is likely to respond to events, rather than initiate them. He is blessed with a calm confidence that can carry him through any conflict unscathed. Objective and unbiased. He is more cerebral than the other subtype, making him uniquely qualified to look at both sides of an argument to find common ground. Carebear is philosophical and creative. Wise and, at this level, highly principled. A great example for the community, but isn't looking for that. He simply wants a calm world and makes a great friend, listening without judgment, finding good in just about anyone. His flaw comes to the forefront when the world becomes a difficult, tense place. He tries to maintain peace of mind by retreating inside, possibly even fooling himself into believing that everything is okay when it's obviously not. This retraction into self can have a positive effect, however, making him uniquely capable of level-headedness under fire.

    Carebear is the product of a harmonious childhood with, possibly, some minor tension - not enough to have much effect but enough to make him rely a little on his own mind when necessary. Carebear was able to easily assimilate both parental identities in his mind, able to create a peaceful world inside as well as out. As an adult, he took an active stance against world problems, looking to solve conflict on a global basis. In a weird kind of way, Carebear has found his value in being able to keep others calm and has sought out as friends those who are conflict oriented, ready for a fight.

    Carebear avoids conflict. He would never start an argument and when one surfaces, he will try to put it to bed as quickly as possible, even if it means changing his original stand. He is likely to give into a way of thinking to end the conflict. At times he may tune out when others bring up tough issues. Carebear has learned to be funny, able to make anyone laugh, seeing this as a great way to get everyone on the same track. Being of the cerebral subtype, he is more likely to retreat into the mind when conflict arises, but is able to emerge to add great insight into a situation, presenting the wisdom of the big picture.

    Carebear can be reassuring and very accepting in a relationship. Other characters feel appreciated and loved as is and feel calm around his peacefulness, but may become irritated because he just seems to float through life. He fears separation from others due to conflicts. Carebear tends to be attracted to Type 3s (The Self-Promoter) for friends and generally avoids Type 8s (The Ally).
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  10. #110
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I always figured that Carebear was a 9, actually. I dunno, but it was a hunch I had. (Although I was thinking more along the lines of 9w1.)
    Intriguing! I never get hunches about people's enneagram types. I do on MBTI types though, so I guess it's lack of familiarity with enneagrams that leaves me blind in that area. What made you suspect I was a 9? (Hm... Ni I guess, meaning it's probably hopeless for you to really put your finger on exactly what gave you the idea?)
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

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