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Thread: The P/J Dilemma

  1. #1
    Senior Member Urchin's Avatar
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    Default The P/J Dilemma

    Sometimes I can't tell whether I'm truly an INTP or I'm a disorganized INTJ. My P bias is weak. You've seen me posting around, what do you think?

    I'm extremely theoretical. I'm very withdrawn into my internal world most of the time. Which is more theoretical and introspective, Ni or Ti?

    Socially I'm more like an INTP. I avoid confrontations and arguments because they don't interest me.

    Thoughts?
    "Having is not such a pleasing thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." --Spock

    MBTI: INTP
    Enneagram: 5w6 - SP/SX
    Oldham: Solitary, Idiosyncratic

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    I find interaction style helps a lot in deciphering code.

    Interaction Styles

    Also, do you have a need for closure? Do you need to set a goal and follow a plan? If you are confined to a plan, do you feel stifled or is it comfortable to you?

    Do you favor Fi over Fe? I know Fe is INTP's inferior, but Fi is INTJ's tertiary. I find people with even an inferior Fe tend to use feeling in more of a "being considerate" sort of way.

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    INTP's are known to abandon an argument when they're losing, or sue for peace to end it rather than letting it reach it's conclusion if it's going towards something unfavorable to their position. INTJ's would rather finish what they start even if it means they look bad as a result. Which do you do?

    Being extremely theoretical and indrawn is an INxx thing, and doesn't really tell you much.

    Saying that you're more like an INTP socially is a bit of an oxymoron. INTP's are not very social, you know?

    But anyway, is your motivation for avoiding arguments partially because you think that most of the people who disagree with you wouldn't understand or agree with your ideas even if you explained them? Just that even if they could understand, the people are not worth the effort required to explain your ideas to them?

    Also, which is harder for you to deal with? Sensing or Feeling? Even if it's feeling, how do you experience Feeling usually? By experiencing an inner intensity focused inward on itself, or is it evoked by and focused towards an outside stimulus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Urchin View Post
    Sometimes I can't tell whether I'm truly an INTP or I'm a disorganized INTJ. My P bias is weak. You've seen me posting around, what do you think?
    P's tend to hesitate about being P or J, J's know.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Urchin's Avatar
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    My interaction style is Designer Theorizer, which points towards INTP.

    Also, do you have a need for closure? Do you need to set a goal and follow a plan? If you are confined to a plan, do you feel stifled or is it comfortable to you?
    I love making plans and starting them, but I have trouble following through on them a lot of the time.

    Do you favor Fi over Fe?
    My F is very diminished. I feel uncomfortable when faced with emotions I can't control. I get very irritated when others operate in illogical, emotion-based manners. I don't know whether this makes me more Fi or Fe.

    INTP's are known to abandon an argument when they're losing, or sue for peace to end it rather than letting it reach it's conclusion if it's going towards something unfavorable to their position. INTJ's would rather finish what they start even if it means they look bad as a result. Which do you do?
    I abandon arguments easily. If the argument is not accomplishing anything further, I end it. I never argue for the sake of arguing.

    Saying that you're more like an INTP socially is a bit of an oxymoron. INTP's are not very social, you know?
    My point exactly.

    But anyway, is your motivation for avoiding arguments partially because you think that most of the people who disagree with you wouldn't understand or agree with your ideas even if you explained them? Just that even if they could understand, the people are not worth the effort required to explain your ideas to them?
    Most of the time, I don't care whether people understand my ideas or not. If there is a reason I need them to understand, I will explain to them and am actually a good teacher.

    Also, which is harder for you to deal with? Sensing or Feeling? Even if it's feeling, how do you experience Feeling usually? By experiencing an inner intensity focused inward on itself, or is it evoked by and focused towards an outside stimulus?
    I have a lot of trouble with Feeling, and normally I experience it as an overwhelming inward emotion with which I don't know what to do. I still don't understand what Sensing actually is. Does it mean concrete and reality-based? I'm not that at all. I hate reality and all its error. I hate it when there are unknown factors affecting my data.

    Where does that leave me?
    "Having is not such a pleasing thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." --Spock

    MBTI: INTP
    Enneagram: 5w6 - SP/SX
    Oldham: Solitary, Idiosyncratic

  6. #6
    Senior Member Urchin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    P's tend to hesitate about being P or J, J's know.
    A valid point!
    "Having is not such a pleasing thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." --Spock

    MBTI: INTP
    Enneagram: 5w6 - SP/SX
    Oldham: Solitary, Idiosyncratic

  7. #7
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urchin View Post
    I have a lot of trouble with Feeling, and normally I experience it as an overwhelming inward emotion with which I don't know what to do. I still don't understand what Sensing actually is. Does it mean concrete and reality-based? I'm not that at all. I hate reality and all its error. I hate it when there are unknown factors affecting my data.

    Where does that leave me?
    Ugh... I agree with that. Sensing pretty much is concrete and reality based... so annoying, it never does what you expect it to, never fits my expectations, messes up my plans with things that I didn't understand/compensate for.

    Now... which is worse? The concrete, unknown factors, or the inward feeling you don't know what to do with? If you were forced to endure one or the other for a given period?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Urchin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Now... which is worse? The concrete, unknown factors, or the inward feeling you don't know what to do with? If you were forced to endure one or the other for a given period?
    I guess I've learned to deal with the Fi, and I can use logic to keep it from controlling my actions. Sensing, on the other hand, will always make me irate.
    "Having is not such a pleasing thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." --Spock

    MBTI: INTP
    Enneagram: 5w6 - SP/SX
    Oldham: Solitary, Idiosyncratic

  9. #9
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urchin View Post
    I guess I've learned to deal with the Fi, and I can use logic to keep it from controlling my actions. Sensing, on the other hand, will always make me irate.
    I think you might be an INTJ, then. Now that I think about it, I did see a couple of J-ish tendencies in the way you structured your Introduction post. And you actually do have some traits that could be Ni now that I think about it...

  10. #10
    Senior Member Urchin's Avatar
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    I read a bunch of profiles of INTJs and INTPs to shed light on my problem.

    "However, their primary interest is not understanding a concept, but rather applying that concept in a useful way. Unlike the INTP, they do not follow an idea as far as they possibly can, seeking only to understand it fully. INTJs are driven to come to conclusions about ideas."

    I'm on the INTP side of this.

    "The INTP has no understanding or value for decisions made on the basis of personal subjectivity or feelings. They strive constantly to achieve logical conclusions to problems, and don't understand the importance or relevance of applying subjective emotional considerations to decisions. For this reason, INTPs are usually not in-tune with how people are feeling, and are not naturally well-equiped to meet the emotional needs of others."

    This has ended many a friendship for me.

    "If the INTP has not developed their Sensing side sufficiently, they may become unaware of their environment, and exhibit weakness in performing maintenance-type tasks, such as bill-paying and dressing appropriately."

    I'm a slob. This is truth. I often forget to put on proper clothing and go to school wearing a grubby night shirt, jeans, and slippers, totally forgetting to comb my hair, etc. I'm viewed by others as a bizarre sort of nerd-savant with a total ineptness regarding reality.

    "INTJs need to remember to express themselves sufficiently, so as to avoid difficulties with people misunderstandings. In the absence of properly developing their communication abilities, they may become abrupt and short with people, and isolationists."

    This fits.

    "When under a great deal of stress, the INTJ may become obsessed with mindless repetitive, Sensate activities, such as over-drinking. They may also tend to become absorbed with minutia and details that they would not normally consider important to their overall goal. "

    I am the opposite of this. When I am under pressure, I lose track of all detail and become extremely abstract and broad-brush about things.

    This is making me think INTP. I'm not applied or goal-oriented enough to be an INTJ. I compare myself to my boyfriend (a textbook INTJ) and find that I am more artistic than he, and less particular about things. We both get total tunnel vision when something interesting appears, though. I'm a fan of INTxs.
    "Having is not such a pleasing thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." --Spock

    MBTI: INTP
    Enneagram: 5w6 - SP/SX
    Oldham: Solitary, Idiosyncratic

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