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  1. #211
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    You know, it is starting to occur to me that not relating to me as a person, but typing me, is an insult.

    If that is true, then typing anyone, rather than relating directly to them as a person, is also an insult.

    And if this is true, it is quite extraordinary as it means MBTI is inherently insulting to a person.
    So you think the individual needs to relate something to themselves for them to truly understand it?

    Hmmmm....that sounds so Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Jung contrasting Ni with Ji
    Consequently, in the above-mentioned example, the introverted intuitive, when affected by the giddiness, would not imagine that the perceived image might also in some way refer to himself. Naturally, to one who is rationally orientated, such a thing seems almost unthinkable, but it is none the less a fact, and I have often experienced it in my dealings with this type.
    I think people try to depersonalize a person to type them sometimes, because they strive to see them objectively. I can see how that can be offensive, and inaccurate, because you cannot depersonalize a person. So maybe types are "this person is ESFP (or whatever) in relation to me, an INFP (or whatever you consider yourself)."
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #212
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    So you think the individual needs to relate something to themselves for them to truly understand it?

    Hmmmm....that sounds so Fi

    I think people try to depersonalize a person to type them sometimes, because they strive to see them objectively. I can see how that can be offensive, and inaccurate, because you cannot depersonalize a person. So maybe types are "this person is ESFP (or whatever) in relation to me, an INFP (or whatever you consider yourself)."
    Yes, I think my visceral reaction to MBTI is that it is reifying, or to use your word, depersonalizing.

    In other words MBTI turns people into things.

    This is very useful for the USA military and USA business as they reify their recruits and their employees.

    It is also very useful for those who find intimacy too daunting because MBTI gives a way of relating without intimacy.

    And there are more than a few here who want sex without intimacy and MBTI facilitates this.

    There are also more than a few here who want to combine drugs and sex as a way of avoiding intimacy. And MBTI is plainly facilitating that.

    Reifying someone, that is turning them into a thing, is the ultimate insult, but it does have the advantage of avoiding intimacy and avoids the admitted difficulty of growing up and taking responsibility.

    So MBTI seems to offer the good things of life but without intimacy or responsibility. It seems too good to be true. And it is.

  3. #213
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ And people doubt that he's Fi dominant??
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #214
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ^ And people doubt that he's Fi dominant??
    Cut me, do I not bleed?

  5. #215
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ And people doubt that he's Fi dominant????
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #216
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ^ And people doubt that he's Fi dominant????
    It's the perfect analysis.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And there are more than a few here who want sex without intimacy and MBTI facilitates this.
    REALLY?

    In what way? I am intrigued!

  8. #218
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, I think my visceral reaction to MBTI is that it is reifying, or to use your word, depersonalizing.

    In other words MBTI turns people into things.

    This is very useful for the USA military and USA business as they reify their recruits and their employees.

    It is also very useful for those who find intimacy too daunting because MBTI gives a way of relating without intimacy.

    And there are more than a few here who want sex without intimacy and MBTI facilitates this.

    There are also more than a few here who want to combine drugs and sex as a way of avoiding intimacy. And MBTI is plainly facilitating that.

    Reifying someone, that is turning them into a thing, is the ultimate insult, but it does have the advantage of avoiding intimacy and avoids the admitted difficulty of growing up and taking responsibility.

    So MBTI seems to offer the good things of life but without intimacy or responsibility. It seems too good to be true. And it is.
    This reeks of Fi....excuse me, this permeates the sweet odor of Fi. From my perspective, that is
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #219
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    This reeks of Fi....excuse me, this permeates the sweet odor of Fi. From my perspective, that is
    Well, perhaps you are not all bad, mate.

  10. #220
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor
    Reifying someone, that is turning them into a thing, is the ultimate insult [...]
    Not necessarily. For instance, in order to accept someone's admiration (which is something most of us would consider a complement), you have to become an object for that person; only insofar as you allow them to ascribe an objective state to you (i.e. the qualities that designate you as admirable) can that person endow you with that honor. If someone on the other hand were to behold you in your pure essence as a "soul," you would escape definition altogether; you would be nothing more than an empty eye, without body or substance. In practice, such a thing can never exist, for we always need a material sign, typically a human body, to alert us to another's presence. If someone were to appear to us as a naked self, we would be totally reified before them, since another person is a perspective on us that thus designates us as a thing, and only to the extent that we, in turn, can designate them as a thing can we preserve our subjectivity before theirs. (This is demonstrated by the fact that when you objectify a person who stands in your presence, suddenly your awareness of yourself before them--in other words, your existence as a thing in the world--all but vanishes.)

    All of this is to say that the thing you criticize the MBTI for is not only intrinsic to human interaction but something that many of us strive for in one form or another (the only alternative to at least accepting your condition as a thing is to wish for the death of other people).

    You yourself are no exception to this rule. Since you clearly don't wish to kill us all, everything you do on this website is a kind of act, a role that you've taken on and come to wear like a costume with nothing underneath it.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

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