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Analyze Victor/split from Forum's Scariest Members

Mole

Permabanned
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Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
You are no more real than I am. I am no more anonymous than you are.

My name is Victor Reginald Shortus. I live at 1/22 Oxley Street, Griffith. ACT.2603. Look me up on Google Earth and you will be able to look right in my front door at street level.

My telephone number is 0011 61 2 6232 6294. You can call me right now.

Or you can type my name shortus into Skype and talk to me and see me on camera.

Or of course there is always Google Talk.

So who are you? Or do you prefer to hide behind your pseudonym Qre:us and criticize me from the safety of your anonymity?
 

Qre:us

New member
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Nov 21, 2008
Messages
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My name is Victor Reginald Shortus. I live at 1/22 Oxley Street, Griffith. ACT.2603. Look me up on Google Earth and you will be able to look right in my front door at street level.

My telephone number is 0011 61 2 6232 6294. You can call me right now.

Or you can type my name shortus into Skype and talk to me and see me on camera.

Or of course there is always Google Talk.

So who are you?

I won't tell you. But, balls to you for doing so.

Or do you prefer to hide behind your pseudonym Qre:us and criticize me from the safety of your anonymity?

This.

Because if I reveal my name, I will no longer be anonymous, given the world wide web.

Googling you, Mr. Victor Reginald Shortus, you still retain your anonymity.

Thus, you have control. I do not. In this, we are not equal. Alas. :)
 

Mole

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I want to respond back like he usually does, to show the superficial veneer his style seems to carry (and the implied pretentiousness).

Our problem is cultural difference. In your culture you make the distinction between sincere and phoney, while for exactly the same behaviours we make the distinction between amusing and boring.

And naturally you judge me by your own cultural distinctions and find me insincere. And you use words like 'superficial' and 'pretentious'.

If I were to make the same mistake, I would be calling you 'boring'. But I don't because I always take into account your cultural distinctions. It would only be polite for you to reply in kind.
 

Mole

Permabanned
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Messages
20,284
I won't tell you. But, balls to you for doing so.

This.

Because if I reveal my name, I will no longer be anonymous, given the world wide web.

Googling you, Mr. Victor Reginald Shortus, you still retain your anonymity.

Thus, you have control. I do not. In this, we are not equal. Alas. :)

In my vernacular, you are not fair dinkum.

And you will not stand behind your criticisms, and so you invalidate yourself.

Your very anonymity invalidates whatever you say.

I can't respect that.
 

Qre:us

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Our problem is cultural difference. In your culture you make the distinction between sincere and phoney, while for exactly the same behaviours we make the distinction between amusing and boring.

Nah, it's not just 2 choices, each. Regardless of our cultures.

The choices:

Sincere can be boring.
Sincere can be amusing.

Phoney can be amusing.
Phoney can be boring.

You're the bolded.

And naturally you judge me by your own cultural distinctions and find me insincere. And you use words like 'superficial' and 'pretentious'.

If I were to make the same mistake, I would be calling you 'boring'. But I don't because I always take into account your cultural distinctions. It would only be polite for you to reply in kind.

Reply to me in kind, which of the 4 choices am I? (my guess for your guess, the italics) :)

In my vernacular, you are not fair dinkum.

And you will not stand behind your criticisms, and so you invalidate yourself.

Your very anonymity invalidates whatever you say.

I can't respect that.

Crossing out the word 'criticism' was me trying to take out your emotional response to me. That's probably not fair to you, invalidating the emotions behind your words. Sorry.

As for my anoymity invalidating what I say.........

As I said from the start of our conversation, my tangible indentification(s) doesn't really explain who I am. Whether you respect that or not, doesn't matter, as who I am, and how I see the world, I present with honesty.
I just don't feel that tangibles of my self is all that important to anyone understanding who I am. In fact, it will limit how openly I share my views on TypeC as I am then bound to my tangible identity (consequences to my professional identity, which I'm rationally guarding).

You don't have the same consequences (confirmed by a google search of you). And, you somehow believe that the tangibles of your identity makes you more real on this forum. I can respect that difference in outlook.
Can you respect mine?
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
Nah, it's not just 2 choices, each. Regardless of our cultures.

The choices:

Sincere can be boring.
Sincere can be amusing.

Phoney can be amusing.
Phoney can be boring.

You're the bolded.

Reply to me in kind, which of the 4 choices am I? (my guess for your guess, the italics) :)

I think you are having yourself on. You don't understand distinctions or cultural difference. Yet here you are holding forth on an international forum.

It reminds me of your State Department that started a war in the Middle East and no one could speak Arabic.

Blackmail, our friend from Paris, calls it cultural imperialism. But really it is the perfect insult.

And you wonder why we look at you askance.
 

Spamtar

Ghost Monkey Soul
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
4,468
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INTP
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5w4
I don't understand why the fuck it's a type victor thread.

IMO, it's way more interesting than a 'scariest member' thread, which is another of the many popularity contests threads infiltrating The Bonfire. Sometimes, it's fun, other times, :sleeping: fluff.

At least with this, we pick ONE popular member, and dissect him to pieces. :devil:

I understand how some may wish to talk on one subject more than another subject but in all fairness this thread should be split.

Victor is not scary he is just...for lack of a better word...unique.

The fact he is brought up here is contrived and unfair to the original OP as well as Victor. Interesting analysis but its a derail and really deserves its own thread.

PS. Note my earlier post essentially foretelling this was going to happen.:jew:

PPS. Qre: us when you go on the warpath its kinda distracting seeing your avi as a bunnyrabbit…kinda takes away from the prosecutions case.
 

Halla74

Artisan Conquerer
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Jan 20, 2009
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ESTP
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I understand how some may wish to talk on one subject more than another subject but in all fairness this thread should be split.

Anyone else?

PPS. Qre: us when you go on the warpath its kinda distracting seeing your avi as a bunnyrabbit…kinda takes away from the prosecutions case.

Ummm...I kinda like the bunny rabbit avi...not that I'm biased or anything. :whistling:
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
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You don't know how he's like IRL, there has been many posts of his and the random 'friends' he makes (mole, badger, blah blah), sitting in coffee shops, or going to random things....

I'm only referring to the persona we see on the forum.

Secondly, extreme introvert with no idea how to handle the external world, does not rule out INxPs.

No, but it does rule out strong extroverted functions like Ne or Se. I think extreme introverts tend to lead with two introverted functions.

He's like the extreme INFPs I know, my mom is like this somewhat, but her dad, my grandpa, was the quintessential INFP extreme. The material world was irrelevant to him. He lived and breathed in abstraction. The real world was a channel he hardly tuned in to...unless forced to by my grandma. The real world served the purpose as far as to be a trigger for the greater unknown, the gaps. That's it. He'd check out and the rest would be a dance in abstract associations. Near the end of his life, he gave up his material comfort and became a wanderer.

Okay.

Ne is not as mundane as most manifestations of it that we see. It can go quite 'deep' like Ni. How does it go deep?

In-to-out (Ni), out-to-in (Ne).

In search of what makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts, to understand the whole beyond its parts. Ni.

In search of the whole from the sum of its parts, to unify as one. Ne.

Both can go deep.

Victor's thoughts are mostly the latter.

Also, he can very well use Ni too (and prolly does), but mostly, it's an Ne-scream.

PS - keep in mind, everyone, that the Victor we see is a persona. A glimpse of the person as he wants to present himself, not Victor himself.

I don't really agree with your functional definitions, so I'll kindly retire from this discussion.
 

Qre:us

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Nov 21, 2008
Messages
4,890
I think you are having yourself on. You don't understand distinctions or cultural difference. Yet here you are holding forth on an international forum.

It reminds me of your State Department that started a war in the Middle East and no one could speak Arabic.

Blackmail, our friend from Paris, calls it cultural imperialism. But really it is the perfect insult.

Colonial elitism.....

Ah, and Blackmail!, another king of pretension.

I am a savage, you shall enlighten me....

And you wonder why we look at you askance.

And, so, I wonder no more.

PS - Mr. Aussie, I'm Canadian.
 

Mole

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Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
As for my anoymity invalidating what I say.........

As I said from the start of our conversation, my tangible indentification(s) doesn't really explain who I am. Whether you respect that or not, doesn't matter, as who I am, and how I see the world, I present with honesty.
I just don't feel that tangibles of my self is all that important to anyone understanding who I am. In fact, it will limit how openly I share my views on TypeC as I am then bound to my tangible identity (consequences to my professional identity, which I'm rationally guarding).

You don't have the same consequences (confirmed by a google search of you). And, you somehow believe that the tangibles of your identity makes you more real on this forum. I can respect that difference in outlook.
Can you respect mine?

No.
 

simulatedworld

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I know this is getting off topic but the discussion here is interesting. Getting away from referring to a particular person, how often do you think this happens - where tertiary is emphasized over the auxiliary, or auxiliary is emphasized over dominant (if that's possible)? What are its effects?

I think it happens a lot. If another function is emphasized above the dominant, you become a different type.

The effect of leading with two introverted functions typically results in overdependence upon internal values and becoming totally out of touch with the external world. This happens when an I type has a poor secondary E function. (See Victor, Fi+Ni.)

The effect of leading with two extroverted functions typically results in overdependence upon external validation and no sense of internal self and what's subjectively important. This happens when an E type has a poor secondary I function. (See Little Linguist, Te+Ne ESTJ or Ne+Te ENFP, depending on whose interpretation you believe.) Note that when the auxiliary function is dropped, the dominant+tertiary mirror the dominant+tertiary from the type that shares only your first letter, except inverted.

For another example, ENTPs with poor auxiliary Ti come off as Ne+Fe, which most often looks like Narcissistic Personality Disorder. With no sense of self by which to orient internally, they become totally dependent upon external validation from others and rather resemble childish ESFJs. (The ESFJ with poor auxiliary Si would look like Fe+Ne, and have a similar problem.)

When I was younger, I don't think I perceived the value of introverted intuition at all. The outer world taught me that thinking and sensing were more important or at least socially acceptable, and I think it drove me into acting in a way that did not align with my type (more ISTJish). It wasn't until I took the MBTI assessment and begun to understand myself a bit more that my career, relationships with others, etc. began to take off.

Many people are so immersed in the influence of the dominant function that they don't even recognize how heavily it affects their perspectives. I think of the dominant as a pair of contact lenses that you don't know you're wearing, and the auxiliary as your favorite pair of glasses to consciously look through. As you get older you'll learn to look through the tertiary glasses sometimes too, and occasionally even the inferior (but this pair is dusty and hard to see through, and rarely gets picked up anyway.)

Whenever I explain Ni to INTJs, for instance, their first reaction is invariably Te-oriented disbelief. They don't understand that the abilities and perspectives that result from Ni are anything special or out of the ordinary, because the dominant function's values and ideas are so incredibly obvious to them. Often the response from any type upon hearing a description of his dominant function is: "Well of course I see things that way; that's just common sense. Doesn't everyone?"

The dominant is just seen as the default perspective--how could anyone not see things that way? We are conscious of the coloration placed on our perspective when we use the auxiliary and tertiary functions, but the dominant is so ingrained into our perspectives that it's hard to even realize it's coloring what we see.

I suspect that, if you are indeed an INTJ, Ni has always heavily influenced your perspectives, but you'd never realized what it was or consciously noticed its effects before studying typology.
 

Cloudblue

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Am sorry,but by reading the posts,I think this thread has de-railed...
 

Timeless

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Looks like somebody clicked this button:

Spell_Holy_Resurrection.png
 

highlander

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I think it happens a lot. If another function is emphasized above the dominant, you become a different type.

The effect of leading with two introverted functions typically results in overdependence upon internal values and becoming totally out of touch with the external world. This happens when an I type has a poor secondary E function. (See Victor, Fi+Ni.)

The effect of leading with two extroverted functions typically results in overdependence upon external validation and no sense of internal self and what's subjectively important. This happens when an E type has a poor secondary I function. (See Little Linguist, Te+Ne ESTJ or Ne+Te ENFP, depending on whose interpretation you believe.) Note that when the auxiliary function is dropped, the dominant+tertiary mirror the dominant+tertiary from the type that shares only your first letter, except inverted.

For another example, ENTPs with poor auxiliary Ti come off as Ne+Fe, which most often looks like Narcissistic Personality Disorder. With no sense of self by which to orient internally, they become totally dependent upon external validation from others and rather resemble childish ESFJs. (The ESFJ with poor auxiliary Si would look like Fe+Ne, and have a similar problem.)



Many people are so immersed in the influence of the dominant function that they don't even recognize how heavily it affects their perspectives. I think of the dominant as a pair of contact lenses that you don't know you're wearing, and the auxiliary as your favorite pair of glasses to consciously look through. As you get older you'll learn to look through the tertiary glasses sometimes too, and occasionally even the inferior (but this pair is dusty and hard to see through, and rarely gets picked up anyway.)

Whenever I explain Ni to INTJs, for instance, their first reaction is invariably Te-oriented disbelief. They don't understand that the abilities and perspectives that result from Ni are anything special or out of the ordinary, because the dominant function's values and ideas are so incredibly obvious to them. Often the response from any type upon hearing a description of his dominant function is: "Well of course I see things that way; that's just common sense. Doesn't everyone?"

The dominant is just seen as the default perspective--how could anyone not see things that way? We are conscious of the coloration placed on our perspective when we use the auxiliary and tertiary functions, but the dominant is so ingrained into our perspectives that it's hard to even realize it's coloring what we see.

I suspect that, if you are indeed an INTJ, Ni has always heavily influenced your perspectives, but you'd never realized what it was or consciously noticed its effects before studying typology.

Thank you. Your comments are most enlightening and give me some things to think about. I've read a lot of books on this stuff but never Jung and seem to be missing some depth of perspective here. Let me know if you have any other suggestions besides that.

I am indeed an INTJ. That much I know for certain.
 

simulatedworld

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Thank you. Your comments are most enlightening and give me some things to think about. I've read a lot of books on this stuff but never Jung and seem to be missing some depth of perspective here. Let me know if you have any other suggestions besides that.

I am indeed an INTJ. That much I know for certain.

Read Lenore Thomson's Personality Type: An Owner's Manual.

If you don't want to buy it, there's a site with some pretty good info on it and some excerpts here:

The Lenore Thomson Exegesis Wiki
 

Requeim

New member
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Apr 15, 2009
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INFJ
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i'll just say this once more: The cringe is strong with victor's posts
 
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