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  1. #141
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Do you talk like that in real life? Must be tough keeping it up all day.
    BUT LOOK AT THE CUTE KITTY!!!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #142
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Ths is very nice. But since the Enlightenment we have known that we are all subject to self deception and illusion. That is why we do double blind experiments - so that we will avoid self deception and illusion.

    And the problem is that MBTI plays on our self deception and illusion.

    So MBTI is a popular confidence trick like astrology.
    The very point of the test and the conceptual framework around it is to help show us and advertise our biases. When I say "I am ISFP" I'm really saying "I have a conscious bias towards ISFP".

    I may have consciously deluded and deceived myself and therefore I actually unconsciously prefer ENTJ but MBTI doesn't claim to test our unconscious preferences.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  3. #143
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    According to Wikipedia, the Enlightenment developed more or less simultaneously in Germany, France, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Italy, Spain, and Portugal.

    That's damn suspicious right there.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #144
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Reasonable, peaceful and aristocratic

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    According to Wikipedia, the Enlightenment developed more or less simultaneously in Germany, France, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Italy, Spain, and Portugal.

    That's damn suspicious right there.
    Yes, The Enlightenment (1688-1788) was the Age of Reason.

    And is most interesting from Australia's point of view. For one hundred years of The Enlightenment preceded the 1788 settlement of Australia.

    And the Enlightenment was one hundred years of peace under the Aristocratic Ascendency.

    And so Australia was imbued with all the values of Reason, Peace and Aristocracy.

    These values have characterised us for 222 years and characterise us today.

    So you can say our character, and you might say my character, is reasonable, peaceful and aristocratic.

  5. #145
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Thumbs down MBTI is Pre-Enlightenment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    According to Wikipedia, the Enlightenment developed more or less simultaneously in Germany, France, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Italy, Spain, and Portugal.

    That's damn suspicious right there.
    The problem is that MBTI took us back prior to The Enlightenment.

    In other words, MBTI thinking is pre-Enlightenment thinking.

    This is understandable for MBTI is a USA cult and the USA was founded pre-Enlightenment. And so the USA contains a very strong strand of pre-Enlightenment thinking.

    Also Carl Jung himself was a pre-Enlightenment thinker whose book on which MBTI is based contains no empirical evidence nor is subject to reason.

    And we only have to look at this site to see that MBTI is resolutely resistant to reason and evidence.

    David Hume, a Scotsman of The Enlightenment, would have a field day with MBTI.

    So when we use MBTI, we go back in time to a time of belief, to a time of superstition, where reason was regarded with suspicion.

  6. #146
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We are pattern seeking animals. And we prefer any pattern to no pattern. And for this reason we are subject to self deception and illusion. And this is why we test patterns we perceive against evidence and reason.

    And this is what we learnt in the Enlightenment - to test patterns we perceive against evidence and reason. For instance, this is how we discovered the Earth goes round the Sun, and that our perception that the Sun goes round the Earth is an illusion.

    And when we test MBTI against evidence and reason we find MBTI is based on self deception and illusion.
    Ah, yes, MBTI tells us we are exactly one thing because it captures a pattern rising out of our self-deceived preferences. This is counter to evidence and reason.

    So, I agree, we must uphold evidence and reason.

    I shall not fall victim to grouping according to pattern, but, seek to validate a claim using evidence and reason.

    My first attempt:

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, The Enlightenment (1688-1788) was the Age of Reason.

    And is most interesting from Australia's point of view. For The Enlightenment preceded the settlement of Australia in 1788.

    And the Enlightenment was one hundred years of peace under the Aristocratic Ascendency.

    And so Australia was imbued with all the values of Reason, Peace and Aristocracy.

    These values have characterised us for 212 years and characterise us today.

    So you can say our character, and you might say my character, is reasonable, peaceful and aristocratic.
    Or.....I might not, you know, say that your character is reasonable, peaceful and aristrocratic, just because Australia as a whole has been characterized with values of Reason, Peace and Aristocracy.

    I do not want to fall victim to ascribing a general pattern to an individual, barring the blatant evidence and reason that tells me this is a self-delusional stance.

    So, Victor, I might not, and do not say such things about your character being reasonable, peaceful and aristocratic, just because you are Australian.

    Afterall,
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I would prefer you related to me as a person than a type.

  7. #147
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Ah, yes, MBTI tells us we are exactly one thing because it captures a pattern rising out of our self-deceived preferences. This is counter to evidence and reason.

    So, I agree, we must uphold evidence and reason.

    I shall not fall victim to grouping according to pattern, but, seek to validate a claim using evidence and reason.

    My first attempt:

    Or.....I might not, you know, say that your character is reasonable, peaceful and aristrocratic, just because Australia as a whole has been characterized with values of Reason, Peace and Aristocracy.

    I do not want to fall victim to ascribing a general pattern to an individual, barring the blatant evidence and reason that tells me this is a self-delusional stance.

    So, Victor, I might, and do not say such things about your character, just because you are Australain.

    Afterall,
    Of course you may well be right Q.

    For after 4,000 posts surely you are good judge of my character.

    So perhaps I should follow your lead and say I aspire to the Australian values of reason, peace and aristocracy.

    And leave it to you to judge how well I embody them.

  8. #148
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, The Enlightenment (1688-1788) was the Age of Reason.
    Call an Age of Reason a spade, a European cult is what it was. Freemasons, every last one of them.

    And is most interesting from Australia's point of view. For one hundred years of The Enlightenment preceded the 1788 settlement of Australia.

    And the Enlightenment was one hundred years of peace under the Aristocratic Ascendency.

    And so Australia was imbued with all the values of Reason, Peace and Aristocracy.
    Man, nothing will ever be sacred again.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #149
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Man, nothing will ever be sacred again.
    And that was the point of The Enlightenment.

  10. #150
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And that was the point of The Enlightenment.
    And, so died the mystic as it killed enlightenment.

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