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View Poll Results: Do ENTJs have a tendencies to micromanage the work of others?

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  • Yes. I see this happening often enough to consider it common ENTJ behavior.

    17 43.59%
  • No. It happens rarely enough that I would not consider it characteristic of ENTJs.

    22 56.41%
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    First, I disagree with your statements about INTJs not as effective in leadership postions that requires initiative, adaptability, a nose for trends, and possibilities. I think in change situations, INTJs often find themselves in leadership positions. They know what do to when other people are confused, due to the clarity of their intuitive perceptions in the face of ambiguity, and how they are able to effectively exercise NiTe together. EDIT: I've mostly made my career on these situations, so perhaps it doesn't apply to this type of INTJ anyway.

    When it comes down to ENTJs, I realize I'm generalizing and many may not hit the pattern, but I think what really bothers me the most is them turning their critique against people - that is judging people as unqualified, bad, not right fit, etc. and the speed with which they take action. They seem to seek to move bodies into positions where they can fit the right cog in the grand scheme. If there is a cog they don't like, or thinks differently than them, they toss it way. Perhaps it is my reaction, but I don't react well to loud, controlling, leaders particularly well. I have also seen decisions arrived at on the disposition of people - "this one's no good, then fire them" when in fact is it is the ENTJ's inability to appreciate people who are different from himself. This one guy tears through people - fatal flaw because other than that, he's quite capapable. It is a bit of a hatchet man's approach to managing people in my experience, not caring about the people they impact in the least. Though this person can be very inspiring to a crowd, the problems are with those that work directly for him. He seems to lack some ability to listen, is intolerant of mistakes, has quite a large ego, doesn't stick up for his people at key times, and these things get him in trouble because he has no loyal team that lasts to follow him. He is not nearly as successful as he could be.I'm not saying all ENTJs all do this, but have seen it enough times to notice a pattern of similar behaviours in several others - jumping to conclusions, taking actions, without sufficient information or evidence to base it on. It always seems to be an ENTJ exhibiting these behaviors. I'm not sure why.

    ENTJ Spaz Example as relayed by someone else last week. ENTJ screws up his need to approve his own paperwork. Screams at poor administrative assistant that they're not doing their job (they should do it for him) and then hangs up on him. Complains to the poor guys supervisor that he isn't doing his job and it impacts his assistant's performance review. Administrative assistant is in tears over unfair feedback. Yet, actually, the ENTJ was the only one who could approve his paperwork in the first place. He realizes this later of course after the fact but does not ever admit that he is wrong or go back to the person's supervisor to apologize. True story.

    I totally agree with you that INTJs make great leaders when no one else wants to or has the expertise. I find them fair and capable, but usually reluctant leaders.

    I ALWAYS try to give people a fair shake, and I admit when I am wrong . . . but perhaps that is because I was raised by an amazing man who taught me that a leader is only as good as his staff. He used to give me practical advise like, if your employees are complaining about their jobs, call a meeting have them vote on the worst job and then do it for them. They will be so thankful that there will be no complaining after that. He was always telling me to appreciate the talents of the little guy. I don't know what he was, but I know he was more of a feeler, acting the "hatchet" man sent him to the hospital for a triple bypass . . . . Maybe an ENFJ?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    Holy shit, what did your mother do to you to warrant you having such a twisted obsession with ENTJs??
    Simulated World inherently despises INFPs and ENTJs. Then he tries to lie about it, citing his equal disgust for all types. It's quite funny actually.

  3. #83
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post
    I'm sorry, but yes it is. I don't think anyone has even claimed that N's are incapable of paying attention to detail. At least not in this thread.And your entire argument rests on ripping apart the fact that someone, somewhere said that the ENTIRE reason ENTJs don't tend to be micromanagers because they don't have an S in their name.

    Straw. Man.



    Anyone is capable of stressing over details OR the big picture, given the correct situation. Is that really even worth discussing?

    Your poll is split almost evenly last I checked, and you can take my initial "yes" vote out of the equation because I changed my mind while I was writing my first response.

    The anecdotal evidence combined with that fact that ENTJs are not theoretically wired to be the ultimate micromanagers in most general situations together imply that, yes, ENTJs can be micromanagers, but it simply can't be accepted as a broad generalization at this point. Theory is nothing if it doesn't hold up in experimentation.
    Think of it this way: It's relative. ESTJs may be the most likely type to micromanage, but if we order all types from most to least likely to micromanage, ENTJ is going to be right near the top.

    The only points you all have successfully made are:

    A) That ESTJs are more likely to be micromanagers...which doesn't prevent ENTJs from also doing it frequently, and
    B) That ENTJs prefer macromanagement to micromanagement...which in no way indicates that ENTJs don't also micromanage frequently. There's no reason for these two closely related behaviors to be mutually exclusive.

    If I had to make a guess as to which types micromanage most often, it would probably look something like:

    1) ESTJ
    2) ESFJ
    3) ENTJ
    4) ENFJ
    5) ISTJ

    and so on and so forth. So no, ENTJ is not the #1 most likely type to micromanage, but will micromanage much more often than most other types.

    Whether a type can be described as frequently showing a certain behavior depends on how often that type does it relative to other types, so if ENTJs micromanage more often than most types, then it can be fairly said that ENTJs have a habit of micromanaging.

    If, on the other hand, we went to the bottom of the list, we would surely find ISFP. I'm sure that somewhere out there in the world there are ISFPs who micromanage, but since they do it so much less often than other types, it's far less reasonable to claim that micromanagement is a typical ISFP behavior.

    My position does not claim that micromanaging is typical of ENTJs simply because it's possible for them to do it--I claim that ENTJs micromanage because they do it much more often than most other types. In order for any typological behavioral observation to be meaningful it needs to be compared to the relative frequency with which other types perform the same behavior.

    Since all types breathe equally often, breathing cannot be ascribed to any particular type. However, since ENTJs micromanage more often than most other types, they can reasonably be said to have micromanaging tendencies.

    Hell, ENTJs may even prefer macromanaging to micromanaging, but that doesn't mean they don't also micromanage! Why are micromanagement and macromanagement mutually exclusive? Did you guys consider that ENTJs might frequently do BOTH?

    For another example, ENTPs don't nitpick logical consistency as often as INTPs. But just because I can find another type that's worse about it doesn't mean ENTPs don't also do it frequently. They certainly do, just with less frequency than INTPs.

    Get it yet?

    btw, not a straw man because people in thread actually did make precisely the argument I was shooting down about the letter N exempting them from getting stuck on small details.

    You may not have made that argument, but my post wasn't addressed to you--it was addressed to the people who made the argument I was refuting.

    A straw man argument is one that refutes an argument the opposition didn't actually make--but if you read the thread, more than one person actually DID make the argument that being an N type means they don't focus on small details. (JustHer claimed outright that micromanaging without Si is impossible!)

    So when I responded to them, I was not making a straw man argument.


    Can anyone offer an argument here other than "ENTJs don't micromanage because ESTJs do it more often" or "ENTJs don't micromanage because they like macromanaging better"? That seems to be all I'm hearing.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #84
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    You have to choose a field of work that is specialized and complicated and you're the only one who can do it. If then someone comes into your office and tries to get you to be more efficient, you just shout: "How about you do the work yourself?"

    Then they bail out, pissed and you can continue procrastination on typelogyforums.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #85
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    I don't see myself meddling in other peoples business, but sadly I do get perceived that way a LOT!
    Uh huh...and why do you suppose that is? Is it because everyone else is just grossly misjudging ENTJs, or because you misjudge yourselves when you insist that you don't micromanage, despite the numerous complaints from others that you do?


    Quote Originally Posted by theplacesyoullgo View Post
    Only if what the other person is doing really impacts my own life. Then yes, I micromanage, because people can't be trusted to make the right decision or follow up a lot of the time.
    Indeed. Te doms often think most people around them are incompetent, so they figure that as the only competent person around, it's their duty to take over and control whatever parts of the project aren't working out.


    P.S., here's a hint for everyone claiming "ENTJs don't micromanage often because they macromanage!"

    I'm an ENTP. I prefer Ne to Ti.

    And yet I somehow also use Ti frequently. How can this be? Because Ne and Ti aren't mutually exclusive. I can prefer one and still do the other quite often, just as ENTJs can prefer macromanagement but still micromanage quite frequently.

    I don't understand what's so hard about this concept.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #86
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Uh huh...and why do you suppose that is? Is it because everyone else is just grossly misjudging ENTJs, or because you misjudge yourselves when you insist that you don't micromanage, despite the numerous complaints from others that you do?
    Because people are stuck in their own pov without being able to see the other person's motivation, imo and rather get upset than actually wonder where the communcation shortcircuited.Ime, an NTJ tends to step in when they feel the process isn't running smoothly, whatever that process would be. I often find myself very thankful to them for that, unless they have forgotten to judge the importance of said process.


    I know NTJs that don't sweat the details and are in essence lazy about things not being effective as long as it doesnt matter. I also know one that stresses about everything and will constantly feel they ahve to step in, without looking at the big picture, without looking at whether it really is worth the effort. She does it, coz it irritates her to not have somethign under control, no matter how tiny and simply coz this is what she's good at. But most importantly, it is because she too is incapable of understanding someone elses pov. She cannot udnerstand how others cannot be so focused on efficiency and how that is not their priority or talent. She's going to give herself a heart attack one of these days though.

    The second kind can be grating, but the first kind is definitely a relief to have around.
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  7. #87
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Ime, an NTJ tends to step in when they feel the process isn't running smoothly, whatever that process would be. I often find myself very thankful to them for that, unless they have forgotten to judge the importance of said process.

    She does it, coz it irritates her to not have somethign under control, no matter how tiny and simply coz this is what she's good at.
    = dominant Te.

    Thanks for your input. Te > Ni in the ENTJ schema.

    And yeah, you have a good point about everyone misunderstanding each other's motivations and all that (just so you don't think I missed the real point of your post.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #88
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    When it comes down to ENTJs, I realize I'm generalizing and many may not hit the pattern, but I think what really bothers me the most is them turning their critique against people - that is judging people as unqualified, bad, not right fit, etc. and the speed with which they take action. They seem to seek to move bodies into positions where they can fit the right cog in the grand scheme. If there is a cog they don't like, or thinks differently than them, they toss it way. Perhaps it is my reaction, but I don't react well to loud, controlling, leaders particularly well. I have also seen decisions arrived at on the disposition of people - "this one's no good, then fire them" when in fact is it is the ENTJ's inability to appreciate people who are different from himself. This one guy tears through people - fatal flaw because other than that, he's quite capapable. It is a bit of a hatchet man's approach to managing people in my experience, not caring about the people they impact in the least. Though this person can be very inspiring to a crowd, the problems are with those that work directly for him. He seems to lack some ability to listen, is intolerant of mistakes, has quite a large ego, doesn't stick up for his people at key times, and these things get him in trouble because he has no loyal team that lasts to follow him. He is not nearly as successful as he could be.I'm not saying all ENTJs all do this, but have seen it enough times to notice a pattern of similar behaviours in several others - jumping to conclusions, taking actions, without sufficient information or evidence to base it on. It always seems to be an ENTJ exhibiting these behaviors. I'm not sure why.
    This sounds correct from my observations. And yes INTJs can actually be much better than ENTJ in leadership as they dont tend to alienate people quite as badly. Although everyone is afraid of them.

    My ENTJ loved his people, but at the end of the day they mostly hated him yet feared him as well yet respected him-which seems to be okay with men? WTF? ( I loved him!)

    I noticed just the other day an interesting thing Te doms do. If they respect your competency they will have discussions with you. If they do not respect you or are unfamiliar with you they do the following if you chaalenge thier notion of what's correct:

    1. Make a very loud, visible display
    2. Rather than question the ideas, the issue, they question the competency of the person or the qualifications of the person. "You are not qualified to think about that or offer ideas" or "you are incompetent", not "your idea is flawed".

    Te doms and auxs can both take time to "reprocess" but the IXTJs do so internally and will attack your idea. The EXTJs will do so externally and attack you if they do have some level of respect for you already.

    The INTJs need about 2-3 days to reprocess as it seems impossible for them to ignore data, no matter how much they would like to.

    The EXTJs will not take that time. Instead they launch an offensive rebuttle immediately and crush the other person, thus never fully considering the value of the data.

  9. #89
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    Who is this "everyone" misjudging ENTJs, SW?

    You are only one person, despite all the voices in your head.

    Your poll clearly demonstrates that not only is there no actual obvious trend in people finding ENTJs to be micromanagers, but that a slight majority actually disagrees with you.

    Why is it so difficult for you to just stop desperately hanging on to your argument despite all evidence against it?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    Who is this "everyone" misjudging ENTJs, SW?

    You are only one person, despite all the voices in your head.

    Your poll clearly demonstrates that not only is there no actual obvious trend in people finding ENTJs to be micromanagers, but that a slight majority actually disagrees with you.

    Why is it so difficult for you to just stop desperately hanging on to your argument despite all evidence against it?
    I have to agree with that.

    My style of managing was probably too loose.
    But then I made damn good decisions about who I hired.
    I have better things to do than baby sit people.

    As far as his desperation when evidence to the contrary is presented, he does that all the time.
    You should have seen him embarrassing himself calling someone INFJ.

    It got so bad, someone could say something like: "I have a red pen."
    Sim: "Oh! Oh! See! See! That's really Ni!"

    Ni has nothing to do with a red pen, but Sim doesn't care.
    He just makes shit up about people and has the audacity to call it "typing."

    "I have a Jeep."

    "See! See! That's Ni! You REALLY are INFJ!"

    It's like watching someone on an acid trip talk about jungian functions.

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