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  1. #161
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I agree that this is Victor expressing himself through creative writing. It's quite apparent given the style of his posts.



    For me, I don't think it's the above phenomenon because:
    (1) I like his posts, as I mentioned earlier; the issue was never with his posts.
    (2) I have no issue with another poster who has a similar style to Victor, wildcat. Why is Victor different? See below:



    Victor is intentionally disingenuous in the sense that he wants to portray that his artwork is his only reality, and given the evidence of him breaking persona (earlier in this thread), this simply isn't true.

    His point was that his name and location are the only other reality relevant to him, and his artwork, the rest. There's more to Victor than that. But, he chooses to present only that to us, fine, great, just acknowledge it. Why acknowledge it?

    As a respect to the audience for whom he performs his art. So, we know where the limits of our expectations are.

    But......

    We are his audience, yet it's more than that. He doesn't want an audience, he wants fans. An audience can dislike a performance, a fan cannot (theoretically).

    As such, he is quick to swing his emotional sword at any audience that is not enamoured by his art. This is narcissistic and selfish.

    And, it's ever hairier than that, it's not just an appreciation of his artwok, we must appreciate/agree with the content of his artwork...such as his radical and skewed views of Islam that is oftentimes offensive and ignorant.

    This is a forum where we exchange ideas. So, it's natural that regardless of the fine presentation of his art, some are wanting explanations for some of his 'art', especially when they're so radical.

    We gave him what he wanted, were his rapt audience, and because we weren't also his instant fans, because we questioned, he responds through his artwork and this time, it's an ugly painting. It's insults, yet.....it's poetic.

    And, so....the audience that asks him to step away from his artwork and explain it, are left with a scathing slice of flesh, because Victor's reality is his artwork. Nothing more. Either you appreciate or are unfair to him, dinkum.

    Victor is more than his artwork, because it is not the critique of his artwork that gets to him, but the content of it. Victor is the mind, with the ideas, thoughts, biases. His artwork is the presentation.

    There's a pretension inherent to this:

    Artwork accessible, artist inaccessible.

    His justification is that those above are not two separate entities, but one. To rationalize the inaccessibility of the artist. This is disengenuous and pretentious.

    Victor should step out and speak as I didn't make commentary on his artwork, but his thoughts that motivated the artwork. I wanted to speak to the artist, but his responses make it feel as if I'm not worthy for the artist to drop his persona and speak to my being through his being.

    There's an acknowledgement of differences, Victor vs. Victor's artwork. But, it seems that, Victor is the one who is unfair to us, because he responds by hiding behind his artwork, and when questioned, calls that his entire being, and respond only to his fans.

    This is a selfish, childish artist. And, those acts of selfishness and childishness makes him disingenuous.

    Finally, Victor was encouraging people to type him. A likely roadblock to this would be whether we can truly type him given that the "Victor" we see is the art, not the artist. So, wanting to confirm whether it's a persona is not the same as calling him disengenuous. The disengenuity came when Victor said that that's all there is to him, he is the art. That there is no artist. There's a flavour of conceit to that thought, for me personally.

    I was talking to simulatedworld about his 'extreme introverts use introverted functions' theory, and I can see ISFP in the persona that is Victor. Even though, I still stand by my claim that what I see is Ne mostly, not Ni. So, my conclusive stance on the artwork that is Victor is IXFP. As for the artist, who knows, as we are not priviledged enough to see him.
    Bet you're glad you got that off your chest?

    ***

    Having spoken to Victor several times, I can vouch for him as a thoughtful, intelligent and thoroughly decent fellow. (However, I might just be one of Victor's dupes, planted to "stir the pot". You never know...)

    Then again, that did require going to the bother of extracting myself from the PC and strolling over to the phone. It also required the huge leap of faith that there might be more to someone than the sum total of their postings on this here little forum - an idea that might seem peculiar to some of the characters around here.

    All the best - one and all.


  2. #162
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Bet you're glad you got that off your chest?
    Either it's this or another thing to pass my time. There's no burden unloaded.

    Do you come to the forums for such catharsis that you speak of?


    Having spoken to Victor several times, I can vouch for him as a thoughtful, intelligent and thoroughly decent fellow. (However, I might just be one of Victor's dupes, planted to "stir the pot". You never know...)
    There was no contention regarding any of those character traits of Victor. As for you being one of his dupes, nah......you're just another of his adoring fans.

    Then again, that did require going to the bother of extracting myself from the PC and strolling over to the phone. It also required the huge leap of faith that there might be more to someone than the sum total of their postings on this here little forum - an idea that might seem peculiar to some of the characters around here.
    No way! Really? And, here we were convinced that the persona we see on these forums were all there was to Victor. I mean, look at this thread....wait, er...then, don't.

  3. #163
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Sorry. The "huge leap of faith..." was meant sarcastically. I should have inserted an emoticon to make that obvious.

    All I would say to you, as a final thought, would be to chat to Victor on Skype or phone him at home. You might be surprised.

    I think you're wasting your time investing any more effort into this little exercise. I know I have.

    Cheers.

  4. #164
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Sorry. The "huge leap of faith..." was meant sarcastically. I should have inserted an emoticon to make that obvious.
    Sorry, I should have been more specific with my highlighting of your post. I was responding sarcastically to the unsarcastic point of yours: "an idea that might seem peculiar to some of the characters around here."

    All I would say to you, as a final thought, would be to chat to Victor on Skype or phone him at home. You might be surprised.
    No doubt.

    I think you're wasting your time investing any more effort into this little exercise. I know I have.

    Cheers.
    Agreed, I'm done.

  5. #165
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Are we playing hanged man....

    _ _ F _

    Is it a TV programme?
    Nowadays, everything is.

  6. #166
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The problem is that I have discovered my own voice. And like anybody who discovers their own voice, it is unique.

    I am, though, surrounded by those who have yet to discover their own voice. And so their voice is not yet unique.

    And not yet having a unique voice of their own they must speak in the conformist voice. So each of them insists they are a unique individual, but all speak in the same voice.

    But it is worse than that because they are proud that they have learnt to speak in the conformist style - they have all the pride of an obedient child.

    And even worse, they think everyone should speak in the conformist style. And the technique they use to get you to conform is called group bullying.

    So every month or so I am subject to group bullying.
    I get a very strong ISFP vibe from this post.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #167
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    INFJ is my guess. His moral stances almost always come from an externally focused place -- to end brainwashing or some random Fe shit.

    Anyway, INFx is unquestionable imo.

  8. #168
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I don't see him being largely motivated by Fe. ISFP sounds very plausible to me. There's definitely Fi there.

  9. #169
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Thumbs down In the Noosphere

    At the living heart there is one desire - to become the poem.

    This is achieved every Sunday when the words, "This is my body", are pronounced and the poem takes flesh.

    It's true the flesh is torn and crowned with thorns - just as we are torn.

    But just for a brief moment, five hundred people become one body. We turn to one another, clasp hands, and give the sign of peace.

    We have been doing his faithfully for two thousand years. We call ourselves universal but we have been waiting on on the aquasphere, on the lithosphere, in the biosphere, waiting on our round world for the noosphere to show itself.

    And when it appears we don't recognise our once and future king. It appears magically on our desks, in our bedrooms, and even on our telephones. But we commit the unpardonable sin and take it for granted. Chaucer told The Pardoner's Tale, but we never beg pardon, we never confess our sin.

    But in our hearts we long for ecstasy, we long to step outside the taken-for-granted.

    They say every young poet longs to become their poem - particularly their love poems.

    Just as I long for you.

    And here I am, waiting for you, hands outstretched in the sign of peace, waiting silently, calmly in the noosphere for you to log on.

  10. #170
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    INFJ.

    Sorry, Vic.

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