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  1. #111
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splittet
    This statement is actually quite INFJ. You mentioned that you identify most with Ni, Fe and Ti, which are the first three functions of INFJs (ENFJ is a possibility as well, but INFJ fits a little better). You have both Fi and Se in the no group, the two first functions of the ISFP, which basically makes it impossible that you are ISFP. As an ISFP your dominant function is Fi, and is that possible? It also makes ISTP very unlikely, because you have Se in the no group, and if ISTP, your Se is your second strongest function. Then again though, you might have misunderstood the functions, and your impressions might be wrong. But if you believe in these impressions, INFJ sounds most likely.
    The only thing I wonder about is that back on page 1 of this thread, when she took the cognitive function test, both Se and Si were well used (in the 30's), as were both Te and Ti, and both Ni and Ne were fairly weak (low 20's). Fe was well-used also. Now I do think you have to be *really* careful and not rely too much on this test, because a lot of it is more just what functions you're using right when you take the test...but it can provide a few general patterns, and I don't think I've ever seen it be TOO far off base (although I'm sure there are exceptions ;-).

    It's hard to say. But anyway, I do agree ISFP, or any Fi-dominant type, is not likely, due to Fi not being high at all.

    Alicia, I read your very first post. There are a few things in it, particularly in your younger years, that don't strike me as very INFJ-ish - specifically these points:
    *when I was younger I was more outgoing - possibly an E, now that I'm 40 I've mellowed.
    * as a kid I loved telling people what to do (was bossy). My mom claims that I was a bit like Angelica from Rugrats. I still like 'grabbing the bull by the horns' and taking over and doing things MY way., but it's certainly possible there were other factors back then that came into play.
    ** I'm great at giving advice - people tell me that I give the BEST advice on everything -relationships, careers, raising kids, etc. Because I'm good at it, I spend lots of time being an amateur psycologist to friends and family (which can be draining). I'm a great problem-solver.

    [note: I'm only including this one because I'm not sure of your method of advice-giving. For example, myself and the INFJ's I know are much more apt to just listen, but not necessarily give advice per se - we don't just go into advice-giving mode; it's much more subtle and often only when we're asked for input - most of the time we just provide a listening ear. As for me personally, it's extremely rare that I give specific advice. I might give a different perspective or just general input, but that's usually about it. But other INFJ's may differ.]


    Later you write:
    I'm not into abstractions, theories

    When I was younger (say a teen) I would have gotten involved and nagged her about his bad qualities, why she is too good for him and possibly tried to hook her up with someone better. Now that I'm older and have mostly concluded that nobody is perfect, and people need to WANT to change their situations THEMSELVES, I would let it go.

    ---------------

    Obviously just my opinion, but I think you're probably at a point in life now where you're really exploring a lot of other avenues and functions, and you're quite balanced...which is a very good thing!

    Does that make mbti a little less useful for you and what you're wanting out of it? Maybe.

    I know I'm not of much help here, I just wanted to pull in some stuff from earlier in this thread.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #112
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    The only thing I wonder about is that back on page 1 of this thread, when she took the cognitive function test, both Se and Si were well used (in the 30's), as was both Te and Ti, and both Ni and Ne were fairly weak (low 20's). Fe was well-used also. Now I do think you have to be *really* careful and not rely too much on this test, because a lot of it is more just what functions you're using right when you take the test...but it can provide a few general patterns, and I don't think I've ever seen it be TOO far off base (although I'm sure there are exceptions ;-).

    It's hard to say. But anyway, I do agree ISFP, or any Fi-dominant type, is not likely, due to Fi not being high at all.

    Alicia, I read your very first post. There are a few things in it, particularly in your younger years, that don't strike me as very INFJ-ish - specifically these points:
    *when I was younger I was more outgoing - possibly an E, now that I'm 40 I've mellowed.
    * as a kid I loved telling people what to do (was bossy). My mom claims that I was a bit like Angelica from Rugrats. I still like 'grabbing the bull by the horns' and taking over and doing things MY way., but it's certainly possible there were other factors back then that came into play.
    ** I'm great at giving advice - people tell me that I give the BEST advice on everything -relationships, careers, raising kids, etc. Because I'm good at it, I spend lots of time being an amateur psycologist to friends and family (which can be draining). I'm a great problem-solver.

    [note: I'm only including this one because I'm not sure of your method of advice-giving. For example, myself and the INFJ's I know are much more apt to just listen, but not necessarily give advice per se - we don't just go into advice-giving mode; it's much more subtle and often only when we're asked for input - most of the time we just provide a listening ear. As for me personally, it's extremely rare that I give specific advice. But other INFJ's may differ.]


    Later you write:
    I'm not into abstractions, theories

    When I was younger (say a teen) I would have gotten involved and nagged her about his bad qualities, why she is too good for him and possibly tried to hook her up with someone better. Now that I'm older and have mostly concluded that nobody is perfect, and people need to WANT to change their situations THEMSELVES, I would let it go.

    ---------------

    Obviously just my opinion, but I think you're probably at a point in life now where you're really exploring a lot of other avenues and functions, and you're quite balanced...which is a very good thing!

    Does that make mbti a little less useful for you and what you're wanting out of it? Maybe.

    I know I'm not of much help here, I just wanted to pull in some stuff from earlier in this thread.
    Ok. I gotta say this. the double and triple asterisk statements are not contradctions, they match perfectly well with directing communication. I'll say more about this in another thread in just a sec...

  3. #113
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    Ok. I gotta say this. the double and triple asterisk statements are not contradctions, they match perfectly well with directing communication. I'll say more about this in another thread in just a sec...
    I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to with this statement - but to be clear on my end, I don't think the bulleted comments contradict each other at all.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #114
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    The more I learn about MBTI the more I realize that just taking the quiz without a real deeper understanding of the functions will sometimes yield inaccurate results. Especially for someone like me who hates multiple-choice questions. I have a bad habit of not understanding what the question means because I can think of 5 different things it COULD mean. I have to remind myself to 'go with the most obvious.' And of course there is the whole thing of seeing ourselves accurately (obviously not my strong suit .

    No matter - I know that I'm borderline F versus T and I often end up having to use my T more in business. This morning I had a 4 hour marketing meeting and used T the whole time. I have to laugh though, I was actually advised to try to market myself in a more F manner because in my field that tends to appeal to the types who hire home designers. I've been purposely playing up the T in my marketing to appeal to the logic behind hiring a designer and the guy who spoke today convinced us that it's all about emotions.

  5. #115
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Alicia, I can relate to your problems with figuring out your type! Also, I want to apologize just in case..I hope you haven't taken any of my posts in a bad way. I'm just trying to integrate your entire life into this, rather than just looking at how you are NOW, after having matured and grown as a person.

    I definitely understand having issues with multiple choice tests. I also don't entirely trust my own perception of myself, so when I was first on this board I was often hesitant with my type, and seeking input, and even asked some people on the board directly whether they thought INFJ was accurate or not! So yeah..it can be frustrating.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #116
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    I feel that the first time I took the 8-functions test that I honestly wasn't interpreting the questions entirely correctly and also took it to mean how I function RIGHT NOW - and not necessarily over my entire life. BUt this is still an issue - I've gotten a lot of conflicting advice "do the tests based on how your function daily" (well to me that means NOW generally speaking) others tell me to "take the tests as if you were late teens or early 20's" still others say "take it based on what you think and not how you act" So which is it? I will get three different results based on the three different scenarios.

    I'm not into abstractions, theories
    I don't think I've ever said that I am into abstractions or theories. Well theories might not be true. I am interested in some theories just not abstract or philisopical ones. I like to read about religious theories (big fan of progressive Christian writing like Marcus Borg and John Shelby Spong), political theories, psychology (I'm here after all!). Right now I'm working on a presentation to give to a women's group on the Dynamics of Color (color theory). What I find boring and pointless is very abstract stuff like philosophy which most of the time doesn't seem to have a point and provides no results. When I took college level philosophy I kept thinking "hmm...and this is going to help me HOW??" I want to take action with what I've learned and apply it in some useful, purposeful way - often to help others (or at the very least- myself). This is what I mean by being practical.

    The I versus N thing. Looking back over my entire life, I am kind of quiet in a large group yet have no problems speaking my mind when it's appropriate to do so (but I won't rock the boat just for the sake of rocking it). But I would have no trouble telling a group of fundamentalists that I'm Pro-Choice. I have also mentioned that I need both quiet time to recharge AND time to recharge by being with people. I also have no trouble leading and am actually more comfortable leading than following in most cases (except when I don't care about something) yet I do it in a low-key kind of way. I'm not particulary energetic or larger-than life like some extroverts that I am around. I think I can take these tests all day long and go back and forth depending on the questions about certain things like I verus E but bottom line is my 'gut' says that I'm more I. I'm not VERY I - just more I. The cocooning that Lenore talks about is also very true for me.

    Also, I want to apologize just in case..I hope you haven't taken any of my posts in a bad way.
    Nope - not at all. I know everyone is just trying to help and I really appreciate all of it. Whether I'm an ISFP, INFJ, ES...?? it really doesn't matter, I don't really care what the label is........I just want it to fit. I havent' purposely tried to steer one way or another......it's just happening for a few reasons I've already mentioned.

    For example, myself and the INFJ's I know are much more apt to just listen, but not necessarily give advice per se - we don't just go into advice-giving mode; it's much more subtle and often only when we're asked for input - most of the time we just provide a listening ear. As for me personally, it's extremely rare that I give specific advice. But other INFJ's may differ
    Fascinating. Yes, I would say that when someone comes to me with a problem I will listen intentely and let them get it out. But then I feel complelled to FIX them or resolve their issue. Like Dr. Phil (but kinder, gentler and in a more caring way), but I would have no trouble saying 'but is doing things the way you've always done working for you?' I didn't speak to a family member for a month when she was going through a crisis because she would call me just to spill her guts and for the first 20 hours or so I just listened, but then I got sick of her just stagnating in this mess and I said 'you know I've listened to you for two weeks now, you are obviously very troubled, I love you and I want the best for you, but I'm not a professional......you need to seek counselling to you can move beyond this relationship.' I take people's problems very personally and couldn't sleep well while this was going on so I had to set a boundary. But people still call me and spill their guts so I guess I'm a good listener too.

    One thing I mentioned when I first came here and it's a major trait of mine (that I'd like to revisit if anyone has any new insight)is the whole issue of being very single-minded. What I mean is that I tend to have only one focus at at time. For example if I have a big project at work let's say it's 20 hours of work. I would feel compelled to work on it for 20 hours all together. Rather than work on it for 4 hours a day for 5 days. I might hardly get any sleep, I might barely take a shower, my mind will be consumed by this task until it comes to a logical ending point. I also go in these spurts with my interests - where all I can focus on is X for two weeks, then I lose X and go on to Y, X often comes back again (but not always). I think I missed a month of my life when I was 13 because I went to the library and got 10 books on The Beatles, stayed in my room the whole time reading and only came out for meals and bathroom breaks. Ok, I can hide it and work around it and I'm actually happier now that I'm allowing myself to have this work style. A doctor once told me that this was 'hyperfocusing' and asked me if I had any other symptoms of ADD but I don't. But this could just be a weird personal quirk and have nothing to do with MBTI. I've asked my husband "do you think I have time managment problems?" and he says "you are an enigma" - on the one hand stuff gets done when you are in that MOOD, but then it might be 6 months before you are in that MOOD again! But you are productive every day in some capacity."

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    After reading more on this site, I'm starting to doubt my type. Or perhaps I'm just not the 'stereotype' of an ISTJ. A few things about me:

    * when I was younger I was more outgoing - possibly an E, now that I'm 40 I've mellowed.
    * as a kid I loved telling people what to do (was bossy). My mom claims that I was a bit like Angelica from Rugrats. I still like 'grabbing the bull by the horns' and taking over and doing things MY way. I have to be a leader if it's something that I care about, if I don't care, then I am fine in the background.
    * I'm great at giving advice - people tell me that I give the BEST advice on everything -relationships, careers, raising kids, etc. Because I'm good at it, I spend lots of time being an amateur psycologist to friends and family (which can be draining). I'm a great problem-solver.
    * I challenge authority if necessary. I've written to the schools that my kids go to about a couple of ridiculous policies (illness is no longer an excused absence!) and in one case got the policy changed. I have no problem 'speaking out' (but I'm always very polite and logical/rational).
    * I'm very concerned about my personal 'productivity.' At the end of the day I want to be able to say 'this is what I've accomplished' even if it's just boring household stuff. I don't think that I'm naturally productive, it's something that I'm always trying to improve.
    * I am a perfectionist about a lot of things but unfortunately, I'm often disappointed in myself, since things often don't turn out the way I'd hoped. On magazine quiz, it said that my personality was "Frusterated Perfectionist" and that's me to a T.
    * Organized versus disorganized? hard to say. I used to be completely disorganized, but I've learned that to be productive I must stay organized. So I'm constantly working on it. In some areas of my life I'm super-organized, in other's - not at all (and that really bothers me).
    * planned or unplanned? Both. I love to plan detailed itineries for vacations and such but when I get there if something that I didn't plan on seems more fun, I'll chuck the plan. But I am known as the Disney World Commando by my family.
    * In my day-to-day work, I make elaborate plans but rarely stick to them and feel guilty about it. Right now I'm supposed to be working-out but I'm on the computer!
    * I think I'm a Chart-the Course type.
    * I'm creative, but not in a poetry or writing or abstact kind of way. I design decks, gardens, interiors. My visual/spatial skills are my biggest talent. Not at all good with mechanical things or tools.
    * easy going on the outside, not so much on the inside (if I care about something), if I don't care then I don't get worked up about it.
    * extremely even tempered on the outside, even if I'm giving someone a piece of my mind.
    * medium in terms of patience
    * former teenaged/early 20's party-animal, but I'm currently on the board at my church - hee, hee
    * not sure if this plays into MBTI theory or not, but from my research (yes, I love to research, should have been a librarian!) I've learned that children of alcoholics often have that 'need to establish control' which I obviously have (not sure if it's natural to me though, or just a learned habit).



    Any thoughts?
    You sound exactly like my sister. She's an ENTJ. I suspect that you are not sense-dominated because the difference between her and myself is that I am very good with mechanical tools and can fix anything if given the opportunity. Also I am more organized and neater than her- as most S-people tend to be while she is better at reading people and understanding their motivations.

    From my understanding, women are generally taught to be more reserved and not as outspoken- so that it might not be until their personalities fully mature that their real "instincts" kick in and they revert back to how they were naturally as children.

    I think there are a lot of similarities though between ESFJ women and ENTJ women- and someone on this site had mentioned this before- but the thinking styles between ESTJs, ENTJs, ESFJs are parallel to one another. Although in my observations, the main difference between ENTJs/ESFJs is how they are perceived. Usually ESFJ women strike people as being wild, untamed, life-of-the party types while ENTJ women at first glance seem reserved and quietly assessing everyone in the room before making a move.

    It could be that maybe you're an ESFJ not an ISFJ.

  8. #118
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    Thank you for your input hotmale.

    I have never entertained the thought of ENTJ, does that match up with my function preferences I wonder? Based on what I read on Lenore's sight, I'm fairly sure about those (at least according to her theories). It would be funny if I was an ENTJ because that's the same type as my husband. He's very talkative, almost in an imposing sort of way, tells really dumb jokes, and is quite insensitive and clueless about nuturing relationships. He's got lots of good qualties but jeez, I just can't see myself as his type.

    It could be that maybe you're an ESFJ not an ISFJ.
    If ESFJ is a "life of the party" type then that's not a possibility! I'm friendly and love people but I'm reserved on the outside.

    I wanted to add something to what I posted about last night and who knows if it's significant or not. But when it comes to dealing with people, I can and will get 'direct' with people if I have to - I have no fear of doing that IF they came to me with problems in the first place. However, I usually don't do that right away, what I do is ask people leading questions with the goal of getting them to clarify and solve their own issues.

    On a practical note - I have an important consultation this afternoon and I really want to sell this woman more services than I'm hired for today. Today it's a two hour color consultation, but she really needs a lot more to make her house wonderful. I'm whatever MBTI type has trouble with upselling.

  9. #119
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    Or perhaps I'm just not the 'stereotype' of an ISTJ.
    The thing you've got to be careful of is typing yourself as a type you're not (regardless of whether or not you 'want to be' that type). I think I've been doing this with ESTJ; I've essentially been thinking that I could be an ESTJ, and because many aspects of the type don't fit me, I think to myself "it must just be because I'm an atypical ESTJ", when I should be thinking "perhaps I'm not actually an ESTJ".

  10. #120
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    I know what you mean Ezra. But what are you to do when none of them are good fits? I suppose it's because when when you are not extreme in any of the functions, then you perform as the opposite type a certain percentage of the time. If you are say 60/40 P versus J than 40% of the time you act J-like - and that's very significant! When you read about the type they will generally describe you as P all the time and not your individual mix, so......

    Personally, I am torn between wanting a 'box' and thinking that being in a 'box' is too limiting. For now, though I'd like to find my box, what I do with it...time will tell.

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