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  1. #41
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splittet View Post
    Practically I do not think the differences will be large. My guess would also be female INTPs would probably value their friends more, on average, than their male counterparts. And I mean, who doesn't value their friends? Extremely few. Also I feel you generalize too much, be open to exceptions.
    Okay, fine. I think most people value their friends, but I would assume someone with inferior F wouldn't be aware of valuing their friends, or would be ashamed to value them. I imagine that unlike tertiary or higher F's, they would be ashamed of any illogical preferences they had.

    But I don't agree that female INTP's value their friends more. They might express it more, or be more willing to admit it, but I don't think the actual level of "value" is higher. It think it just seems like they value their friends more, rather than that they actually do value them more.
    I do think you read too much into very little. Also note clarity is the essence of Ti, and doesn't clarity go well with especially topic contiguity? Writing style will vary between INTPs, as it will vary among all types, but do not be surprised if the INTP type is one of the P types most ordered in their writing, because they are always striving for clarity. Also, someone that seems to write very clearly, might give the false impression of writing in a structured manner.
    In my opinion, Ti is clarity of understanding, not clarity of expression.
    Sorry if I sound harsh. I appreciate your humble nature, it gives a good climate for discussion, which is something I suck at.
    Oh, I didn't mind at all. Thanks. I prefer to have someone tell me what they think of my ideas so I can get a better sense of what might be wrong with them.

  2. #42
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Okay, fine. I think most people value their friends, but I would assume someone with inferior F wouldn't be aware of valuing their friends, or would be ashamed to value them. I imagine that unlike tertiary or higher F's, they would be ashamed of any illogical preferences they had.

    But I don't agree that female INTP's value their friends more. They might express it more, or be more willing to admit it, but I don't think the actual level of "value" is higher. It think it just seems like they value their friends more, rather than that they actually do value them more.
    Okay, the possible difference between the sexes might very well be bullshit, but anyhow, the thought of INTPs feeling ashamed for valuing their friends!? Somehow I doubt many INTPs can confirm that's really how they feel. I think most by far will confirm they appreciate their friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    In my opinion, Ti is clarity of understanding, not clarity of expression.
    There is obviously a lot of variety within the type, but on average, I do think most INTPs express themselves very clearly, much more clearly than the average INTJ, for example. A real life example of this might be the INTP Albert Einstein and INTJ Niels Bohr. Einstein was known for his ability to express his ideas clearly, while Niels Bohr was an infamously bad speaker. Why would I be very surprised if it was the other way around?

  3. #43
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Liebniz (INTP) vs. Newton (INTJ) is another good example of the difficulty INTJs face in articulating the mysterious world of Ni. Interestingly enough, I suffer from similar problems (even to a greater extent than some INTJs I know, actually), perhaps because by Ni is as strong as my Ne and Ti.

    But I am a rather abnormal person.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

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  4. #44
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    2. Politeness. INTP's would have a hard time (to say the least) just acting polite all the time. They may be aware enough to not say anything, or just give a minimal, neutral response, but acting "compulsively polite" would not be something they would/could do under normal circumstances. There are times some of them would want to, but it's just not something they can do without a lot of stress.
    I agree with this, and its why I asked that question. Virlomi's response to me points to the Fe view of politeness, but a single factor is not something to make the decision on, its just something worth considering before ruling out xxFx of some kind. The other two points you made, I could argue either for or against depending on my mood at the moment.

  5. #45
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splittet View Post
    Politeness might be due to her relatively strong Si, or simply due to her gender and cultural influences, or just a combination of all these factors. Not that interesting, really.
    I disagree Splittet, it is Fe
    Extraverted Feeling - Considering others and responding to them. The extraverted Feeling process is used in relation to particular people and situations and so has a more here-and-now quality than a universal, future, or past quality. When particular people are out of our presence or awareness, we can then adjust to new people or situations. This process helps us "grease the wheels" of social interaction. Often, the process of extraverted Feeling seems to involve a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The "social graces" such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Associated behaviors might include remembering birthdays, finding just the right card for a person and selecting a gift based on what a person likes. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them.
    , not Si that calls for politeness. Contrary to erroneous belief on these forums Fi nor Fe is about emotion, but is cognitive. As for Virlomi's true type, I think it would be quite presumptuous of me or anyone to type someone from a forum discussion. Only Virlomi can make that call since I have no idea who the person is.

  6. #46
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I disagree Splittet, it is Fe, not Si that calls for politeness. Contrary to erroneous belief on these forums Fi nor Fe is about emotion, but is cognitive. As for Virlomi's true type, I think it would be quite presumptuous of me or anyone to type someone from a forum discussion. Only Virlomi can make that call since I have no idea who the person is.
    Oh, but I do not disagree. Fe is the main function of politeness, but I think politeness also can come from Si. The reason why I mention it possibly coming from Si in her case was that her Si tested as strong, while her Fe tested as weak. Politeness is something you can see in all the SJ types, and even more in all the FJ types.

  7. #47
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Ummm... I would say either Fe or Fi. I am not sure how you are correlating it with Si from what I understand about the function.

  8. #48
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Ummm... I would say either Fe or Fi. I am not sure how you are correlating it with Si from what I understand about the function.
    It is because Si is very much about tradition, and politeness is very much part of a traditional world view.

  9. #49
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Ummm... I would say either Fe or Fi. I am not sure how you are correlating it with Si from what I understand about the function.
    Si itself isn't politeness per se, however, coupled with Fe, politeness (or perhaps more appropriately etiquette) is in fact the result. Fi is definitely not the root of politeness. Compare xxFPs with xxFJs. It is usually quite obvious that xxFJs are far more polite than xxFPs. As mentioned before, xSTJs can sometimes be a little bit unfeeling, and xNFJs can occasionally be willing to challenge social norms. Thus, xSFJs are the most "polite" types of all.

    I could go off on a long tangent about this, but in short, the reason behind this is the fact that while Fe is responsible for outwardly expressed emotion, and Si is responsible for valuing and following pre-established rules and procedures. Since politeness and etiquette are both, in essence, pre-established conventions or rules based off kindness and empathy. Its a somewhat rough correlation, but I myself do indeed believe that Si (and Fe to a lesser degree) is responsible for etiquette and politeness. This is why, for example, INTPs and ENTPs (as well as ISTPs) are often perceived as being unintentionally rude.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

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  10. #50
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Ummm... I would say either Fe or Fi. I am not sure how you are correlating it with Si from what I understand about the function.
    He means, if Si has branded politeness to itself, then it will manifest even in a STJs. I don't think Fe's natural disposition is toward politeness, but letting the other party know they're appreciated, or loved in an obvious manner. Si will be inclined to things like 'please and thank you' where Fe might rather choose something like sharing their cookies with someone else because they're sick, or giving a classroom of 1st graders popcorn for good behavior. Not necessarily Si things.

    Just last night I was at one of my mother's ESFJ friends' house. Everyone was playing poker -- actually we weren't really playing, the retard kid (he's actually a retard, I'm not saying that because I hate kids... I don't) was making an absurd amount of noise and I had a headache, so I went all in 'cause I knew I was going to lose it so I could get away from the noise. It worked, except the ESFJ I was talking about said she'd split chips with me. That's Fe, not Si. She wanted me there, because apparently, my presence is appreciated. However if the custom was to give chips to those who lost, or in an analogue, to donate to the charity -- usually without question or real understanding... just because you're SUPPOSED to do it... it's the 'right thing to do' -- then it's Si.
    we fukin won boys

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