Maybe I'm wrong about my type?

[alicia91]

After reading more on this site, I'm starting to doubt my type. Or perhaps I'm just not the 'stereotype' of an ISTJ. A few things about me:

* when I was younger I was more outgoing - possibly an E, now that I'm 40 I've mellowed.
* as a kid I loved telling people what to do (was bossy). My mom claims that I was a bit like Angelica from Rugrats. I still like 'grabbing the bull by the horns' and taking over and doing things MY way. I have to be a leader if it's something that I care about, if I don't care, then I am fine in the background.
* I'm great at giving advice - people tell me that I give the BEST advice on everything -relationships, careers, raising kids, etc. Because I'm good at it, I spend lots of time being an amateur psycologist to friends and family (which can be draining). I'm a great problem-solver.
* I challenge authority if necessary. I've written to the schools that my kids go to about a couple of ridiculous policies (illness is no longer an excused absence!) and in one case got the policy changed. I have no problem 'speaking out' (but I'm always very polite and logical/rational).
* I'm very concerned about my personal 'productivity.' At the end of the day I want to be able to say 'this is what I've accomplished' even if it's just boring household stuff. I don't think that I'm naturally productive, it's something that I'm always trying to improve.
* I am a perfectionist about a lot of things but unfortunately, I'm often disappointed in myself, since things often don't turn out the way I'd hoped. On magazine quiz, it said that my personality was "Frusterated Perfectionist" and that's me to a T.
* Organized versus disorganized? hard to say. I used to be completely disorganized, but I've learned that to be productive I must stay organized. So I'm constantly working on it. In some areas of my life I'm super-organized, in other's - not at all (and that really bothers me).
* planned or unplanned? Both. I love to plan detailed itineries for vacations and such but when I get there if something that I didn't plan on seems more fun, I'll chuck the plan. But I am known as the Disney World Commando by my family.
* In my day-to-day work, I make elaborate plans but rarely stick to them and feel guilty about it. Right now I'm supposed to be working-out but I'm on the computer!
* I think I'm a Chart-the Course type.
* I'm creative, but not in a poetry or writing or abstact kind of way. I design decks, gardens, interiors. My visual/spatial skills are my biggest talent. Not at all good with mechanical things or tools.
* easy going on the outside, not so much on the inside (if I care about something), if I don't care then I don't get worked up about it.
* extremely even tempered on the outside, even if I'm giving someone a piece of my mind.
* medium in terms of patience
* former teenaged/early 20's party-animal, but I'm currently on the board at my church - hee, hee
* not sure if this plays into MBTI theory or not, but from my research (yes, I love to research, should have been a librarian!) I've learned that children of alcoholics often have that 'need to establish control' which I obviously have (not sure if it's natural to me though, or just a learned habit).



Any thoughts?

 

[Splittet]

My thought is, take this test: Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes

 

[alicia91]

Thank you Splittet. I took the test, here are the results.

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ******************************** (32.3)
good use
introverted Sensing (Si) ******************************* (31.6)
good use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************** (22.3)
limited use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************** (22.8)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) *************************************** (39.2)
excellent use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************* (37.4)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************************* (31.2)
good use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *********************** (23.2)
limited use


Summary Analysis of Profile
By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: ESTJ

I'm going to spend some time reading it closely. I'm just still so new to all of this that I need to let it sink in.

 

[Splittet]

The main insight here, is that you are probably a thinking type rather than feeling type. You could be any ST type.

 

[alicia91]

Darn, I must be half-asleep still. It says ESTJ, not F. Ok, big difference.

 

[FDG]

Sounds like an ISFJ, what's the problem?

 

[Splittet]

Darn, I must be half-asleep still. It says ESTJ, not F. Ok, big difference.

Notice your total thinking score is 76,6, while your total feeling score is 54,4. Also both your thinking scores are higher than any of your feeling scores. Judging by your signature, it seems like you have tested quite close on the T/F dichotomy. This test then becomes a very clear indication you are actually a T. The test says you are clearly S. The test indicates you are close on both the I/E and J/P dichotomies though. Hence, I say you can be any ST type.

 

[alicia91]

Aren't ISFJ' supposed to be - very traditional (I don't think I am), not leaders (I'm more leader than follower), not confrontational (I'll confront BS when I notice it - easily), organized (I am great at organizing other people, and I LIKE it, unfortuntely I don't always follow my own advice).

I guess I was mostly doubting it because I love to lead, come up with new ideas, am very open-minded and most of the descriptions of ISFJ's make them seem like they are extremely 'service-oriented' (love to serve others, need to be needed, etc.) and I'm kind of neutral on that.

Thanks for the input FDG!

 

[FDG]

Aren't ISFJ' supposed to be - very traditional (I don't think I am), not leaders (I'm more leader than follower), not confrontational (I'll confront BS when I notice it - easily), organized (I am great at organizing other people, and I LIKE it, unfortuntely I don't always follow my own advice).

I guess I was mostly doubting it because I love to lead, come up with new ideas, am very open-minded and most of the descriptions of ISFJ's make them seem like they are extremely 'service-oriented' (love to serve others, need to be needed, etc.) and I'm kind of neutral on that.

Thanks for the input!

Well loving to lead isn't really a COMMON trait of ISFJs, but it probably depends on the area. You tend to take the lead in the areas that are you strenghts and tend to follow in the areas that are your weakness, usually. That's what everybody does, right?

 

[Totenkindly]

You definitely do have some T tendencies, Alicia... but you are not an easy nut to crack because ISFJs can still have many of the traits you listed.

One bias in United States culture is that many women find themselves "pushed" towards an ISFJ mindset. So it can be difficult to tell whether one is really ISFJ or some other type with an ISFJ overlay.

And throwing it the tidbit about children of alcoholics... well, now you have blown the door wide open. It really messes us up; and while there are general traits of CoA people possess as a group, the extent and type of impact really does differ from individual to individual (as I am sure you noticed in your reading -- many of the traits were extremes... you might become a control freak or you might become completely unwilling to control anything, etc.)

Your artistic skills/style seems to be more S than N, that's for certain.

I do not really see a problem with an ESTJ read. I'm just pointing out that some of your ISFJs who have a strong judging function (or show some T aptitude) will have many of these same traits. ESTJ might be the better fit overall, though. As FDG points out, in an area of strength where they feel "experienced," ISFJs can dominate greatly and want to be in charge (mostly because, "If you want something done RIGHT, do it yourself." And that tends to be their leadership style -- they do as much behind the scenes as possible, by themselves, and otherwise tell people the "right way" to do something).

It would be fun to watch you walk through your day... that would probably resolve it one way or another.

 

[alicia91]

Notice your total thinking score is 76,6, while your total feeling score is 54,4. Also both your thinking scores are higher than any of your feeling scores. Judging by your signature, it seems like you have tested quite close on the T/F dichotomy. This test then becomes a very clear indication you are actually a T. The test says you are clearly S. The test indicates you are close on both the I/E and J/P dichotomies though. Hence, I say you can be any ST type.

True. I am going to read up on the ST types and see if they are a better fit. In terms of the I/E I'm not sure if it's going to be very clear-cut because I do think I'm right near the middle, though I'm becoming more I with age (or is it stress? ha ha). The J/P I don't have a good understanding of and at this point have no opinion, I must read up on that.

 

[Totenkindly]

True. I am going to read up on the ST types and see if they are a better fit. In terms of the I/E I'm not sure if it's going to be very clear-cut because I do think I'm right near the middle, though I'm becoming more I with age (or is it stress? ha ha). The J/P I don't have a good understanding of and at this point have no opinion, I must read up on that.

As discussed elsewhere on the site, the J/P sounds very minor but actually makes the largest difference in terms of what functions you actually use.

(An ISFJ versus an ISFP is a totally separate creature, for example.)

We can look at ESTJ and ISFJ:

ESTJ = Te + Si + Ne + Fi
ISFJ = Si + Fe + Ti + Ne

So there is a little bit of similarity, with the Si overlaps. ISFJ references Si first and expresses it through extroverted Feeling, while ESTJ has an Si secondary that is used to support extroverted Thinking.

The Ne can be dangerous for both too. For immature ISFJs, the future is frightening and possibilities (what could happen) can seem overwhelming. ISFJs, if they are too anchored in Si, can see almost paranoid about things that might happen if a situation is left completely undefined or if they have no map for it; their fears will rise up and swallow them. ESTJ meanwhile will use Ne to buttress their Te judging function ("Here's a possibility of something we can do or fix!"), rather than developing Si further and using it as a guide for Te.

 

[alicia91]

It's all so interesting, but confusing (I only started to read about this a few months ago).

I wonder how important it is to have others who know us well answer these questions? I mean, are we really objective about ourselves? I think my husband would say that in my original post that I'm being hard on myself, and that I'm actually very accomplished, and a totally reliable type of person. But I'm super-hard on myself. I tend to say 'my whole house is a disaster' when it's really only a few loads of laundry that need to be done.

For immature ISFJs, the future is frightening and possibilities (what could happen) can seem overwhelming. ISFJs, if they are too anchored in Si, can see almost paranoid about things that might happen if a situation is left completely undefined or if they have no map for it; their fears will rise up and swallow them. ESTJ meanwhile will use Ne to buttress their Te judging function ("Here's a possibility of something we can do or fix!"),

When I get anxiety (did I mention that I sometimes have that?) I tend to become anxious of the future but when I'm not in an anxiety phase then I tend to be more rational 'I know that could be solved.'

It would be fun to watch you walk through your day... that would probably resolve it one way or another

Ok, I this must be an S moment because I'm not sure if you mean just figuratively or you want me to give you an example of my day?

 

[DaRick]

After reading more on this site, I'm starting to doubt my type. Or perhaps I'm just not the 'stereotype' of an ISTJ. A few things about me:

* when I was younger I was more outgoing - possibly an E, now that I'm 40 I've mellowed.

By mellowed, I'll assume that you've turned into more of an introvert.

* as a kid I loved telling people what to do (was bossy). My mom claims that I was a bit like Angelica from Rugrats. I still like 'grabbing the bull by the horns' and taking over and doing things MY way. I have to be a leader if it's something that I care about, if I don't care, then I am fine in the background.

What are you like more often? Do you take control more often, or do you go into the background more often?

* I'm great at giving advice - people tell me that I give the BEST advice on everything -relationships, careers, raising kids, etc. Because I'm good at it, I spend lots of time being an amateur psycologist to friends and family (which can be draining). I'm a great problem-solver.

This sounds rather F-ish. By problem-solver, I assume that you mean that you are adept at resolving personal conflicts. Unless you use logic correctly to solve personal problems...

* I challenge authority if necessary. I've written to the schools that my kids go to about a couple of ridiculous policies (illness is no longer an excused absence!) and in one case got the policy changed. I have no problem 'speaking out' (but I'm always very polite and logical/rational).

Yeah, that sounds pretty dumb. This sounds ENTJ-ish - going against authority, making sure others adhere to your standards and so forth. I may be conforming to ENTJ stereotypes in saying this, though.

* I'm very concerned about my personal 'productivity.' At the end of the day I want to be able to say 'this is what I've accomplished' even if it's just boring household stuff. I don't think that I'm naturally productive, it's something that I'm always trying to improve.

Sounds J-ish. Trying to do as much as possible within a certain timeframe...I can relate to that.

* I am a perfectionist about a lot of things but unfortunately, I'm often disappointed in myself, since things often don't turn out the way I'd hoped. On magazine quiz, it said that my personality was "Frusterated Perfectionist" and that's me to a T.

Sounds NJ-ish - imaging life as it could be and losing a sense of order when things don't go your way.

* Organized versus disorganized? hard to say. I used to be completely disorganized, but I've learned that to be productive I must stay organized. So I'm constantly working on it. In some areas of my life I'm super-organized, in other's - not at all (and that really bothers me).

I'm so sure whether organisation in itself is a strong indicator of J and P. You can organise yourself at the last minute (as my ISTP dad does), or organise yourself early (as I do).

* planned or unplanned? Both. I love to plan detailed itineries for vacations and such but when I get there if something that I didn't plan on seems more fun, I'll chuck the plan. But I am known as the Disney World Commando by my family.

Sounds like a weak J - making a plan initially, but willing to alter it if something better comes along

* In my day-to-day work, I make elaborate plans but rarely stick to them and feel guilty about it. Right now I'm supposed to be working-out but I'm on the computer!

Hmm...to an extent, I can relate to this. The fact that you even made elaborate plans suggests a slight tendency towards the J though, for your J tends to appear before your P.

* I think I'm a Chart-the Course type.

J.

* I'm creative, but not in a poetry or writing or abstact kind of way. I design decks, gardens, interiors. My visual/spatial skills are my biggest talent. Not at all good with mechanical things or tools.

You're probably not an ISTP then - my ISTP father is an excellent handyman. This is definitely S-ish, though. Do you plan what you design beforehand or just 'go with the flow'?

* easy going on the outside, not so much on the inside (if I care about something), if I don't care then I don't get worked up about it.

This makes me think 'Introvert!'. I'm like this too...a calm facade hiding a personality wrought with alarming mood swings, anxiety and 'introverted anger'. I've heard that INTJ's hold themselves back the most, but I think all I's do, for their interest in people is obviously reduced in favour of their own inward reflections and thoughts.

* extremely even tempered on the outside, even if I'm giving someone a piece of my mind.

I would say IT, due to an implied withholding of true feelings.

* medium in terms of patience

Borderline J/P? Please clarify what you mean further.

* former teenaged/early 20's party-animal, but I'm currently on the board at my church - hee, hee

Taking responsibility on a church board - this does indeed sound STJ-ish. (many INTJ's are atheists and agnostics - I'm different, in that I'm a practicing Catholic who doesn't really relate to either belief) How outspoken are you during board meetings?

* not sure if this plays into MBTI theory or not, but from my research (yes, I love to research, should have been a librarian!) I've learned that children of alcoholics often have that 'need to establish control' which I obviously have (not sure if it's natural to me though, or just a learned habit).

A librarian would be a job most ideal for IJ's, for me. Why do you love to research? Just because you love facts, because you wish to see why certain events or things occur in life, or because you like looking for correlations while researching? The last part is certainly J-ish - taking control to bring closure.

Any thoughts?

You do indeed seem like an ISTJ to me. Faced between pitting you on the S and N side, I decided to throw you on the S-side. Your association with a church board, along with your explicit reliance on your senses made me do this, along with my implication of intuitive qualities within you that I could well have imagined. So yeah, I would say that ISTJ is a viable type for you (although you have ISFJ below your avatar :S).

 

[Totenkindly]

It's all so interesting, but confusing (I only started to read about this a few months ago).

I started reading about it in 1996 or so... and still think that in some ways I don't know that much. I remember having "Big Click" moments even within the last few years, where I thought I had understood but realized that I had been missing a great deal. (Such as when I thought J/P were actually functions in their own rights, but really they are not. Or when I realized how and why functions, according to the theory, had to line up and be matched a certain way...)

I wonder how important it is to have others who know us well answer these questions? I mean, are we really objective about ourselves? I think my husband would say that in my original post that I'm being hard on myself, and that I'm actually very accomplished, and a totally reliable type of person. But I'm super-hard on myself. I tend to say 'my whole house is a disaster' when it's really only a few loads of laundry that need to be done.

Exactly, it is hard sometimes to "unpack" someone's self-criticism unless we have seen what they're referring to. Then we can sort of calibrate our sense of "here's what they mean when they say...."

Outside evaluation helps, but your husband still only sees one part of you as well -- the outside, and it is also through his own set of biases. Mostly it is a sense of using your insights and his and other people's to sort of "triangulate" everything.

When I get anxiety (did I mention that I sometimes have that?) I tend to become anxious of the future but when I'm not in an anxiety phase then I tend to be more rational 'I know that could be solved.'

Hmmm.... what sort of things make you anxious? (You don't need to answer if it is too much disclosure.)

Ok, I this must be an S moment because I'm not sure if you mean just figuratively or you want me to give you an example of my day?

Oh -- I was just speculating N-style and musing to myself. I would probably have to watch you. When we describe behaviors in text, we often can't write in the nuances that arise from inner motivation that seem much more obvious when the behavior is observed.

 

[Xander]

ISFJ? I was reading your opening post and thought ENFJ. As for the opening post it's not always that reliable to type off of a persons judgement of their own behaviour. For example my sister sometimes says that she's in a mess and not organised but she's the only person I know who has her smalls draw organised in rows and matched up into sets!!

All opinions are relative to the person giving them. Perhaps more examples of your behaviour would be indicative? Mind you the lack of examples would lead me to think that your not a sensor at all but an intuitive person. You see America as a whole pressures people to be sensors quite heavily and so many intuitives which I've conversed with from the States sound and act more like sensors to me.

 

[Totenkindly]

ISFJ? I was reading your opening post and thought ENFJ. As for the opening post it's not always that reliable to type off of a persons judgement of their own behaviour. For example my sister sometimes says that she's in a mess and not organised but she's the only person I know who has her smalls draw organised in rows and matched up into sets!!

All opinions are relative to the person giving them. Perhaps more examples of your behaviour would be indicative? Mind you the lack of examples would lead me to think that your not a sensor at all but an intuitive person. You see America as a whole pressures people to be sensors quite heavily and so many intuitives which I've conversed with from the States sound and act more like sensors to me.

The fun of online typing: I don't see N or ENFJ at all...

(the puzzle thickens!)

 

[miss fortune]

I actually thought that the description sounded somewhat like my isfj mom!

 

[Randomnity]

When people commit to plans with you (especially if you planned it) and then decide last minute that they want to change them (ie go to a bar with you instead of dancing or something) do you get angry/upset/hurt? That's the biggest thing I've noticed with my two ESFJ friends. They both really like giving advice too, and take pride in giving good advice.

I don't know any ISTJs or ISFJs though for comparison.

I guess you don't have an idea of which other type you might be, other than xSTJ? The results of your test don't really show a big enough difference to definitively identify you as a particular type. You definitely sound SJ though.

EDIT: Actually everything you wrote could describe my (tested) ESFJ friend. She can seem introverted and very logical at times, and she isn't excessively traditional (though a lot moreso than me).

 

[Xander]

The fun of online typing: I don't see N or ENFJ at all...

(the puzzle thickens!)

I shall attempt to explain.

After reading more on this site, I'm starting to doubt my type. Or perhaps I'm just not the 'stereotype' of an ISTJ. A few things about me:

* when I was younger I was more outgoing - possibly an E, now that I'm 40 I've mellowed.

This reads extrovert to me as I'd expect introverts to go the other way and become more comfortable being around people as they mature.

* as a kid I loved telling people what to do (was bossy). My mom claims that I was a bit like Angelica from Rugrats. I still like 'grabbing the bull by the horns' and taking over and doing things MY way. I have to be a leader if it's something that I care about, if I don't care, then I am fine in the background.

The character says ENFJ to me. What's her name out of Peanuts. That was a nickname used for my sister. Peppermint Patty wasn't it?

* I'm great at giving advice - people tell me that I give the BEST advice on everything -relationships, careers, raising kids, etc. Because I'm good at it, I spend lots of time being an amateur psycologist to friends and family (which can be draining). I'm a great problem-solver.

ENFJs are great advisors and my sister in particular is often surrounded by those who want advice. She's usually being told about a persons troubled history within about five minutes of meeting them and it stems from there.

Obviously this is not exclusive to the type but the whole "BEST" thing says EF to me and I'm getting the N vibe from the post as a whole.

* I challenge authority if necessary. I've written to the schools that my kids go to about a couple of ridiculous policies (illness is no longer an excused absence!) and in one case got the policy changed. I have no problem 'speaking out' (but I'm always very polite and logical/rational).

Lori's mother is both an ENFJ and quite the battler. The type as a whole says to me "I'll give you hell if I think you deserve it" but in a nice and polite kind of way...well except my sister who's a little more than "heart on sleeve".

* I'm very concerned about my personal 'productivity.' At the end of the day I want to be able to say 'this is what I've accomplished' even if it's just boring household stuff. I don't think that I'm naturally productive, it's something that I'm always trying to improve.

This bit says ENFJ because of the productivity in real terms but not feeling 100% about it. Perhaps if it was more productivity surrounding helping people it would feel more fulfilling?

* I am a perfectionist about a lot of things but unfortunately, I'm often disappointed in myself, since things often don't turn out the way I'd hoped. On magazine quiz, it said that my personality was "Frusterated Perfectionist" and that's me to a T.

Frustrated perfectionist? That's not really T as I'd see it more as "Can't do that as well as I'd like so I'm not going to do it at all or be happy with the results I get" kind of thing. Also the whole being disappointed sounds more like an F speaking than a T to me.

* Organized versus disorganized? hard to say. I used to be completely disorganized, but I've learned that to be productive I must stay organized. So I'm constantly working on it. In some areas of my life I'm super-organized, in other's - not at all (and that really bothers me).

This so sounds like a J chastising themselves for not being super organised person with glued on grin rather than a P admonishing themselves for forgetting to eat for three days running. As I said it's all relative to the person making the comment.

* planned or unplanned? Both. I love to plan detailed itineries for vacations and such but when I get there if something that I didn't plan on seems more fun, I'll chuck the plan. But I am known as the Disney World Commando by my family.

Itinerary screams EJ to me. Organising other people to that extent and liking it!!! Has to be Evil J

* In my day-to-day work, I make elaborate plans but rarely stick to them and feel guilty about it. Right now I'm supposed to be working-out but I'm on the computer!

The manner in which that is described says F to me and the whole N vibe is still nagging at me. No extraneous explanation, drawn from fresh air as an example or parallel to what's happening.... it's saying N to my eyes.

* I think I'm a Chart-the Course type.
* I'm creative, but not in a poetry or writing or abstact kind of way. I design decks, gardens, interiors. My visual/spatial skills are my biggest talent. Not at all good with mechanical things or tools.

My sister did look at interior design and is very keen on such things but that's no real guide. The descriptive style used does sound similar though.

* easy going on the outside, not so much on the inside (if I care about something), if I don't care then I don't get worked up about it.

Hell if nothing else that rules out ENFP

* extremely even tempered on the outside, even if I'm giving someone a piece of my mind.

Even tempered...I think my sister used to think she was even tempered. She always had a rationale for being over the top upset or jumping down your throat mad. Such a logical person

* medium in terms of patience

So not very patient at all then?
Either that or very patient but admonishing oneself for not being patient enough to be the new Buddha or something. It's usually one or the other. Few people honestly rate them selves as mediocre and yet deem it significant enough to include in a brief about themselves.

* former teenaged/early 20's party-animal, but I'm currently on the board at my church - hee, hee

Hee hee??? That sounds F to me and NF at that. Not sure why but it does.

* not sure if this plays into MBTI theory or not, but from my research (yes, I love to research, should have been a librarian!) I've learned that children of alcoholics often have that 'need to establish control' which I obviously have (not sure if it's natural to me though, or just a learned habit).

I can't see this as anything in particular. It sounds more like an avid interest than a chore and hence fairly irrelevant to typing. Hell I like researching some things!!

I should just add that I don't know any ESFJs well enough to compare the two possibilities.