Type clarification?

[Virlomi]

Ah, hello... I'm quite new to the forum (and the MBTI concept in general, I suppose) and hope to get my type more definitely sorted out.

I initially tested as an IXTP, but did not find the ISTP description very accurate. Since then, I test usually as an INTP. I accepted this for a bit, but today I've been doing some more in-depth reading on the subjects, and the more I read, the less sure I am. I could be just second-guessing. So, I'm interested in opinions, if I may be allowed to say a bit about myself? I'm going to try to be as objective as I can, please bear with me.

To start, I'm female, a junior in high school, and pretty atheistic. I'm intelligent and usually prefer the company of those older than myself. I'm mildly serious about playing my clarinet, though I don't think that's what I want to do as a career, nor do I think I'm good enough for that. I'm good at languages, but get more enjoyment out of sciences, and to a lesser extent mathematics. I'm rather cynical, I've been told, and I can't dispute the accusations of sarcasm. Also compulsively polite and feel quite guilty whenever someone does something for me. I really enjoy time by myself, and am quite content not to go out and do things if no opportunities present themselves. I spend a lot of quality time with my Rubik's Cube, it's something nice to do with my hands.

I'm very quiet in new situations, and I don't usually initiate conversations with new people. Starting off introductions feels awkward to me, not something that comes naturally. I have a small circle of friends that mean the world to me. However, if I'm somewhere new with one of these friends, I'm much more confident, and hardly shy at all. My first year of high school I was timid... by now, I'm comfortable in the surrounding and can interact freely with others. I have a much larger circle of people I enjoy being around, and can be myself easily. It's to the point where I can feel easy around new additions to, say, the clarinet section with minimal effort.

I place a high personal value on things such as grades, ACTs, etc. At the same time, I can be immensely lazy regarding school work and usually procrastinate everything. I'm not very organized... Things will get to a point where the mess irritates me, but things never stay clean for long. I don't like having my life scheduled, but I stress a bit on school related projects if a group that I'm in seems content to just 'wing it.'

I usually get along best with those that share my interests somewhat, books, music, computers... I dislike sports. My friends typically have their own idiosyncrasies and bouts of unpredictability, like I do. If I feel like riding a carousel in public, I do so without much concern for others, and my friends are the type to join me. I'm usually pretty laid-back, and take things in stride, but also have days where I have seemingly boundless energy and good cheer.

I really don't think I'm the 'feeling' type. I don't get really emotionally involved in things much. I don't get angry much, I'm pretty hard to irritate, I rarely cry. (Except when I laugh, which I can't do without crying. ) I'm not the type to be attracted to someone easily, and I dislike having a 'crush' on someone... It makes me anxious around a person I previously could be comfortable around as a friend, and I resent that. I'm logic oriented and it's something I don't understand or have a choice in. I assume part of that is being fifteen. I'd rather not downplay my age- if you aren't going to be able to respect me despite it, than I guess that's that. And if you find me being immature or 'like a 15-year-old,' I'd rather know it than not.

Eh, I would hope that would be plenty/a start, it's more talking about myself than I've done in a long time. If you have any opinions or questions, please respond?

 

["?"]

I know you are dismissing feeling types, but it seems for the wrong reasons. Basic principle of type is that emotions does not come into play. Fe and Fi are as cognitive as Ti and Te. The only difference is Fi and Fe base their decisions on the human factor and Ti and Te on non-human factors. I would say that ISFP should be considered as well as INFJ, but don't dismiss ISTP if you are limiting your viewpoint to stereotyped info like being mechanically inclined.

 

[MerkW]

Hmmm...perhaps you should test your Jungian cognitive functions to determine your type. Here is a test where such can be done:

Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[Virlomi]

Thank you for the thoughts, link and welcome-

extraverted Sensing (Se) *************************** (27.3)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) ********************************* (33.2)
good use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************ (36.2)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************* (25.9)
average use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************************* (31.3)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ****************************************** (42.5)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************** (14.8)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) ***************************** (29)
average use

INTP again. Does it seem to fit after all? I think I've considered this too much, all I do is second-guess myself. I just scored ISTP again on a different test as well.

 

[MerkW]

Thank you for the thoughts, link and welcome-

extraverted Sensing (Se) *************************** (27.3)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) ********************************* (33.2)
good use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************ (36.2)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************* (25.9)
average use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************************* (31.3)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ****************************************** (42.5)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************** (14.8)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) ***************************** (29)
average use

INTP again. Does it seem to fit after all? I think I've considered this too much, all I do is second-guess myself. I just scored ISTP again on a different test as well.

Based off these results, you seem to be a rather clear INTP. Your self-description also sounded quite INTP, with the exception of your compulsion "to be polite." Then again, there are many other factors contributing to character traits, so that doesn't exclude you from being INTP.

 

[INTJMom]

I have a suggestion.
Sometimes when we take these tests, we can get too close and lose objectivity.
Is it possible for you to have a couple of girls who know you pretty well help you take the test?
What I mean is, you could ask their opinion of how you should answer each question.

The reason I suggest it is this: before I met my husband, I thought I was a very observant person, but after I got to know him and learned how much attention he paid to everything, I realized I am not a naturally observant person, like my husband is. I thought I was observant until I compared myself to someone who really is observant.
Your friends might be a little different from you and may be able see you differently than you see yourself.

If that's not possible, maybe you could just ask them a few questions over the phone.

I am a very strong "J" yet I used to procrastinate on my homework and have a messy room, too. But after a while, it would drive me nuts and I would have to clean it up. People who just want to "wing it" stress me out, too.

My husband has a couple of favorite sayings: "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it." and "Stay flexible and have fun." both of which drive me crazy - especially when I'm the one who has to do the being flexible and the waiting!! He's an ISTP.

I'm an INTJ on the outside and an INFJ on the inside.

Are you really critical of yourself? Are you a perfectionist? Do people tell you not to be so hard on yourself?

 

[INTJMom]

I tested as an INTP on that test, too, and I am a very strong J.

 

[INTJMom]

Here's a test that might prove to be helpful if you can remember how you were as a kid.
The Personality Questionnaire for Kids

 

[redacted]

you sounded quite INTP from the first post. and after reading your test results, it seems even more likely.

 

[Randomnity]

I test as INTP as well, and I thought I was one for a long time until hanging out with INTPs made me realize that I wasn't one. A lot of the tests and descriptions out there are really biased towards N, so if you perceive yourself as being halfway intelligent, the scores can be shifted towards N.

For the record, everything you wrote applies to me, except the hating sports (although I did hate them in high school). Supposedly the primary function (Ti for both types) develops during your teens while the secondary function (Ne for INTP, Se for ISTP) develops during your early 20s, so it isn't really surprising that you're having trouble telling which one fits you better. Looking back, I was a lot more INTP-ish in high school.

Try reading this description and see if it resonates with you - it's the most accurate one I've found. And it's no big deal if you still aren't sure, I'm sure hanging around here will give you a better idea over time.

ISTP - Introverted Thinking with Sensing

Anyway, welcome!

 

[Athenian200]

I don't think you're a Perceiving type, just based on your word choices, proper punctuation, and lack of spelling errors. You were very specific and easy to follow. And I wouldn't worry too much about your age, as long as you don't derail threads or make trouble... some of the people in their 20's here still haven't matured enough to post intelligently, as a matter of fact.

You seem IJ-ish, but I can't really discriminate T/F or S/N. I'm gravitating towards INTJ as being likely for you based on the available information... your disorganization may be more lack of S than lack of J (since I rarely clean/organize my folders... and though I usually get work done on time, sometimes I forget or become distracted and end up rushing at the last minute.) Also, some INTJ's have a tendency to be compulsively polite, although just as many are rude.

Oh, and you probably shouldn't trust that test. It pegs practically everyone who tends to be curious and meticulous in their studies of an abstract concept as INTP. The definitions of the functions don't necessarily fall within the lines they've drawn, and I tend to think the functional order test is intrinsically flawed in crucial ways.

 

["?"]

Hmmm...perhaps you should test your Jungian cognitive functions to determine your type. Here is a test where such can be done:

The test is really not capable of determining your true cognitive process. Depending on what day I take that assessment, any cognitive process can be in dominant mode. I have tested INJ, INTP, ENTP and ESTP based on how I was adapting to my environment during the period. There is no quick and easy way to determine type, especially for those preferring perceiving to judging. Finding out your temperament then your interaction style seems to be the most viable means. Otherwise, the test are only as viable as the person is truthful to themselves.

 

[Splittet]

You are INTP. I must say, athenian200, I think you are very wrong in your assessment. Your statements on perceiving types and word choice, spelling and so on is pretty superficial and provocative. I can guarantee you most INTPs, the type with the highest average IQ, are very good writers, with few mistakes, and an excellent ability to communicate something with clarity. To me Ti is the voice of clarity, in contrast with for example Ni, which I consider very personal, and hard to communicate. I do think Ni becomes a very powerful weapon in communication though, if the user masters to communicate it, but I think few do that well, me being an excellent example of not being able to communicate it well.

 

[INTJMom]

...
Oh, and you probably shouldn't trust that test. It pegs practically everyone who tends to be curious and meticulous in their studies of an abstract concept as INTP. The definitions of the functions don't necessarily fall within the lines they've drawn, and I tend to think the functional order test is intrinsically flawed in crucial ways.

I agree.

 

[Athenian200]

You are INTP. I must say, athenian200, I think you are very wrong in your assessment. Your statements on perceiving types and word choice, spelling and so on is pretty superficial and provocative. I can guarantee you most INTPs, the type with the highest average IQ, are very good writers, with few mistakes, and an excellent ability to communicate something with clarity.

Well, maybe we associate with different INTPs... most of the ones I know (much to my usually unexpressed chagrin) couldn't care less about spelling. Perhaps they communicate clearly to most people, but I have trouble understanding them because they often make generalizations, and I usually need to understand any exceptions and the reasons for them in order to make sense of what I'm dealing with. I'm not saying they aren't intelligent, quite the opposite... they have a different kind of intelligence, the P's right-brained sort, as opposed to a J's left-brained kind. I'm just saying that in my experience, they struggle to explain the details of an idea in a way I can understand without asking them to clarify on several points. Of course, they do eventually express their idea clearly if you ask the right questions, and it's usually very insightful. They're usually capable of expressing their ideas more clearly than FP's, but they still struggle in similar ways.

I don't see why my idea is provocative or superficial. Most believe that J's are left-brained, and P's are right-brained. And right-brained individuals are more spatial than verbal, meaning that on average, they'll tend to have more difficulty expressing themselves via language. Such people are usually better at "seeing the big picture," designing a new system, or inventing a novel solution, though, so it's more an explanation of a trade-off than a proclamation that one type is better than another.

To me Ti is the voice of clarity, in contrast with for example Ni, which I consider very personal, and hard to communicate. I do think Ni becomes a very powerful weapon in communication though, if the user masters to communicate it, but I think few do that well, me being an excellent example of not being able to communicate it well.

There are aspects of it that are hard to communicate, but I encounter them infrequently. In fact, communication/writing is one of my better skills... I'm not particularly good with art, mathematics, or any sort of physical activity, which are (typically) the domain of right-brained individuals.

When you say that Ni is very personal/incommunicable... are you sure you aren't referring to Fi? Also, I don't see how any Introverted function could be strongly related to clarity of expression (although it might be related to clarity of understanding/thought)... they are only expressed as their affect on the expression of the Extraverted function, and aren't expressed directly/outwardly.

 

[Splittet]

I don't see why my idea is provocative or superficial. Most believe that J's are left-brained, and P's are right-brained. And right-brained individuals are more spatial than verbal, meaning that on average, they'll tend to have more difficulty expressing themselves via language. Such people are usually better at "seeing the big picture," designing a new system, or inventing a novel solution, though, so it's more an explanation of a trade-off than a proclamation that one type is better than another.

Ability to spell correctly correlations heavily with intelligence, just as heavily as the language tasks you see in IQ tests. Actually it correlates more heavily with intelligence than word recognition. So when the INTP type has the highest average IQ, it means they should be one of the best types at spelling. And indeed it is my experience they are. (Source: Staveferdighet utvikles over tid I am sorry it is in Norwegian though.)

There are aspects of it that are hard to communicate, but I encounter them infrequently. In fact, communication/writing is one of my better skills... I'm not particularly good with art, mathematics, or any sort of physical activity, which are (typically) the domain of right-brained individuals.

When you say that Ni is very personal/incommunicable... are you sure you aren't referring to Fi? Also, I don't see how any Introverted function could be strongly related to clarity of expression (although it might be related to clarity of understanding/thought)... they are only expressed as their affect on the expression of the Extraverted function, and aren't expressed directly/outwardly.

What I was saying was that most INJs were not very skilled at communicating Ni. It might be INFJs are better than INTJs, because of their people-oriented Fe. Anyhow, the reason why you do not often encounter this problem might very well be that you are one of those INJs skilled at communicating Ni.

 

[cascadeco]

Most believe that J's are left-brained, and P's are right-brained. And right-brained individuals are more spatial than verbal, meaning that on average, they'll tend to have more difficulty expressing themselves via language. Such people are usually better at "seeing the big picture," designing a new system, or inventing a novel solution, though, so it's more an explanation of a trade-off than a proclamation that one type is better than another.

There are aspects of it that are hard to communicate, but I encounter them infrequently. In fact, communication/writing is one of my better skills... I'm not particularly good with art, mathematics, or any sort of physical activity, which are (typically) the domain of right-brained individuals.

The problem I have with right/left brain being associated with P/J is that it is common (at least on this board, and I reckon in real life too) for people to use both sides fairly equally. As for myself, with any 'brain test' I've taken online, I always come out with using the two sides equally, or there's a one point difference.

And in real life, I don't think it's uncommon for Intuitives to excel in both your logical/scientific pursuits as well as your music/artistic ones. Often I think the two can go hand in hand.

It's one thing that caused me a bit of an 'identity crisis' growing up. I excelled at school work (science, math...really, everything), and communication, particularly written, has always been one of my strengths - it is frequently cited as my key strength in job performance reviews.

On the other hand, I was equally gifted at music growing up, math has always come rather easily for me (aside from 3D calc, but that's beside the point ;-), and I was very much inclined towards the arts growing up - painting, drawing, creative stuff...in fact I had a lot more enjoyment pursuing the arts than theory. However, I sucked at team sports. hehe.

So I don't know that I'm a fan of pinpointing right/left to P/J, unless you're talking *extreme* P's or J's, and then possibly there's some validity to it. But otherwise....I don't know. It just seems like trying to join two theories together that perhaps shouldn't be joined. Seems like there'd be a LOT of people who it wouldn't really apply to. On the other hand, by joining the two, it would provide explanation for why so many people waver on the P/J thing, and never fully know which one they are, and never seem like one or the other........

 

["?"]

I don't think you're a Perceiving type, just based on your word choices, proper punctuation, and lack of spelling errors. You were very specific and easy to follow. And I wouldn't worry too much about your age, as long as you don't derail threads or make trouble... some of the people in their 20's here still haven't matured enough to post intelligently, as a matter of fact.

I do agree that the assessment as most, seems to result in INTP when a choice is in the air therefore would rule out INTP for that fact. When taking the Step II, it resulted in me being INTP. I must also agree with Splittet is correct that your assessment seems flawed since the definition of Ti is

Introverted Thinking - Analyzing, categorizing, and figuring out how something works. Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, there is a search for a "leverage point" that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system.

 

[Athenian200]

I must also agree with Splittet is correct that your assessment seems flawed since the definition of Ti is

I know that. I just meant that perhaps that those definitions (which are the same as those the test uses for its questions), may also be flawed, perhaps mixing parts of some functions into descriptions of others, creating a certain amount of confusion.

I agree that Ti's generally have a strong sense of what "is," and how and why it "is," but they're not always good at expressing it verbally. They don't seem quite as oriented to language as J's, and I've had more than one tell me they don't think verbally. But I know that I have a tendency to do so. Also, I'm not referring to vocabulary so much as to punctuation, spelling, and other grammatical rules, which often seem like artificial/pointless ideas to INTP's. I'll admit they have good enough vocabularies, though. My other issue is that they can be very broad in what they say, or even offer information that isn't obviously related to what I was talking about, and thus avoid addressing my point.

 

[ptgatsby]

To start, I'm female, a junior in high school, and pretty atheistic.

While this does not lead to a conclusion, it is entirely possible that you are an ISTP that is still undergoing development. Teens test vastly more N than S, especially early on. This doesn't mean anything one way or the other, but it may be difficult to determine because you haven't fully developped cognitively.