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  1. #51
    Member Amalie's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if I got what you said.

    Sorry if I got too, what d'ya call it, "emotional", up there..
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  2. #52
    Member Amalie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I know many INTJs and INFJs. Indeed, many INTJs are cold and cynical, but so are many of the INFJs. Similarly, many INFJs are warm and friendly, but so are many INTJs.

    MBTI and Jungian functions are not about personality traits, though to some degree many people of the same type have certain personality traits in common. Rather, they're about cognitive processes: how one comes to understand things, not how one behaves. There are INFJs out there whose intellectual prowess is beyond question, but whose decisions, in the end, are primarily based on subjective matters. There are INTJs out there who are real softies, who get mistyped as INFJ or even INFP (the latter if the Fi part of the INTJ is clear and J/P is unclear), but in the end are biased towards evaluating matters objectively, no matter how warm and fuzzy they are on the surface.

    It's one of the reasons I find MBTI useful: it's a communication tool such that I can adapt my message and explain things in terms another will more quickly appreciate. It is a good predictor of whether someone will readily appreciate and understand a particular explanation of a particular idea, but it is not a good predictor of how someone will behave.
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  3. #53
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I know many INTJs and INFJs. Indeed, many INTJs are cold and cynical, but so are many of the INFJs. Similarly, many INFJs are warm and friendly, but so are many INTJs.

    MBTI and Jungian functions are not about personality traits, though to some degree many people of the same type have certain personality traits in common. Rather, they're about cognitive processes: how one comes to understand things, not how one behaves. There are INFJs out there whose intellectual prowess is beyond question, but whose decisions, in the end, are primarily based on subjective matters. There are INTJs out there who are real softies, who get mistyped as INFJ or even INFP (the latter if the Fi part of the INTJ is clear and J/P is unclear), but in the end are biased towards evaluating matters objectively, no matter how warm and fuzzy they are on the surface.

    It's one of the reasons I find MBTI useful: it's a communication tool such that I can adapt my message and explain things in terms another will more quickly appreciate. It is a good predictor of whether someone will readily appreciate and understand a particular explanation of a particular idea, but it is not a good predictor of how someone will behave.
    There's a reason why there's a hierarchy of functions. With all the "F vibe", we receive from Amalie(e.g."Hope" and "smiles"), I would suspect it would either have to be a very developed Fi or simply an Aux Fe.(or a fake persona) It's definitely not impossible for an INTJ to have great Fi but then we look at Te? Is it possible for Fi to overtake Te? no. The significance of the hierarchy is that it tells us that there is a limit to our own "adaptability". An INFJ will never be an INTJ. By functions, Te is the more stimulating function and Fi can only be so well developed. Cognitive Functions defines our limitations. The INTP will never be the constant party animal character.

  4. #54
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    There's a reason why there's a hierarchy of functions. With all the "F vibe", we receive from Amalie(e.g."Hope" and "smiles"), I would suspect it would either have to be a very developed Fi or simply an Aux Fe.(or a fake persona) It's definitely not impossible for an INTJ to have great Fi but then we look at Te? Is it possible for Fi to overtake Te? no. The significance of the hierarchy is that it tells us that there is a limit to our own "adaptability". An INFJ will never be an INTJ. By functions, Te is the more stimulating function and Fi can only be so well developed. Cognitive Functions defines our limitations. The INTP will never be the constant party animal character.
    One should be careful about basing MBTI typing on "F-vibe" from females (especially very young females) and "T-vibe" from males. The outward behavior is often determined by societal expectations.

    Furthermore, the primary source of our knowledge of Amelie's type is from Amalie's self-analysis. We can help her with that analysis, but contradicting her analysis - especially basing said contradiction on one's use of smilies - is less then helpful.



    Sometimes one type is clear, in which case one has all the stereotypical behaviors of the type, but sometimes one's type is not clear, as in Amelie's case. She isn't dismissing the possibility of INFJ, but an emoticon-based argument won't persuade her.

  5. #55
    Member Amalie's Avatar
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    Thank you. I feel this is far more constructive than the previous posts. Getting to something.

    I have read a bit, and I have to say, I'm quite sure I use the Te/Fi. My Fi might be so developed it's why I often feel these contradictions in my head. Sometimes it's like having two opinions in my mind at the same time. In the end though, I almost never make decisions based on feelings if it doesn't make logical sense at the same time. I always try and combine both to make a good decision, but as I've said, I count more on thought than feeling because thought is objective. I trust objective more than subjective.
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  6. #56
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amalie View Post
    Thank you. I feel this is far more constructive than the previous posts. Getting to something.
    The posts you respond to and feel are 'constructive' are the ones that speak more towards INTJ; the posts that challenge or question are the ones you have neglected to respond to.

    But, yeah, typing someone as 'F' based solely on isolated things, like use of smileys, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You need a lot more than just smilies to be F.

    I have read a bit, and I have to say, I'm quite sure I use the Te/Fi. My Fi might be so developed it's why I often feel these contradictions in my head. Sometimes it's like having two opinions in my mind at the same time. In the end though, I almost never make decisions based on feelings if it doesn't make logical sense at the same time. I always try and combine both to make a good decision, but as I've said, I count more on thought than feeling because thought is objective. I trust objective more than subjective.
    It's perfectly fine if INTJ speaks more to you than INFJ, and if TeFi resonates much stronger; I'm not saying you're not INTJ, and ultimately it is your call. However, again, nothing you are writing opposes INFJ. I relate strongly to the bolded piece, for example, and I always step back and analyze my feelings. I also find many aspects of life situational.
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  7. #57
    Senior Member Tikka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amalie View Post
    I trust objective more than subjective.
    I trust objective more than subjective as well.

    But that doesn't mean in the end I won't do what my feeling tells me to do.

    Also, you can type yourself as an INxJ in the meantime. MBTI is not black and white, it's a spectrum. When someone finds herself in the middle of two extremes, then that's her place at that moment.

  8. #58
    Member Amalie's Avatar
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    @ Cascadeco - Yep. You might be right. Sorry. It's how I know everything from before that makes me this way. :P :P :P

    @ Tikka - Yep. I'll say so. I'm INxJ.
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  9. #59
    Member Amalie's Avatar
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    I took a Global5/SLOAN test. I got RLOEI. Then I read all the descriptions on the ten different traits. I'm definitely reserved, limbic, organized and inquisitive. Then comes accommodating and egocentric.

    I thought I'd copy and paste the descriptions of the two and mark out what fits me.

    Accommodating:
    happiest when giving to others, not self absorbed, wants to carry on traditions of family, not materialistic, modest, serves others, not domineering, overly loyal, not competitive, does not need instant gratification, not controlling, compassionate, sympathetic, sensitive to the needs of others, not manipulative, gets along with others, does not make enemies, not vain, dislikes conflict, constructive, prone to spirituality, can be a doormat, good at taking advice, can be submissive

    Egocentric: (Am I too honest on this one? Feels a bit strange to point out "narcissist" )
    egocentric, self absorbed, not loyal, not generous, only concerned about those close to them, prone to bitterness, can ignore the rights of others, narcissist, meglomaniac, competitive, controlling, needs to have the upper hand in relationships, vain, materialistic, values indivuality over loyalty, not afraid of conflict, would pursue a career that was harmful to others, believes the benefits of freedom outweigh the benefits of attachment, does not value organized religion, does not like to admit making mistakes, quick tempered, not traditional, tactless, blunt, suspicious, makes enemies, wants to be famous, prefers technical careers (law, engineering, medicine), prefers instant gratification, attracted to prestige, manipulative, influenced more by self than others, decisive


    Psst. Hope I can use this thread a bit to myself to search for types etc.
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  10. #60
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    My subjective Ti coming from several repeating circumstances or consistent data is really telling me you are INFJ. My Ti is based on a stereotype but really it's only rare that its wrong. Perhaps it's because all the INTJ's or IxTJ's I know will absolutely never put "Hope" nor focus on "little smilies". Either way, there is a reason why stereotypes exist. Conclusion from the general trend of data may not be absolute but it's difficult for it to be wrong.

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