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Thread: INTP & INFP

  1. #21
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    Well, the only thing we truly have power over is our own development and improvement. External change rarely lasts. Only by each individual changing one by one can the world truly improve. It's not a comforting thought. But so long as people refuse to think for themselves and refuse to be responsible for themselves (responsible for their own critical thinking) they will be targets for those who use propaganda and media to sway and influence them, just as they did with the priestcrafts in the past. The mass of humanity will follow the pipers who just want to control and exploit them and so long as people are doing so out of their own abdication of self how can they truly be helped at all? These are all very hard questions.

    So many people just happy to allow life to pass by as a delight to their senses (no connection here between N and S intended, N's do just as often as S) and ego needs and they are just as happy to let others do their thinking and judging for them. These people cannot be helped in their current state. They are truly the dead and the dead have to bury the dead.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Members Only's Avatar
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    Agreed.

    The world often searches for external solutions to internal problems.

    As Ghandi said "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

    This is usually the point where I try to apportion blame to one sect or another: is it the so called masses fault for being willfully ignorant? Is it the elite's fault for prescribing the masses a dose of ignorance through use of the media, the education system etc... Who knows, I'm sure I'll be having this back and forth argument in my head for many years to come.

    I would love to see the education system altered though: externally altering the education system would solve many of the populations internal problems. Problems I can't help but feel, the majority of the worlds leadership find useful for their populations to inherit through the states systems.
    It's just a ride

  3. #23
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Members Only View Post
    Also, on the above quote.

    It is not just harmonization of the self I seek to achieve, but harmonization of everything, with everything, in a broad sense. I want everybody to be harmonized. And in a sense, this may just be because, if everything, and everyone was harmonized with everything else, it would be a nicer world for ME to live in, in effect still being an aim of the self. But even with examining the meaning behind such actions, It still means I will not always harmonize myself to the will of other people; if I perceive somebody to be disruptive of harmony in the grander scheme of things, I will not give in to their will, more than likely I will oppose it.

    I want harmony, but I want it large scale.
    Interesting.
    How would Fe differ in that? I guess, it would be harmony in the immediate area at the expense of the grander scale?
    And then, you have the NFJ's preferred Fe (which will be used similarly because of the common NF goals), and then, the NTP's weaker, nonpreferred use. This will also figure int he difference between the two types.
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  4. #24
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    I've had plenty of INFP friends; we tend to gravitate, and have a lot in common. An INFP girl friend (not girlfriend) and I had the same favorite song in 1998 (Liz Phair's Nashville), and once we both started singing Lou Reed's Perfect Day in the kitchen at exactly the same time.

    Notable differences: They don't have as great interest in intellectual thought, being more concerned with what's right and just; They seem to ask "I wonder why" more than "I wonder if"; It's harder to tell if an INFP hates you through their fuzzy exterior.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Members Only View Post
    This is usually the point where I try to apportion blame to one sect or another: is it the so called masses fault for being willfully ignorant? Is it the elite's fault for prescribing the masses a dose of ignorance through use of the media, the education system etc... Who knows, I'm sure I'll be having this back and forth argument in my head for many years to come.

    In my opinion, it is not ignorance that the media offers us, but outright propaganda designed to appeal to known aspects of our psychology and to change our behavior processes. I cannot recommend the series "Century of Self" enough, it shows how Freud's theories were and are still being used in this manner.

    It is the general population's collective fault. When people give up their responsibility to criticial thinkers and want a big daddy to come in and make everything right, they open the door to manipulation and exploitation. Sometimes I even get this strange N idea that it's why were even here in this material world, trying to sort out the difference between individual freedom and love with others and along the way people get sidetracked into just play and distraction and lose both.

    There are countless ways that the human imagination could go in and yet we allow those in control of our media and educational systems to dicatate what direction our imaginations will go in. We just want to be entertained and left alone.

  6. #26
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    But it's going to be a hell of an internal war between wanting harmony with other people and wanting to be true to self and not wanting any constraints. Continual angst over this issue. The only relief found in introverting and getting away from the pressures that other people provide.
    An INFP without a sufficiently strong Thinking faculty will unconsciously have their values conform to the whims of others. In order to maintain harmony with oneself the INFP will convince himself that this was done purely out of his own will and had nothing to do with the wishes of others.

    There will be no angst because self-deception can stretch as far as the INFP's whims shall command, and we are unlikely to see many limitations to this because the salient drive of such a person is the will for harmony.

    Having established the values as described above the INFP will simply feel true to himself whilst being almost entirely ruled by the whims of the people around them on a profoundly unconscious level.

    Consistent inner conflict you speak of tends not to be observed in INFPs until they are able to use Thinking adequately to a notable degree. When Thinking truly becomes a force in the psychic economy of this type.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Interesting.
    How would Fe differ in that? I guess, it would be harmony in the immediate area at the expense of the grander scale?
    And then, you have the NFJ's preferred Fe (which will be used similarly because of the common NF goals), and then, the NTP's weaker, nonpreferred use. This will also figure int he difference between the two types.
    Immediate environment or distant. Internal harmony or that with others, are all conceptual questions. In other words, they require Thinking. This is not the skill of Fi or Fe. All they know is entertaining warm feelings. This manifests in their longing for harmony with others as instinctually they recognize that this is the greatest source of warm feelings. The only difference between Fi and Fe is that the psychological mechanism of the former predisposes them to believe that their conformity to the will and harmonization with the will of other people is internally inspired, whilst the latter is realist enough to see that their act is one of direct acquiescence.
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  7. #27
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    INTP and INFP the same? Exterior wise I'd say yes but it's often noticable that INTPs are a lot more concerned with definition than INFPs. An INFP is more likely to say something like "cause it does" than an INTP.

    Based on my two INFP mates it would appear that I like to question a whole lot more than they do. Sure they'll complain about things but when it comes to analysing stuff and finding a point where I usually go "why can't they just..." then I'm far more likely to do that than to complain about the end result.

    Another difference is in communication. I'll engage your thinking where as they tend to engage people's emotions more. It's most noticable in our persuasion methods. Often they will engage in that kind of persuasion where things like "well if you're not bothered about it then fine" are said where as with me I'm more inquisitive and will engage your reasoning in some conversation (some say argument... but they're just plain wrong ).

    I guess that the central difference is pretty much summed up by the differences between Ti and Fi. One INFP friend tells me he has almost a logic machine in his head where he can feed in the input and see what this machine says should be the logical outcome... me I've got a feeling machine where I calculate out what impact my actions may have, for example, by testing various hypothesis in this virtual environment I create.

    Mind you though I've found few developed INFPs who I don't get on with... the immature ones are only slightly less annoying than the immature INTPs.. I guess that means they are, in effect, quite similar.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #28
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    I have been having some trouble determining from the typical tests which of the two types I am. As far as I can tell, I definately some of the distinct qualtities of both, but it mostly depends on the situation and what type of response is needed. Sometimes I will feel my way through something, other times I'll think it out more logically. A further interesting note might be that I'm noticing a trend, moving more toward Feeling things out than Thinking about them. Most of my years growing up I have been extremely analytical and suppressive of emotions. Over the past year or two however, coinciding with a few particular life-changing events, I've been moving away from that constant logic and asking myself, how do I really FEEL about this and what's missing in my usual interpretation, not just what the computer up there reads. It's been a source of confusion and conflict within myself, almost as if my emotions are calling out for attention after being pushed down for so long... If pressed to choose one or the other, I would say I'm more INTP, but I can't ignore that I seem to have a side that screams INFP.

    I'm not very learned on the MBTI and such things yet, though I do pick up on it pretty quick.

  9. #29
    Junior Member Jaded's Avatar
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    Yeah i hate this view/beleif that us INFPs cant handle anything, most of the times i find i get as defensive and angry as anyone else lol... i might not be overly aggressive but im not all fuzzy cuddly and have rainbows and unicorns prancing around my head!...it's jst anoyin when people think i am coz i tend to be passive...but when something gets on my nerves i would snap..
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