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  1. #1
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Default Sudden Ni/Ne bewilderment...

    I have always been a tough MBTI type case, sitting on the INFP/INFJ cusp for most of my MBTI awareness. ENFP is also often offered in the mix, but always dismissed because of what feels my clear introversion.

    However, tonight I'm suddenly wondering about something related to Ne and Ni. I took the coginitive functions test which put me with Ne as my top function--which is actually typical (usually it's Ne or Fi).

    I settled on my INFJ type based on the regular closeness of my MBTI INFP/INFJ scores (I type close to the border with INFJ often coming up as my type and Ni and Fe always near the top in cognitive function tests), but primarily on an exploration of the functions where I identified Ni as my hero or dominant function.

    Part of that Ni dominant identification was recognition of the large role my ability to see things from a number of different perspective vantage points has played throughout my life. It has repeatedly allowed me to re-envision my life situations and find new ways to engage when things become difficult. It has garnered me admiration and gratefulness from friends who express appreciation for my ability to give them new insights into their own situations.

    I really thought this trait was Ni. I've heared INFJ's here describe what I thought was that sort of perspective shifting and it reinforced to me the idea that this ability to see things from many different angles was Ni.

    I have however always lacked the certain definiteness and forcefulness pushing me into social action that is often described as INFJ. I have in the past attributed this difference from typical INFJ description to my closeness on the INFP/J scale and a strong use of Ne offsetting the more obvious manifestations of Ni.

    I am most often stalled from definitive and forceful action because I can see many valid options and barrelling in on one as if it's the only valid possibility seems imprudent and inauthentic to me when I value any of the other options as just as useful generally. The specific validity of an option to me depends only on the circumstances of the particular situation. When I make a decision and move forward with a sense of conviction it is usually because I have taken all those valid options and turned inward evaluating which one seems to match my own situational needs most closely. It becomes the most valid option for me at that particular time. It is with this recognition that I then have the drive to move forward without letting external detractions derail me.

    When offering perspectives to other people I tend to offer them without pushing for implementation. I see my outside perspective as less valuable for evaluating the specific usefulness of any perspective for someone else than that person's own internal assessment. I see my useful role as to offer things for consideration and then I remove myself to the role of observer and supporter in the process because I see them as knowing better than I could what tool will best suit their needs. At that point, my main goal is to encourage them to trust their own sense of what is the right for them and to celebrate their decisions with them.

    Is this Ne and Fi?

    I'm suddenly confused.

    I do seem to process differently in many ways from INFP's I've encountered and I've felt more resonance with the described experience of INFJ's. I feel comfortable when things have closure and seem to lack a comfort with ambiguity that many INFP's seem to possess.

    Here are the Ne and Ni descriptions from the cognitive functions site:

    Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means. It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership.
    Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us. A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden “Aha!” or “That’s it!” The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform. We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal. It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions.
    I'm suddenly wondering if the Ne description actually fits most closely with the perspective shifting I experience and I'm feeling a new sense of confusion with the Ni description.

    Can I get some INFP and INFJ (or ENFP or any other type) feedback on how you see my process matching or not matching yours and also your sense of resonance with either the Ne and Ni descriptions quoted here?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by tovlo; 12-08-2007 at 04:09 AM. Reason: system ate 1/2 my post???
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  2. #2
    To the top of the world arcticangel02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    I am most often stalled from definitive and forceful action because I can see many valid options and barrelling in on one as if it's the only valid possibility seems imprudent and inauthentic to me when I value any of the other options as just as useful generally. The specific validity of an option to me depends only on the circumstances of the particular situation. When I make a decision and move forward with a sense of conviction it is usually because I have taken all those valid options and turned inward evaluating which one seems to match my own situational needs most closely. It becomes the most valid option for me at that particular time. It is with this recognition that I then have the drive to move forward without letting external detractions derail me.

    When offering perspectives to other people I tend to offer them without pushing for implementation. I see my outside perspective as less valuable for evaluating the specific usefulness of any perspective for someone else than that person's own internal assessment. I see my useful role as to offer things for consideration and then I remove myself to the role of observer and supporter in the process because I see them as knowing better than I could what tool will best suit their needs. At that point, my main goal is to encourage them to trust their own sense of what is the right for them and to celebrate their decisions with them.

    Is this Ne and Fi?
    This sounds very much like what I do, so from that I would say that it would be very likely Ne and Fi in play.
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  3. #3
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I think that the Ni descriptions are inadequate, and actually include a lot of the Ne descriptions.

    But I will say that I find INFP's give off a certain "vibe" that either repels and disgusts me completely, or makes me think they're wonderful people (sometimes the same person at different times).

    With other INFJ's... it seems to be more "normal/open," and so I think for that reason that you're probably an INFJ... you don't have that overly intense, discomfiting vibe, but seem to have more a gentle curiosity/concern.

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    In terms of how they enact values, sometimes it's very difficult for me to articulate the difference between INFP and INFJ. I can sense it -- INFPs tend to feel warmly engaged with me but in someways I feel like they are judgmental underneath and perhaps not telling me everything, INFJs tend to feel cooler and might have a lot of practical opinion on the surface but are less judgmental underneath. INFP also tends to play out as easier-going,

    The description of Ne has to be considered in a secondary position, not in a primary position as the description seems to be. Outwardly I do use Ne a lot and "hint" at things and possibilities. When I talk to people I am usually springboarding around and looking for all the connection and seeing if someone responds in kind. But it is not the primary. Underneath, it's not as if all things are "possibly true" -- because the judging function is in charge. I usually am shifting around on a mission, because I have an idea of what is true and I am checking the possibilities to see if in fact that idea pans out as "possible." The inner theory is driving the search; and for an INFP, then, wouldn't the inner value system be driving their search? So they are looking for and interpreting possibilities always in context of their inner value system. Either things match up or they don't, and either the value is tweaked or the possibilities are discarded.

    The INFJ on the surface looks more rigid, with particular ways to do things (the effects of Fe) -- there is a particular way to treat people, behave in a situation, certain needs that must realistically always be dealt with -- but underneath they seem more flexible. As long as the outer rules aren't broken, or if the outer rules can be stretched to accommodate the inner possibilities, then something is okay even if it doesn't match the INFJ's personal preferences. They can see things from another point of view.

    The INFP tends to express things more loosely on the surface and sound less sure than they are, until you cross a line and suddenly the judgment springs out. They are Ne'ing and dancing around rather carefree otherwise.

    The INFJ doesn't show as much N in the outer world. Inside is where all the intuition plays out, where they change their way of seeing a situation. Outwardly, where the Ne person is playing, the INFJ is more controlled and focused and anchored; it is inside where the shift and dancing around is occurring, so that one can reorient the way he or she views something.
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  5. #5
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The INFJ on the surface looks more rigid, with particular ways to do things (the effects of Fe) -- there is a particular way to treat people, behave in a situation, certain needs that must realistically always be dealt with -- but underneath they seem more flexible. As long as the outer rules aren't broken, or if the outer rules can be stretched to accommodate the inner possibilities, then something is okay even if it doesn't match the INFJ's personal preferences. They can see things from another point of view.

    The INFJ doesn't show as much N in the outer world. Inside is where all the intuition plays out, where they change their way of seeing a situation. Outwardly, where the Ne person is playing, the INFJ is more controlled and focused and anchored; it is inside where the shift and dancing around is occurring, so that one can reorient the way he or she views something.
    I can personally relate to these comments, especially the bolded section. Jennifer, for not being an INFJ, you describe it well! (at least my experience)

    And tovlo (hi!) - I can relate to this -

    I am most often stalled from definitive and forceful action because I can see many valid options and barrelling in on one as if it's the only valid possibility seems imprudent and inauthentic to me when I value any of the other options as just as useful generally. The specific validity of an option to me depends only on the circumstances of the particular situation. When I make a decision and move forward with a sense of conviction it is usually because I have taken all those valid options and turned inward evaluating which one seems to match my own situational needs most closely. It becomes the most valid option for me at that particular time. It is with this recognition that I then have the drive to move forward without letting external detractions derail me.
    It can be a very lengthy process for me to mull over and analyze all of the various options, but once I've gone through that lengthy internal process, and come to a definitive 'conclusion' or 'route' to take, I can then move forward with certainty.
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  6. #6
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Tovlo: I feel for you... I think both of us are on the same boat. I'm also borderline when it comes to J/P. I'm fairly certain I am Ni dominant, however I seem to also like using Ne... more than Fe which is surprising, however Fi is low. People I interact with say I give the outward appearance of a J, however I personally feel I am very reluctant in making decisions and prefer openness.

    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    However, tonight I'm suddenly wondering about something related to Ne and Ni. I took the coginitive functions test which put me with Ne as my top function--which is actually typical (usually it's Ne or Fi).

    ...

    Part of that Ni dominant identification was recognition of the large role my ability to see things from a number of different perspective vantage points has played throughout my life. It has repeatedly allowed me to re-envision my life situations and find new ways to engage when things become difficult. It has garnered me admiration and gratefulness from friends who express appreciation for my ability to give them new insights into their own situations.
    *nods* That's what I believe Ni is. However Ni and Ne to me seems so closely related... I've never been able to tell them apart with certainty. One thing I struggled with myself is determining to what extent is my intuition Ne. Some signs are obvious. For example, I am rather visually orientated. Often times I noticed patterns in the things I see and I immediately think of how that can be applied in something else usually in art and design.

    Quote Originally Posted by from my "journal'
    Ne, Ni... does it matter? I was looking at the Nostale UK redesign flash site. The scrolling image... trying to figure out how the scripting works... when I realized it doesn't just scroll. It actually consists of 5 different layers scrolling at different speeds. And that gives the illusion of depth and perspective. The next image in my mind was to rotate that 90 degrees and scroll up right... image of bouncing waves and land at a distance. Reflecting back on that line of thought, I realize I was using Ne Ti. Actually I've given it quite a bit of thought... Under "normal" circumstances, I am Ni Fe dominant. But when I am dealing with graphics, web design, fine art related areas... I become Ne dominant, with a touch of Ti as support. Here's another example... Sitting on a bench at a bus stop late at night, I started noticing the multiple shadows casted by street lights. Each at a slightly different angle and different intensity... therefore you get an overlay of multiple shapes that are very similar to one another, forming a pattern on the ground. It made me think about utilizing that idea in a design. The process is very Ne related... however I seldom think about these patterns other than in art.
    At what point did Ni took over from Ne? Or was the whole process Ne? I cannot determine at all. Both are too deeply ingrained in me.

    I am most often stalled from definitive and forceful action because I can see many valid options and barrelling in on one as if it's the only valid possibility seems imprudent and inauthentic to me when I value any of the other options as just as useful generally. ... It becomes the most valid option for me at that particular time. It is with this recognition that I then have the drive to move forward without letting external detractions derail me.
    Sometimes I wonder whether a very insecure INFJ might act like an INFP... (inability to chose despite wanting closure) or if it's just what happens when you fall on the J/P cusp. Then there's another part of my mind that asks does it truly matter whether you are an INFJ or an INFP. The label should only be there to help you understand yourself. It shouldn't dictate who you are. MBTI is afterall only a theory.

    This came to my mind: Wanting the accurate label is J, wanting to fully understand self (whether you're a J or a P doesn't matter) is P. Which do you identify with more?

    When offering perspectives to other people I tend to offer them without pushing for implementation. I see my outside perspective as less valuable for evaluating the specific usefulness of any perspective for someone else than that person's own internal assessment. I see my useful role as to offer things for consideration and then I remove myself to the role of observer and supporter in the process because I see them as knowing better than I could what tool will best suit their needs. At that point, my main goal is to encourage them to trust their own sense of what is the right for them and to celebrate their decisions with them.

    Is this Ne and Fi?
    I don't know if that's Ne Fi or just Ni working by itself. What do I mean by that? Well the nature of Ni provides multiple perspective. INFJs tend to pursuit an ideal world where everybody can self-actualize. However for that to happen, you must let the other person decide for themselves what is it that they wanted.

    I identify with the following:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ne
    Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means.
    It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. - Curious, perhaps I didn't quite understand the difference between Ni and Ne afterall... I've always thought the ability to accept seemingly contradictory ideas together as Ni. For when I do that, I tend to distance myself from the object and just observe. How one thing can be true from one perspective and another in an alternate one.
    This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. - You don't know what the answer is until you thought it out. Again, I cannot tell if this is restricted to Ne. I frequently ask "What if"? I've seen other INXJs ask the same... so is it more related to the N in general?
    Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. - Here is where I differ from the description. Brainstorming to me are possibilities. I appreciate them for generating new ideas, but I do not fully trust them. As in there can be flaws in brainstorming... and I have to sift through the ideas before using the outcomes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ni
    Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level.
    Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us. A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden “Aha!” or “That’s it!” - This I can fully embrace as a part of me. It's a synthesis of all ideas together as a whole by drawing on pre-existing ideas and patterns.
    The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. I get notions of what might happen, but I'm hampered by the thought of "what if this analysis is incorrect? what if I've missed something important?"
    In short, the only major difference between the two I found was in the method of engagement. Ni involves drawing the idea into yourself and throwing what you know at it to see what sticks. Ne is the same process but instead of playing with it inside your mind, you toss the ball at other people and watch how the interact with it in order to see new patterns. I find myself doing both, but Ni dominants over Ne simply because I'm introverted... and thus am less inclined to deliberately go out to find people to bounce ideas off of when I can just use my mind.

    Perhaps this thread might help you: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...al-visual.html

  7. #7
    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
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    Hey Miss t -

    Here's my take...

    Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means. It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership.
    All I can say is, this description, especially the bolded parts, feels very familiar to how I operate.

    Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us. A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden “Aha!” or “That’s it!” The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform. We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal. It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions.
    Nothing in this description feels familiar to me. The only time I get insights like the ones described here are when I'm sleeping.
    Last edited by anii; 12-08-2007 at 07:56 PM. Reason: glitchy cutting off of most of my post???

  8. #8
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticangel02 View Post
    This sounds very much like what I do, so from that I would say that it would be very likely Ne and Fi in play.
    yeah, I do think it certainly could be.

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200
    But I will say that I find INFP's give off a certain "vibe" that either repels and disgusts me completely, or makes me think they're wonderful people (sometimes the same person at different times).

    With other INFJ's... it seems to be more "normal/open," and so I think for that reason that you're probably an INFJ... you don't have that overly intense, discomfiting vibe, but seem to have more a gentle curiosity/concern
    I have some sense of the vibe you're refering to. I think I have felt something similar.

    I do know my sense is that in some fundamental way I'm different from INFP's. I feel different from INFJ's too, but it's odd because it feels like more superficial differences. When INFP's start to describe their inner process or it is revealed in their approach to a topic, I find myself often getting confused and feeling lost. When INFJ's start to describe their inner process, I usually feel grounded and safe and have an excited feeling of "yes! yes! I see what you see!"

    I feel positive self-growth in exploring unfamiliar INFP perspectives, though I do also often feel a tension of instability and insecurity in the presence of these perspectives. I generally feel comforted and at ease in the familiarity of INFJ perspectives.

    I think that might say a lot about my natural type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    The INFJ doesn't show as much N in the outer world. Inside is where all the intuition plays out, where they change their way of seeing a situation. Outwardly, where the Ne person is playing, the INFJ is more controlled and focused and anchored; it is inside where the shift and dancing around is occurring, so that one can reorient the way he or she views something.
    Hmmm...so in reading that, I'm considering that the shifting and dancing of perspective is happening with both Ne and Ni, but Ni happens internally where it's not visible. The descriptions quoted maybe are intentionally or unintentionally describing mostly the external manifestations of the intuitive process. The Ne description would resonate with me because I would recognize my internal process in it, but the Ni might actually have less resonance because it describes how my internal process results might look externally while I am more familiar with the internal workings than this interior function's limited external manifestation.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn
    ...once I've gone through that lengthy internal process, and come to a definitive 'conclusion' or 'route' to take, I can then move forward with certainty.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning
    This came to my mind: Wanting the accurate label is J, wanting to fully understand self (whether you're a J or a P doesn't matter) is P. Which do you identify with more?
    Wanting to fully understand self. No question.

    However, that doesn't mean the label is unimportant to me. It's not. The label is a superficial description of what exists underneath and so feeling some confidence in the accuracy of the label is an indicator to me of a more solid sense of self-understanding. To simply say the label is unimportant indicates to me on some level that I've given up the attempt at greater self-understanding. Trying to dig as deeply into understanding of what each label attempts to describe and how closely each potential label matches or doesn't match what I know of myself helps me make sense of where my self-awareness might need to grow and also possibly where the labels simply aren't accurately descriptive.

    Quote Originally Posted by anii
    The only time I get insights like the ones described here are when I'm sleeping.
    It's not quite that limited for me, but I can't deny that my sense of resonance with the Ni description quoted here is truly less than that with the Ne description.

    Lots to ponder. Today I'm feeling less perplexed by the Ne/Ni thing and my type. Just back to thinking I'm INFJ with tinges of INFP expression, wondering about how or why that manifests in me, and about how the mechanism of type as thus far understood by me still seems inadequate description.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  9. #9
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    well, here's a perfect time to mention this website.

    INFJ or INFP? a closer look

    (the author of this site is MBTI qualified)

    To be honest I'm already leaning towards _NFP (there's a blank there, because many, many ENFPS start off assuming they are introverts)

  10. #10
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    Part of that Ni dominant identification was recognition of the large role my ability to see things from a number of different perspective vantage points has played throughout my life. It has repeatedly allowed me to re-envision my life situations and find new ways to engage when things become difficult. It has garnered me admiration and gratefulness from friends who express appreciation for my ability to give them new insights into their own situations.

    I really thought this trait was Ni. I've heared INFJ's here describe what I thought was that sort of perspective shifting and it reinforced to me the idea that this ability to see things from many different angles was Ni.
    I'm fairly comfortable considering myself INFP now (still not enough to change it in profile tho ).

    On the cognative function test, I scored high on Fi, Ni (slightly higher on Fi, but not much), a bit lower on Ne, and a lot lower on Fi (still above normal I think, but lower than all the others).

    A while back Bluewing made a post on how Fi and Ne interact for an INFP, and for me that was one fo the key points that solidified my decision since I related to so much of it. (link to post)

    One of the key points is that an INFP can look like they are using Ni because Fi is bending Ne inward to serve it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluewing
    We should also note that the Extroverted Intuition of the INFP is often aimed inwards due to the primacy of an Introverted Function-Introverted Feeling. Fi-Introverted Feeling, bends the Extroverted Intuition inwards and therefore creates the effect germane to Introverted Intuition. This leads the INFP, unlike most perceiving types to merely collect information that is fitting with the goals set by Introverted Feeling, instead of collecting all information as their extroverted cousin ENFP would be more likely to. This also leads the INFP to be able to derive profound meaning from complex ideas much like the INFJs do with their Introverted Intuition. This phenomenon is best depicted in Dostoevsky’s Intuitive psychological insights in outstandings novels like Brothers Karamazov , The Idiot, and Notes from Underground. In those writings, it was clear that Dostoevsky discovered those notions not from careful analysis, or even examinations of Feelings, but rather purely intuitively. As he made connections that he did swiftly and projected them onto a variety of other entities, and his ability to do this with hardly any hesitation seems to suggest that this was not a conscious process for him. The INFPs also have this gift, they in fact may be better than the INFJ in deriving profound meaning in complex ideas. INFJ, as a dominant Introverted Intuiting type, is likely the most Intuitive type. However, one does not need as much Intuitive power in order to derive profound insights. INFJs often have more intuitions than they can consciously process. INFPs, on the other hand, are often able to consciously process-or apply feeling-oriented judgments to nearly all of their Intuitions. Their raw intuitions in themselves may not link them to direct insights as they would with the INFJs, but this certainly happens after they have applied Introverted Judgment to the contemplated idea.
    I have however always lacked the certain definiteness and forcefulness pushing me into social action that is often described as INFJ. I have in the past attributed this difference from typical INFJ description to my closeness on the INFP/J scale and a strong use of Ne offsetting the more obvious manifestations of Ni.

    I am most often stalled from definitive and forceful action because I can see many valid options and barrelling in on one as if it's the only valid possibility seems imprudent and inauthentic to me when I value any of the other options as just as useful generally. The specific validity of an option to me depends only on the circumstances of the particular situation. When I make a decision and move forward with a sense of conviction it is usually because I have taken all those valid options and turned inward evaluating which one seems to match my own situational needs most closely. It becomes the most valid option for me at that particular time. It is with this recognition that I then have the drive to move forward without letting external detractions derail me.
    This does not sound quite like what I do (parts of it, but not all of it). What I do is more along the lines of rapidly starting mental scenarios and playing through them and "flagging" them as I go, then exploring the more appealing ideas in greater depth trying to find one that "feels right" and also might have a chance to reach the solution I want.

    When offering perspectives to other people I tend to offer them without pushing for implementation. I see my outside perspective as less valuable for evaluating the specific usefulness of any perspective for someone else than that person's own internal assessment. I see my useful role as to offer things for consideration and then I remove myself to the role of observer and supporter in the process because I see them as knowing better than I could what tool will best suit their needs. At that point, my main goal is to encourage them to trust their own sense of what is the right for them and to celebrate their decisions with them.

    Is this Ne and Fi?

    I'm suddenly confused.
    I'm not sure what exactly it would represent (I'll leave that interpretation to those more knowledgeable in specific functions). What I can say is that sounds fairly close to me. One of my beliefs is "the anwers we need are usually already in each of us, but sometimes we need someone else to help us see where to look and/or to help show us what we are overlooking".

    I do seem to process differently in many ways from INFP's I've encountered and I've felt more resonance with the described experience of INFJ's. I feel comfortable when things have closure and seem to lack a comfort with ambiguity that many INFP's seem to possess.

    Here are the Ne and Ni descriptions from the cognitive functions site:
    FWIW, you are one of those INFJs whos posts I usually relate to reasonably well but ocasionaly find things that seem very different (Cascademn, Athenian200 and Nightning and a couple others that have not posted in this thread also fall in that catagory, but the majority of INFJs here seem different enough from me to make me think INFP is my best match).

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200
    think that the Ni descriptions are inadequate, and actually include a lot of the Ne descriptions.

    But I will say that I find INFP's give off a certain "vibe" that either repels and disgusts me completely, or makes me think they're wonderful people (sometimes the same person at different times).

    With other INFJ's... it seems to be more "normal/open," and so I think for that reason that you're probably an INFJ... you don't have that overly intense, discomfiting vibe, but seem to have more a gentle curiosity/concern.
    Which of those categories would you put me in?

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