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  1. #41
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    As for the creative piece, this is just my opinion, but I don't think you can rule out creativity from any of the types - maybe different types or inclinations of creativity, but just because the ESxJ descriptions don't mention anything about creativity, doesn't mean the ESxJ person is therefore NEVER creative. I just briefly glanced at an ISFJ description, and didn't see 'creative' listed for ISFJ either - but an ISFJ friend of mine definitely sees herself as creative and one of her favorite pasttimes is scrapbooking, and being creative in that way.

    I think a lot of it too is that as you've gotten older, you have been branching out in your traits, or rather, some of your traits/tendencies may have 'mellowed out'. You've mentioned this yourself in a few of your posts!! I think most people (at least those who aim to grow as a person) tend to become more comfortable with all of the different functions as they age, so that it isn't so black and white, and might be more subtle.

    From your descriptions of your childhood, you do sound a bit more E, but I also don't know how more extroverted ISTJ's/ISFJ's would act as children. I also get a lot more 'S' from you, and given the Ne/Ni cognitive function results being rather low in comparison to Se/Si, I think that speaks more towards S as well.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    Aren't ISFJ' supposed to be - very traditional (I don't think I am), not leaders (I'm more leader than follower), not confrontational (I'll confront BS when I notice it - easily), organized (I am great at organizing other people, and I LIKE it, unfortuntely I don't always follow my own advice).

    I guess I was mostly doubting it because I love to lead, come up with new ideas, am very open-minded and most of the descriptions of ISFJ's make them seem like they are extremely 'service-oriented' (love to serve others, need to be needed, etc.) and I'm kind of neutral on that.

    Thanks for the input FDG!
    OK, from a completely intuitive standpoint I'd say that my experience of ISFJ's as an ENTJ is that there are many deep ressemblances.

    My gf is a very clear ISFJ, moderate F, and we share many traits in common. Of course, not superficially. Because at first she seems reserved and shy. She can be quite bossy too, often took the lead in projects, is perfectionnistic, is not especially service oriented, likes giving advice, is not especially traditional (actually very tolerant and open-minded, just not interest in theory or imagining possibilities for their own sake), etc. She values "Extraverted Thinking" alot and enjoys using it or when she sees it in others. She will challenge authority and people who are unfair in a way that would scare most apparently assertive types.

    However, importantly, she is a genuinely honest, principled and fair person. She is extremely trustworthy and straightforward. No mind games and respects people's boundaires. She takes no for an answer and no matter how much people dissapoint her, she remains fair and trustworthy. Incredibly mature person.

    Now, let's get down to the facts and speak a language that I'm sure you'll understand: you test ISxJ, so you are an ISxJ. If the descriptions of ISTJ or ISFJ don't fit, it's because there's a problem with the descriptions or theory.

  3. #43
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Alicia you are confronting the major problem with MBTI. You'll go read the ESJ descriptions and think, "Hmmm, I don't feel like I'm a docile mule who values security and tradition so much that if all that I held sacred hung in the balance I'd boldly form a human chain to impede the progress that would save it."

    So then you begin to wonder if you're an S or an N. I noticed when intro thread you were very sure to point out that you are a "weak S." Why did you feel a need to say that? Many people here proudly brag about how strongly intuitive they are. The bad news is you're basically stuck as the type you came in with. People are going type you as an SJ because that's what you first identified with when you came in. Whatever type you are, it will show in your posting style. I don't know what type you are because I haven't seen enough of you to tell, from what I'm seeing you sound EJ, probably ESJ but I'm not sure.

    You sound like a person of diverse. Hopefully, you'll stick around and have people scratching their heads.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #44
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    Alicia you are confronting the major problem with MBTI. You'll go read the ESJ descriptions and think, "Hmmm, I don't feel like I'm a docile mule who values security and tradition so much that if all that I held sacred hung in the balance I'd boldly form a human chain to impede the progress that would save it."
    LOL (where's the laughing smilie when you needs it?) So true! I think I started to object to the ISFJ's stereotype of 'sheeplike and shallow.'

    Proteanmix - do you mean that I pointed out that I'm strongly S - I think my intro post made that point, not the reverse? I mentioned my S-type interests. Anyhow, if I did, then it must have been a typo since I've thought my interests were mostly S-type things. Hmm..

    Now, if we get down to the facts and speak a language I'm sure you'll understand: you test ISFJ, so you are an ISFJ. If the description doesn't fit, it's because there's a problem with the description and theory
    How about a problem with the test? For so many of the questions I've honestly wanted to answer 'it depends on the situation' but of course that's never an option. Or I wonder 'should I answer it based on an ideal situation for me (what would make me happiest) or the way I go about it RIGHT NOW?' Not straightforward IMO.

    Anyhow, thanks so much everyone! I really appreciate everyone taking the time to write such detailed, helpful posts. One day I hope to be able to do the same. Right now I'm off to start my first class in Adobe Photoshop. Should be fun! I'll check back later.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    How about a problem with the test? For so many of the questions I've honestly wanted to answer 'it depends on the situation' but of course that's never an option. Or I wonder 'should I answer it based on an ideal situation for me (what would make me happiest) or the way I go about it RIGHT NOW?' Not straightforward IMO.

    Anyhow, thanks so much everyone! I really appreciate everyone taking the time to write such detailed, helpful posts. One day I hope to be able to do the same. Right now I'm off to start my first class in Adobe Photoshop. Should be fun! I'll check back later.
    Of course that's possible but here I see you took the test on similarminds. Even if done by an amateur, they are reliable and validated and I actually think the answering format is superior to the forced choice in the official MBTI. The problem is not with those tests. If you are unsure, you can just answer in the middle.

    A better system of personality is the Five Factor model, for which there is a reliable and valid test here:

    Short Form for the IPIP NEO-PI, Introductory Information

    It would be interesting for you to report those results and see if this could help us in seeing the situation more clearly.

    MBTI theory pretends everyone has a preference but there is no scientific evidence behind this. So if you test middle of the road on something, consider yourself an "x" on that dimension.

  6. #46
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    ..."Hmmm, I don't feel like I'm a docile mule who values security and tradition so much that if all that I held sacred hung in the balance I'd boldly form a human chain to impede the progress that would save it."...
    tee-hee

  7. #47
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    ... How about a problem with the test? For so many of the questions I've honestly wanted to answer 'it depends on the situation' but of course that's never an option. Or I wonder 'should I answer it based on an ideal situation for me (what would make me happiest) or the way I go about it RIGHT NOW?' Not straightforward IMO. ...
    My favorite test is here - favorite in that it usually gives accurate results:
    Online test based on Jung - Myers-Briggs typology

  8. #48
    To the top of the world arcticangel02's Avatar
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    Also, have you looked at Best-Fit Type : Exploring the Multiple Models of Personality Type? The descriptions there are very good, because they come from discussions with people of that type themselves, rather than theoretical description. Tends to get rid of some of that bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    Very good question! When I was younger (say a teen) I would have gotten involved and nagged her about his bad qualities, why she is too good for him and possibly tried to hook her up with someone better. Now that I'm older and have mostly concluded that nobody is perfect, and people need to WANT to change their situations THEMSELVES, I would let it go. However, if there was a lot of complaining from my friend, I would certainly say something. For example, lets say my friend was intelligent, educated and ambitious and her SO was a uneducated, lazy, idiot, when she complained I would say 'I've always know you as a person who has strong convictions about what you want in life, I guess ending up with 'Joe' is part of that, though I'm not sure how he fits in. What exactly do you see in him?' If she were to ask directly 'what do you think of Joe?' I would say 'seems kind of uneducated and lazy, but perhaps he has lots of great qualities that make up for those?'
    Interesting!

    And to save writing an essay here (amongst other things), I'll PM you.
    ANFP:
    Extraversion (52%) ---- Introversion (48%)
    Sensing (26%) ---- iNtuition (74%)
    Thinking (16%) ---- Feeling (84%)
    Judging (5%) ---- Perceiving (95%)

    9w1 so/sx/sp

  9. #49
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    I've really been thinking about all of this and while I haven't come to any conclusions I'm really stuck on what Jennifer posted about how as females ISFJ tendencies are rewarded. So to some extend I'm wondering what is the 'real' me versus just what I've been doing for the last 15 years. The truth is that a little over a year ago I started a part-time decorating business because I couldn't stand being a housewife for one more day! I was unfullfilled and my self-esteem was at an all time low. I felt trapped in the house, like a slave for my family, and taken for granted by everyone. While I do the usual housewifey things, I really dislike being tied to my house.

    I'm also wondering if I'm an E that is a bit socially rusty or lacks confidence or if I'm a mild I. It's like I desperately want to go out and be more social, I'm just not used to it. But perhaps that points to an I? Another thing that's important to me is to have a lot of variety in what I do. For example, while I love to finish up projects, I also want a new one to dive into right away. I can't stand REALLY long-term projects that take forever. I want immediate, tangible results. That's why I 'install' most everything for my clients. I climb a ladder, mount the art, move the sofa, roll out the rug and light the candles. So while I do a good job ( I don't purposely rush) my philosophy: NEW PROJECT, WORK HARD........... NEXT!! Even with my daily stuff around the house, I might designate the hours of 11-1 to get things done, but I don't want to do what I did yesterday. I like novelty - PLANNED novelty! LOL

    Something else that may or may not be relevant is my educational history. Right after high school, I wen to university to study Economics. Why? I have no idea. I eventually switched to Political Science and History but didn't graduate. I liked the courses but honestly couldn't forsee myself working in any of these fields which is why I dropped out after 3 years. Then I worked a series of jobs like Office Space Leasing Agent - OK job, Receptinist at Veterinarian - worst job ever (liked the receptionist job but hated cleaning kennels and bathing cats), Sales clerk - loved it, modeling - I'm a bit short so I got jobs like swimsuit modeling, working auto-shows etc. I didn't like it all that much, WAY too focused on the exterior even for me and I'm really into fashion and beauty. Went back to school and eventually in my late 20's got a degree in Interior Design. I don't like everything to do with this career either but it's better than PoliSci.

    Another thing - when I think I've got the correct letters I-S-T-J for example, I read the descriptions and don't think it describes me at all!

    Thanks for the test links - I'll do those and post my results.

  10. #50
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    I took the Short Form test that Maverick posted. I'm depressed, I must be the most average person ever. Here are my scores:

    Extraversion - 48

    Your score on Extraversion is average, indicating you are neither a subdued loner nor a jovial chatterbox. You enjoy time with others but also time alone.

    Agreeableness - 43

    Your level of Agreeableness is average, indicating some concern with others' Needs, but, generally, unwillingness to sacrifice yourself for others.

    Concientiousness - 59

    Your score on Conscientiousness is average. This means you are reasonably reliable, organized, and self-controlled

    Neuroticism - 49

    Your score on Neuroticism is average, indicating that your level of emotional reactivity is typical of the general population. Stressful and frustrating situations are somewhat upsetting to you, but you are generally able to get over these feelings and cope with these situations.

    Openess to Exeprience - 38

    Your score on Openness to Experience is average, indicating you enjoy tradition but are willing to try new things. Your thinking is neither simple nor complex. To others you appear to be a well-educated person but not an intellectual.

    I'm going to spend more time reading my results. Hopefully I can learn something from it. What I found interesting was that my level of Self-Sufficiency was low - 25. I agree with this. I think this is a problem for me in general and it's something that I'd like to improve. I guess it's the same thing as Confidence which I've always lacked - but often been able to fake.


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