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  1. #131
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    You accused him of being fake, you didn't say you believe he might be fake. To the reader there is a -huge- difference there, it wields an entirely different impact and came make the world of difference between hurting someone or trying to intellectually argue with someone.
    No. There is a huge difference for you, because you are picking up on words to prove you're right.

    If I say 'I think' of 'I believe' every time I write an opinion, this forum would be a little more boring than it is. Get off the high moral horse, cowboy, you're going to fall - still didn't answer the 'shitstorm on shitstorm' part.

    As for the rest: I seriously don't care enough *shrug*
    Last edited by Litvyak; 01-03-2010 at 11:02 AM. Reason: quoted later

  2. #132
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    No. There is a huge difference for you, because you are picking up on words to prove you're right.

    If I say 'I think' of 'I believe' every time I write an opinion, this forum would be a little more boring than it is. Get off the high moral horse, cowboy, you're going to fall - still didn't answer the 'shitstorm on shitstorm' part.

    As for the rest: I seriously don't care enough *shrug*
    The most important thing of voicing your thoughts and opinions is by making sure the delivery is ACTUALLY as you intended your point. If you do not take into consideration how others read your posts, then you really should consider stopping posting at all, because your input will be regularly misinterpretted and will not help the consensus at all.

    I always take into consideration on how to deliver my opinion, and take every possible angle in regard concerning my thoughts. I suppose I have an advantage being Ti dom. But it's not too much to ask from anyone else either.

    Everyone is able to realize that saying you think someone is fake and saying they are in fact fake will both be interpretted differently to the reader and if you do not care about how your words are interpretted, then your opinion by default should be considered as bullshit by the consensus. Even in the rare cases you accidentally voice your opinion in the proper wording, we can't really know if you make no effort whatsoever in that direction, no?
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #133
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    How can a person not be himself? Whatever he does, he is still being himself.

    If he likes to act, then that's just who he is.

  4. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    How can a person not be himself? Whatever he does, he is still being himself.

    If he likes to act, then that's just who he is.
    That's an interesting point. But, you'd need to know whether a person was acting or not to see their acting as reflecting their personality and their tendency to act.

  5. #135
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    Victor, please don't go there - makes you an easy target. You don't understand culture from the above statement or the concept of identity for any given member on the forum being made up of multiple cultures. The assumption of a single cultural influence for any of us is a false start.
    With every defensive answer, the "Kick me" sign on his back grew........


    That's the flavor I'm getting and it sucks. I'd like strawberry instead please and it better have real strawberries. None of that stuff with artificial flavoring!
    So refreshing, you understand!

    My #2 pet peeve in this world, after blatant unfairness/cruelty, pretentiousness. Following toe to toe with righteous ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by =ergophobe View Post
    1. What is culture or identity in the context of an online identity?
    I'd say, not very much, if at all. Unless the forum you've joined is specifically about a cultural identity.

    For TypeC type forums, I think individuals' cultures become important if:
    (1) they need clarification understanding something given the cultural block. Say, English is not their first language, or its a cultural meme that they're not familiar with, etc.

    (2) The particular topic of discussion. If it's relevant to cultural identities, then, discussing where one is coming from and all that they know of their own cultures, can add a richness to the discussion.

    2. How do we measure or determine how guarded or open one is on an online forum?
    I don't even think it's relevant to measure it. Be as guarded as you like, be as open as you like. Your choice.

    Just don't mix up the two for your audience. I.e., be guarded, but say you're open. Be open, but say you're a timid wallflower. (unless you're joking )

    It's asking for a reactionary response from the audience........the question that's implicitly asked through such contradictions, is, 'are you buying it?'

    Should it measured by the level of personal detail one is willing to offer?
    No.
    Does a higher level of personal detail imply a greater level of sincerity in reflecting one's RL views/opinions?
    No.

    For me, it's the genuineness of the discourse that matters from online forums. As, written discourse is our only ties to one another.

    Give genuinely to that, don't mask, shape-shift, present false information as truth, muddy facts, etc. And, I don't even care if I believe the position I may be arguing, or if you do........but, I can't explain it, there's still an genuineness, a responsibility to present the thought as openly as possible, and be open to the responses piqued by that thought, which matters to me.

    Does the anonymity that is offered to us here (it is a choice, you know at both ends ) provide us a safe space to present our views/opinions openly in a way that the personal details would inhibit us in real life?
    Most certainly. I would not be as open as I am online, if I was tied to my tangible identity. As I don't know the people on this forum. Being tied to my tangible identity, and being open is fine and great IRL, as those are my trusted FRIENDS & FAMILY. I can't trust most of the people here, as I don't know who they are. So, of course, I'd just want to be free to share my thoughts without ties to my tangible identity. E.g., I would not want my supervisors coming upon a post of mine discussing how I am turned on by gay men, as a straight female and the intricate details of why I have that taste. But, I love that I can share this online, and have a discourse of this thought of mine, that very rarely do I get to discuss as openly, IRL.

    3. Finally, why should this matter at all?
    Nope. It shouldn't.

    Except........when the person in question is ASKING for it to matter.

    I really am x, y, z, BUY ME!! BUY ME!!!!!!!

    One then has permission to respond.

    Precisely because it's an international forum, distance and details become less important than more. When we don't present our views as tied to particular contexts, we allow people to see us for us - not tied to stereotypical images of the environments in which we reside. More similarities and differences based on personality type - after all, isn't that what brings us here?
    Well said.

  6. #136
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    How do you define being yourself? If you write a skill on your application form that does not fit you in order to get a better chance at a job.
    Makes you a liar for all intent and purposes of the definition of a liar.

    Doesn't that action itself define who you are, for it was clearly important to you to do that?
    Shows that you are willing to lie to get what you want, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    That said, I'm personally not convinced with that arguement, that he has a certain intentional agenda. Definatly not in the intention of the person concerning the arguement. But whatever his reasons may be, he is still himself. So that arguement whatever his reasons are, are not important in the point I made.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Let the guy post as he will. If it truly bothers anyone, it's their shortcoming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    Absolutely!
    Nothing wrong with Victor's persona.

    Fluffy, it's an intentional persona (I dunno what you mean by intentional agenda)......those who have talked to him on Skype, knows that he does not talk the way he posts here. He's quite different.

    Regardless, none of that is neither here nor there. Be whoever you want to be, even if it is a character, a persona...........just own it. That's all. Own it.

    Don't blatantly claim to not be something (not jokingly), when your act is the opposite; it implies that you consider your audience to be gullible enough to buy it.

    And, that's where the issue stops being just his concern, and becomes our concern, as he's putting this act off on us. And asking us to swallow it as real. It offends my intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    Heh. It seems to me that Victor is the most misunderstood member, if we're giving out titles here.
    Absolutely. It's cuz he's not giving of himself to be understood, just a slice of his reality.

    Personally, I would miss Victor's posts terribly if he left. My issue has nothing to do with the content of his posts, so I'd be worse off ignoring his posts.

    I don't go after people who don't ask for it. Victor, earlier in the thread, asked for it. He wanted people to talk about his type, and wanted to know how others saw him (attention-seeking...as he knew this thread was not about him/his type, but, stroked those convos about him, regardless).....he asked first, hence, we responded. He just wasn't expecting this turn of events.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    That's a start. So I am a "- - F -". That's one letter out of four. But I think the first letter is the most important, so do you think I am an I or an E?
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Ah, we are getting there. So far I am an IxFP. There is only one letter to go. I wonder what I am. Will it change my life? Four is a nice number, a nice round number. And four squared is my lucky number 16. But I don't want you to think I am superstitious or anything. And nor do I want you to think I am into numerology. No, what I want to know is the second letter of my type.

    What do you think it is?
    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    "Yet another [thread] devolves into a Victor-centric discussion. The man has talent.
    -InaF3157"

  7. #137
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Ahem, we all use this forum in order to attain attention. If we didn't we wouldn't get past the lurking stage.

    Either way, wether or not the attack on Victor was meant as said or not, I said what I thought was right and I still have no problem with Victor as he still isn't harming anyone. Whilest clearly it seemed people do wish to harm him.

    And just for the sake of arguement though. Would you also say a scizophrenic person (Not saying Vic is like that, but I don't know him that well, for all I care he could be.) isn't allowed to get psychological help because he is lying? Is it so weird that a person has a different kind of persona when writing on a forum as opposed to talking on a camera? I know I'm different on cam. In fact, I know all introverts are.

    I still absolutely see no reason to retract my earlier statements. And I'm not convinced with Victor's so-called "lies".
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  8. #138
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Ahem, we all use this forum in order to attain attention. If we didn't we wouldn't get past the lurking stage.

    Either way, wether or not the attack on Victor was meant as said or not, I said what I thought was right and I still have no problem with Victor as he still isn't harming anyone. Whilest clearly it seemed people do wish to harm him.
    Harm him, how?

    He asked for people to critique his supposed type. He ASKED. People did. Of course, a likely point that's bound to come up is if we could really type "Victor" as what he posts is likely a persona.

    We're a Typology forum. Different personality types. This is a likely discussion on this forum. And, it's a likely criticism that someone who is asking to be typed cannot be typed so because he hasn't presented who he is, really.

    Do you not understand the logic in this? I think you're Fe-eling too much on the topic, rather than trying to understand the motivations of those that criticiqued him and how it came about.


    And just for the sake of arguement though. Would you also say a scizophrenic person (Not saying Vic is like that, but I don't know him that well, for all I care he could be.) isn't allowed to get psychological help because he is lying? Is it so weird that a person has a different kind of persona when writing on a forum as opposed to talking on a camera? I know I'm different on cam. In fact, I know all introverts are.
    Different persona is fine. I said that many times in my earlier posts. You missed my main point. Own it. Own that there's different personas presented. Don't deny when someone says that you indeed have different personas.

    Those with mental illness are exempt from this as it's not them, but their mental illness speaking. I don't see the analogy.

    If it's a disorder that's making Victor act the way he does, I retract all my statements, and apologize, as the point of typing him, or analyzing him, should have been moot at that point.

    I still absolutely see no reason to retract my earlier statements. And I'm not convinced with Victor's so-called "lies".
    Okay.

  9. #139
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Okay.
    My issue was not with you nor most of the posts in the thread. Just the fact that Victor was seemingly accused of pretty much being a rat face liar trying to manipulate people. Which I admit I found amusing but also very wrong. Since I do not believe he really has any ill intent. So I found that accusation disturbing. Later on the earlier accuser excused himself by saying he didn't 'really' mean it in that way but he just didn't clarify. He meant to say he believed Victor to be a liar, but wasn't actually sure. Had he said just that, the intent of his post wouldn't have been as disturbing as it was without clarification. So whatever, discussion was over.

    The fact remains that Victor isn't here to manipulate or harm people. And I'm pretty sure about that. :P (Because if he was, he is really really bad at it.)

    So people seemingly were abusive towards him, for no apparant reason. It wasn't Fe-tripping. It was just my Ti spotting some patterns and not liking what I saw. As it wasn't Vic that should've been accused of anything, but the ones being abusive towards him in my opinion. So I wanted to break that trend before it escalated. That at least seemed to have worked, but now the discussion isn't even relevant anymore. :p
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  10. #140
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    what I perceive here is him [Victor] being a victim of pointless bullying. And that happens like every month or so
    The problem is that I have discovered my own voice. And like anybody who discovers their own voice, it is unique.

    I am, though, surrounded by those who have yet to discover their own voice. And so their voice is not yet unique.

    And not yet having a unique voice of their own they must speak in the conformist voice. So each of them insists they are a unique individual, but all speak in the same voice.

    But it is worse than that because they are proud that they have learnt to speak in the conformist style - they have all the pride of an obedient child.

    And even worse, they think everyone should speak in the conformist style. And the technique they use to get you to conform is called group bullying.

    So every month or so I am subject to group bullying.

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