Analyze Victor/split from Forum's Scariest Members

[simulatedworld]

you know, i don't disagree with you (said IxFP) and i'm not taking any sides here (yet), but what was described was not Ni

Q said:

Victor's got Ne out the whoo-ha. That's not Ni you see. Every thought is connected to another (seemingly random) thought and so it goes, until you come full circle to the original thought. When Ne is more matured, there's an elegance to it, that's poetic.

That's true of both N functions.

Point is, his strings of thought, they're not very in-to-out, it's out-going-in-in-in-oh-so-in "deep" and expansive.

IA, about the Fi.

He's an INFP (who hates Te).

Bolded part is much more Ni than Ne. Ne doesn't go deep; it goes wide. It connects a lot of unrelated contexts in the same level of depth by noting abstract conceptual similarities between different systems. (Interestingly, "expansive" is more applicable to Ne, but "deep" is not. Ni is extensive, not expansive--Q seems to have included elements of both Ne and Ni and generalized all of them together as Ne.)

Ni goes all the way to the bottom of one system to fully understand all of its implications and remove itself from any unconscious perceptual bias in interpreting the meaning of that system, but doesn't make the "horizontal" inter-systemic connections that Ne is capable of.

Statements like, "You know, x is a lot like y in that the relationships between their parts operate similarly" are Ne. Horizontal connections between the same level of depth across different systems. Extroverted functions are by nature more superficial.

Statements like, "You know, x is really just a shallow attempt to deceive me, but there are a lot of different things I might be missing before I step back and view the system independently of its built-in interpretations" are Ni. Vertical connections down to the deepest levels of personalized interpretations of meaning.

Just because Victor uses abstract language to illustrate his points doesn't mean he's using Ne. Except when his Fi takes over and makes unsubstantiated moral pronouncements, he's always seeking to show how everything is all in how you look at it, which is classic Ni.

What about when reality contradicts the system? Someone might exhibit Fi, Se, and Ni. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they have to exhibit Te over Ti. Function use doesn't always line up according to the limited combinations.

Whatever it is you're interpreting as Ti is probably a combination of other functions/inadequacies in your functional analysis. Fi and Ti cannot simultaneously influence one's value system because they directly contradict each other regarding the source of introverted judgments.

 

[highlander]

Your argument is predicated on the assumption that xSxx types can't use their N function more often than their S function.

But they can. They do when the tertiary is emphasized over the auxiliary. "ISFP" doesn't necessitate that he uses his S function more than his N function; it just indicates an Fi+Se+Ni+Te functional grouping. The order of priority is up to the individual, though--some people have learned to develop the tertiary above the auxiliary.

INTJ makes more sense than INFP.

INFP doesn't work because he doesn't use Ne or Si. His posts are ridiculously Ni.

I know this is getting off topic but the discussion here is interesting. Getting away from referring to a particular person, how often do you think this happens - where tertiary is emphasized over the auxiliary, or auxiliary is emphasized over dominant (if that's possible)? What are its effects?

When I was younger, I don't think I perceived the value of introverted intuition at all. The outer world taught me that thinking and sensing were more important or at least socially acceptable, and I think it drove me into acting in a way that did not align with my type (more ISTJish). It wasn't until I took the MBTI assessment and begun to understand myself a bit more that my career, relationships with others, etc. began to take off.

 

[Qre:us]

I love you, honey, but this is weak analysis. If Victor were brimming with Ne the way you say he is, he wouldn't be a self-described extreme introvert with no idea how to handle the external world.

You don't know how he's like IRL, there has been many posts of his and the random 'friends' he makes (mole, badger, blah blah), sitting in coffee shops, or going to random things....

Secondly, extreme introvert with no idea how to handle the external world, does not rule out INxPs.

He's like the extreme INFPs I know, my mom is like this somewhat, but her dad, my grandpa, was the quintessential INFP extreme. The material world was irrelevant to him. He lived and breathed in abstraction. The real world was a channel he hardly tuned in to...unless forced to by my grandma. The real world served the purpose as far as to be a trigger for the greater unknown, the gaps. That's it. He'd check out and the rest would be a dance in abstract associations. Near the end of his life, he gave up his material comfort and became a wanderer.

Ne is not as mundane as most manifestations of it that we see. It can go quite 'deep' like Ni. How does it go deep?

In-to-out (Ni), out-to-in (Ne).

In search of what makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts, to understand the whole beyond its parts. Ni.

In search of the whole from the sum of its parts, to unify as one. Ne.

Both can go deep.

Victor's thoughts are mostly the latter.

Also, he can very well use Ni too (and prolly does), but mostly, it's an Ne-scream.

PS - keep in mind, everyone, that the Victor we see is a persona. A glimpse of the person as he wants to present himself, not Victor himself.

 

[ajblaise]

Whatever it is you're interpreting as Ti is probably a combination of other functions/inadequacies in your functional analysis.. Fi and Ti cannot simultaneously influence one's value system because they directly contradict each other regarding the source of introverted judgments.

Personality contradicts. And it's not as if the person would be using Fi and Ti equally, or that there would be a constant struggle. Fi would clearly have reign, but not all the time.

Also, some people are extremely introverted or extroverted. An incredibly introverted person might not really use any extroverted functions over their introverted alternative, or just use more Xi than Xe functions.

 

[Requeim]

You don't know how he's like IRL, there has been many posts of his and the random 'friends' he makes (mole, badger, blah blah), sitting in coffee shops, or going to random things....

Secondly, extreme introvert with no idea how to handle the external world, does not rule out INxPs.

He's like the extreme INFPs I know, my mom is like this somewhat, but her dad, my grandpa, was the quintessential INFP extreme. The material world was irrelevant to him. He lived and breathed in abstraction. The real world was a channel he hardly tuned in to...unless forced to by my grandma. The real world served the purpose as far as to be a trigger for the greater unknown, the gaps. That's it. He'd check out and the rest would be a dance in abstract associations. Near the end of his life, he gave up his material comfort and became a wanderer.

Ne is not as mundane as most manifestations of it that we see. It can go quite 'deep' like Ni. How does it go deep?

In-to-out (Ni), out-to-in (Ne).

In search of what makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts, to understand the whole beyond its parts. Ni.

In search of the whole from the sum of its parts, to unify as one. Ne.

Both can go deep.

Victor's thoughts are mostly the latter.

Also, he can very well use Ni too (and prolly does), but mostly, it's an Ne-scream.

PS - keep in mind, everyone, that the Victor we see is a persona. A glimpse of the person as he wants to present himself, not Victor himself.

great post

 

[Mole]

keep in mind, everyone, that the Victor we see is a persona. A glimpse of the person as he wants to present himself, not Victor himself.

When I joined, I gave my real name, "Victor", and below my real name I put a current picture of myself.

I also gave my real address and invited everyone to speak to me on Skype.

And then, as is my wont, I railed against anonymous avatars.

So of course I want to present myself.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

Victor, are you ISFP?
I think that would be quite interesting actually.

 

[Qre:us]

When I joined, I gave my real name, "Victor", and below my real name I put a current picture of myself.

I also gave my real address and invited everyone to speak to me on Skype.

And then, as is my wont, I railed against anonymous avatars.

So of course I want to present myself.

If only tangibles of our identity speaks to who we really are.

We could all be summed up with barcodes.

 

[Mole]

Victor, are you ISFP?
I think that would be quite interesting actually.

I must admit I was wondering myself. If I understand it correctly, S would give me an artistic side and I idealize creativity and art but secretly fear I am not creative.

And if I understand it, N would make me intuitive. And I guess I am not too sure what intuitive means in this context for I use intuitive and counter-intuitive in another context altogether.

All I can say is that I am probably not T or J.

And even I is in a little doubt as I am histrionic.

However in talking about this I have learnt a little more about MBTI.

But it all remains a bit of a mystery to me.

 

[Mole]

If only tangibles of our identity speaks to who we really are.

We could all be summed up with barcodes.

This is so true it goes without saying. So as well as giving my tangible identity which can be confirmed on the electoral role or on the telephone to me and my friends, I have seriously and determinedly tried to share my inner self.

But the truth is that almost everyone here is anonymous. So I find myself a real person surrounded by anonymity.

This has created considerable friction and even opposition. But I have weathered the storm and here I am, the real Victor talking to you in real time.

Why is this so scary?

 

[Spamtar]

Why is this so scary?

Take it as a complement Vic. They turn to you in times of fear.

 

[Qre:us]

This is so true it goes without saying. So as well as giving my tangible identity which can be confirmed on the electoral role or on the telephone to me and my friends, I have seriously and determinedly tried to share my inner self.

When one is determined to do something, be someone, even if it is their real inner self; the determination overshadows the determined.

I see your determination clearly, not as much your determined self.

No resolution to be. Just be.

But the truth is that almost everyone here is anonymous. So I find myself a real person surrounded by anonymity.

You are no more real than I am. I am no more anonymous than you are.

With one click, we end our connection. Either from your end, or from mine.

We're equals in this regard.

This has created considerable friction and even opposition. But I have weathered the storm and here I am, the real Victor talking to you in real time.

Why is this so scary?

Does the real Victor ascribe fear to others when they don't understand how he wants them to understand? Is it my fear or yours?

 

[prplchknz]

fuck you all.

 

[Laurie]

When one is determined to do something, be someone, even if it is their real inner self; the determination overshadows the determined. <snip>

It's interesting that you respond back to him in the same way that he posts.

 

[ajblaise]

It's interesting that you respond back to him in the same way that he posts.

He only really plays on his turf.

 

[Qre:us]

It's interesting that you respond back to him in the same way that he posts.

You caught that.......yup!
I mentioned it earlier in the thread, mimicking him

Actually, this has been one of the few times, I've seen Victor respond to me 'out of character' (well, almost). It's quite refreshing. In the past, I've even repped him the other few times he's done this also...telling him how refreshing I found it.

I want to respond back like he usually does, to show the superficial veneer his style seems to carry (and the implied pretentiousness). Even if his words themselves, can have depth.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to detach from the self and just present thoughts (e.g., through a persona). But, Victor wants to be real, not just his thoughts. Therein lies the contradiction of what he presents and wants to present.

He only really plays on his turf.

And that.

 

[Timeless]

fuck you all.

I vote you the friendliest person on Earth.

 

[prplchknz]

I don't understand why the fuck it's a type victor thread.

 

[Qre:us]

I don't understand why the fuck it's a type victor thread.

IMO, it's way more interesting than a 'scariest member' thread, which is another of the many popularity contests threads infiltrating The Bonfire. Sometimes, it's fun, other times, fluff.

At least with this, we pick ONE popular member, and dissect him to pieces.

 

[Timeless]

Who's next?