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View Poll Results: Do ENTJs have a tendencies to micromanage the work of others?

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  • Yes. I see this happening often enough to consider it common ENTJ behavior.

    17 43.59%
  • No. It happens rarely enough that I would not consider it characteristic of ENTJs.

    22 56.41%
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  1. #101
    Senior Member velocity's Avatar
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    keep up the threads like this and get risked being accused of being a "sensor" again, sim.

  2. #102
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Why are ENTJ's so boring?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #103
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post

    I don't know where you work, but something tells me a real ENTJ wouldn't be caught dead there.
    Just a hunch.
    It's laughable.
    Burger King.

    Swear on my life!

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Why are ENTJ's so boring?
    Because you touch yourself at night.

  5. #105
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    As long as it serves your purpose, you allow others to "self-identify."
    If it doesn't serve your purpose, you beat them over the head insisting their type is wrong.
    In socionics, an ENTp (ILE) is still Ne-Ti.
    I really have no idea what her type is, and I don't really care either. An ENTP is far less likely to be accused of micromanaging than an ENTJ, so I'd consider her more likely to be ENTJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Anyone who has nothing better to do in life than monitor bathroom usage, should be kicked to the curb for wasting valuable oxygen.
    Having said that, let's get back to business.

    The #1 temperament which correlates with making, enforcing, and/or overseeing policy is SJ.
    That means even an idiotic policy involving bathroom usage.

    Now, ask yourself what percentage of the population is allegedly ENTJ.
    I don't know where you work, but something tells me a real ENTJ wouldn't be caught dead there.
    Just a hunch.
    =you have a pretentious and erroneous belief that ENTJs are all too smart to preoccupy themselves with such trivialities.

    And now ENTJs are all too smart to work lower level jobs. Riiiight. I actually don't deliver pizzas anymore, but there was retired ENTJ in his 60s at one of the places I worked, and he was pretty obnoxious and widely disliked. He wasn't a manager but constantly felt it was his place to bark orders at people.

    If it makes you more comfortable you can pretend that he must have been an S, since "a real ENTJ" would clearly never be stupid enough to work such a lowly job. How arrogantly delusional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Did it ever occur to you they are not ENTJ? Or is that just more than you can possibly imagine?
    Did it ever occur to you that "ENTJ" doesn't denote "Superman"? Sorry if you're pissed that you have to share a type label with people you think are "beneath you", but ENTJs have their share of stupid people, just like every type.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    How do you know they are not SJ?


    Did it ever occur to you it could be an ESFJ, ensconced in minutiae?
    I don't see how bathroom policy= power and control.
    It's laughable.
    You have a bloated and grossly mistaken view of ENTJs if you think all of them are brilliant visionaries with grand and lofty goals and six-figure incomes. What's laughable is your own exaggerated sense of self-importance--you assume that everyone who shares your MBTI label must be someone successful or important! Anyone who isn't is not allowed in the exclusive ENTJ club, of course!

    The dumb ENTJs want power, control and influence just like the smart ones, except they're too dumb to get it, so they overcompensate through stupid bullshit like bathroom control policies or screaming at coworkers at their pizza store dayjobs. Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of them, as much as you'd love to believe that everyone in your type must be a rich CEO with a 6 million dollar house and driving a fucking Bentley.

    God forbid anybody you don't like or agree with be granted the privilege of the prestigious "ENTJ" label! If they're doing something stupid or trivial, it must be because they're one of those dumb S types. Nobody with negative characteristics could ever hope to share your type category, you earth-shattering genius, you!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #106
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Well, if my experience with ENTJs has been limited enough that I've gotten the wrong idea about them, isn't looking to the outside world the natural next step? Like, "I've noticed this trend in my experiences; does anyone else see it?" Since most people apparently don't see it, I can conclude that the data set I'm working with (ENTJs I've met) probably contains an unusually high number of micromanagers that doesn't reflect the overall ENTJ population. The whole point of the poll was to collect more information.

    And apparently a significant number of people do see it the way I do, but less than a majority. I think if my claim were totally unfounded, the poll results would have been highly skewed toward "No", so from this I can infer that some ENTJs do habitually micromanage, but probably not most.

    Looking back on it, I probably would have had a better point if I'd used a more applicable wording. If I'd said, "Do ENTJs have a tendency to be overbearing and controlling?", I'd probably have gotten a lot more "yes" answers. I guess "micromanaging" is just the wrong word for the point I was trying to make.
    Sure, you should use the outside world to find a baseline for your perspective, but my point is...don't you ever consider to wonder why your perspective is the way it is? It's not an objective given. I mean...you said that the one thing you take away from this thread is that you've met an unusual amount of micromanaging ENTJS. Granted, you also admitted to being overly sensitive to controlling due to being an ENTP. And that's actually what I'm talking about. Isn't it possible that those you've met are only micromanaging in your perspective? Because it is something you're so sensitive to. And for that matter...shouldn't you look at your own perspective and see if it needs tweaking...if there's possibly a way you can alter it, if only temporarily, to see where these micromanaging people are coming from. Often, at least, I find, that takes the frustration with the person's actions away. It allows for an 'ahhh that's the reason they do that and it has those benefits and these drawbacks'. It puts things in perspective..quite literally.

    I have the same 'allergy' to entps, as you well know, but with other types I find it way easier to first look at myself and my own perspective and compare it to what others view, to then synthesize the most balanced view. Still working on that with entps
    It's just harder if you have a kneejerk reaction to certain behavioral traits..but still worth it, I think
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  7. #107
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Sure, you should use the outside world to find a baseline for your perspective, but my point is...don't you ever consider to wonder why your perspective is the way it is? It's not an objective given. I mean...you said that the one thing you take away from this thread is that you've met an unusual amount of micromanaging ENTJS. Granted, you also admitted to being overly sensitive to controlling due to being an ENTP. And that's actually what I'm talking about. Isn't it possible that those you've met are only micromanaging in your perspective? Because it is something you're so sensitive to. And for that matter...shouldn't you look at your own perspective and see if it needs tweaking...if there's possibly a way you can alter it, if only temporarily, to see where these micromanaging people are coming from. Often, at least, I find, that takes the frustration with the person's actions away. It allows for an 'ahhh that's the reason they do that and it has those benefits and these drawbacks'. It puts things in perspective..quite literally.

    I have the same 'allergy' to entps, as you well know, but with other types I find it way easier to first look at myself and my own perspective and compare it to what others view, to then synthesize the most balanced view. Still working on that with entps
    It's just harder if you have a kneejerk reaction to certain behavioral traits..but still worth it, I think
    Yep, that's why I made the poll--to see if others perceive this type the same way. Apparently some do, but a small majority don't.

    I'd be more likely to conclude that my perception of ENTJs as micromanagers were wrong if no one or almost no one agreed with me about it, but seeing as a significant portion of poll respondents agreed, it seems more likely that I've just met a weird sample of ENTJs.

    The whole idea here was to collect information on others' views in order to estimate the effects of my own biases. If I were erroneously perceiving the ENTJs I know as micromanagers, it seems probable that very few people would agree with me about it.

    But I've heard the same criticism of ENTJs from a number of different people into typology, both on the forum and in real life...so I don't think I just imagined it about them.

    I know they have a reason for doing it, and I know that sometimes it has advantages. That doesn't make it any less annoying during the times that it's done unnecessarily.

    Wanna know what else bugs me about ENTJs? The outrageously misplaced arrogance. Look at this idiot six posts above you--I point out examples of ENTJs doing stupid/trivial/annoying things and his answer is: "OH WELL THEY MUST BE SENSORS THEN LOL"

    When he talks about where I work (or rather, used to work) he's referring to pizza stores. And his implication is clear: "Any ETJ dumb enough to work in a pizza store must be a stupid Sensor, because all real ENTJs are way too brilliant and successful for that."

    It's the age old scapegoat: Blame it on those dumb Sensors. Anything to avoid accepting that ENTJs might somehow be fallible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Why are ENTJ's so boring?
    Because they're predictable.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #108
    *hmmms* theadoor's Avatar
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    Because they're predictable.
    So are you...
    Oh yeah?

  9. #109
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ENTJs are all too smart to preoccupy themselves with such trivialities.
    I'm glad you finally realize that, now.
    I actually don't deliver pizzas anymore
    What now, Chinese food?
    God forbid anybody you don't like or agree with be granted the privilege of the prestigious "ENTJ" label! If they're doing something stupid or trivial, it must be because they're one of those dumb S types.
    This is getting boring so let's get this over with. Everything you mentioned about the micromanaging boss is ESTJ, not ENTJ.

    ESTJ and Career Change

    ESTJ

    Skilled at setting up and running effective procedures.

    Monitor to ensure tasks are done correctly
    Decisive and prefer to be in control
    May prefer to work with the status quo rather than change
    May steamroller others in getting things done
    Can be impatient with others who do not follow procedures
    Can be brusque in ignoring others ideas and viewpoints
    Irritated by inefficiency


    ENTJ and Career Change

    ENTJ

    Your preferred work environment

    High energy, fast paced and results orientated
    Contains people who can operate independently towards organisational goals
    Is efficient as a result of clear systems and structures
    Offers ongoing challenges
    Rewards decisiveness and results through status and salary
    Is tough minded
    Allows opportunities for them to take the lead

    Your leadership style

    Natural visionary leader
    Ready and willing to take charge
    Energetic and action orientated
    Lead by developing a broad vision of the way forward
    Can be tough decision maker when needed
    Actively seek out the lead
    Direct and no-nonsense style

    Impatient with detail

    If you can't even see the differences between ESTJ and ENTJ, stop wasting everyone's time.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    An alleged ENTJ with an alleged Socionics type of ENTp.



    The above scenario clearly illustrates someone who is interested in nothing more than enforcing a superficial policy.
    Enforcing and/or monitoring policy is not ENTJ's modus operandi.

    ENTJ has a visionary goal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to reach.

    This is just one more example of why you have no business typing people.
    Your posts continually demonstrate incompetence.

    To be fair, this is true. I'm actually uncomfortable with the ENTJ lable, however in certain areas (like parenthood) I do act in this way. But the types are really more fluid than what Sim is suggesting.

    My whole life I've analyzed and catagorized EVERYTHING ad nauseum which would seem to support Ni and I realate a lot to INTJs. My mom was forever complaining that I was trying to put life in a neat little box instead of enjoying it. I also remember begging her for chores, so I would have an easy to understand framework and free up my Saturdays for science projects and Kung Fu theater!

    On the other hand I can waste a LOT of time rambling over myriad subjects with INTPs from cryptozoology, military history, string theory, theology, etc. and always have a theory for everything. I also sometimes forget that people don't know what I'm talking about when they ask a simple question and I give them a 1/2 hour episode of Connections with James Burke. Causing a former student of mine to declare, "Ask (Windigo) a question and it's blah, blah, blah equals the history of the world an hour later."

    I have been typed as an ENTP for my wild adventures such as breaking into a castle in Wales to listen to the town bells echo through the dungeon as they struck midnight to spending the night in the abandoned cabin where Charles Manson was arrested just to say I did. I've been known to break a few rules to test their validity and also for causing my fiance to exlaim, "Jeeze and all this time I've been getting pissed off thinking that you actually believe what you say, and really you just love to argue for sport!"

    But most people see me as an ENTJ because I am always trying to improve the efficiency within all my organizations (home, work, community, etc.). I am especially concerned with developing a clear, tangible and consistent vision for an endeavor. I see that too much time is wasted because the powers that be are grasping at every idea and not really knowing what they want or what is possible. I enjoy developing a clear vision that EVERYONE understands. Also, I can't help trying to fix things when I see a lot of confused/angry people and see that they can all get back to work and become excited about their work if someone gives them that vision. I hate confusion I am compelled to help out if I see a way to get everyone happy and back on board even if it is not my job. I am not afraid to challenge those in charge, which is why when the proverbial shit hits the fan everyone seems to jump behind me for protection. In fact, although I never sought out leadership positions (I would rather do everything myself--the "right" way--and not stand around micromanaging people) I find myself being followed where ever I go. Look, I didn't ask you people to follow me, but now that you're all looking at me with a mixture of fear and hope in your eyes, I won't be able to sleep if I don't do something for you.

    Usually the people in my life who have seen me as micromanaging/meddling have been my bosses and my ISFJ daughter (and usually they are women for some reason--I have always been respected and taken seriously by men). And thank you Jaguar . . . I always suspected that my former boss and sidekick were an ESTJ/ISTJ combo who were more interested in making people follow stupid rules based on tradition and way too concerned with titles and degrees.

    Our company was floundering because the work environment was oppressive. I saw the issue as a confused vision and made a suggestion. They also liked to nit-pick me for not following "procedure." They got mad because I would retort, "What does the procedure have to do with the goal here?" I listen to EVERYONEs opinions regardless of seniority or experience. If the idea lines up with the vision/goal and looks like it might work and everyone is agreeable we'll give it a shot!

    I was laid off from the company despite the fact that my department was the only department that saw a 25% overall increase in productivity. And my people were happy. Six months after I was gone the board let go of the ESTJ.

    The majority of people around me see me as a caring, helpful, hard working, insightful, knowledgeable, emotionally stable, funny, and decisive.

    However, I do get REALLY pissed off when someone "says" they understand the vision but repeatedly does the same stupid thing. (It's the ONLY time you will see me angry). Are you lying to me and really need to get another job? Or don't you realize the validity behind the maxim that insanity means repeatedly doing the same action but expecting different results?

    So now that you "know" me a little better, maybe you can figure me out, because the more I read the less clear the box becomes.

    PS Sim, I've always thoroughly enjoyed the many ENTPs in my life. Are you sure you're not confusing your friend's bathroom habits with ENTJ instead of OCD?

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