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Thread: The P/J Dilemma

  1. #11
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urchin View Post
    Sometimes I can't tell whether I'm truly an INTP or I'm a disorganized INTJ. My P bias is weak. You've seen me posting around, what do you think?

    I'm extremely theoretical. I'm very withdrawn into my internal world most of the time. Which is more theoretical and introspective, Ni or Ti?

    Socially I'm more like an INTP. I avoid confrontations and arguments because they don't interest me.

    Thoughts?
    Ti Se is not theoretic nor introspective. Ti Ne is theoretic not introspective. Ni Te is pragmatic, theoretic and introspective.

    I read in another thread that Ni is a left brain capacity because it represents a J.

    Wrong.

    1. Ni does not represent a J. It is a J.
    2. Ni is not a P. It represents a P.

    To represent is to stand in the place of another.

    Hence the P/J dichotomy is ill conceived.

  2. #12
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Ti Se is not theoretic nor introspective. Ti Ne is theoretic not introspective. Ni Te is pragmatic, theoretic and introspective.

    I read in another thread that Ni is a left brain capacity because it represents a J.

    Wrong.

    1. Ni does not represent a J. It is a J.
    2. Ni is not a P. It represents a P.

    To represent is to stand in the place of another.

    Hence the P/J dichotomy is ill conceived.
    Do you think that Jungian Rationality/Irrationality would have been a better standard for what people often express (or attempt to express) in terms of J/P, or at least had a significant effect on it that is currently neglected? Socionics uses that instead of the standard J/P, in case you're curious.

  3. #13
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietgirl View Post
    I find interaction style helps a lot in deciphering code.

    Interaction Styles
    Just out of curiousity -- what types of interactions should one be 'analyzing' to determine interaction style? My interaction style is rather situational.

    [I don't want to take over this thread though - maybe I should start my own!]

  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Just out of curiosity -- what types of interactions should one be 'analyzing' to determine interaction style? My interaction style is rather situational.
    It might change a little depending on the situation, but was there one out of the four that, when you read it, seemed to be more typical of you if you are not changing to fit a situation? If you could play ANY of the four roles, which would be the most comfortable for you?

    ("Behind the Scenes" was definitely correct for me.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Just out of curiousity -- what types of interactions should one be 'analyzing' to determine interaction style? My interaction style is rather situational.

    [I don't want to take over this thread though - maybe I should start my own!]
    Think of what you naturally do. My natural style as an INFJ is "Chart the Course", but when the situation calls for it, I CAN try to adapt to a more "Behind the Scenes" (or whatever else) approach. However, let it be know how NOT gracefully I do it and I usually revert back to my natural tendency to set a goal, follow a plan, and speak directly as soon as I can.

    I should add that "Chart the Course" people tend to speak more directly & "Behind the Scenes" people tend to speak more passively. I haven't had many problems with people listening to me and it's one of my INFP brother's biggest complaints.

  6. #16
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It might change a little depending on the situation, but was there one out of the four that, when you read it, seemed to be more typical of you if you are not changing to fit a situation? If you could play ANY of the four roles, which would be the most comfortable for you?

    ("Behind the Scenes" was definitely correct for me.)
    Actually the more I read about interaction styles, and after having read the Fe/Fi thread, I'm seriously questioning my own type. :-)

    [I don't think it helps that I've always been one for self-growth, and not staying 'stagnant', so it's probable I've explored all 8 functions somewhat decently, which is why I'm having issues with my 'real' type.]

    Honestly?? Behind-the-scenes struck a chord w/ me, and I actually do think this is more how I am in my personal, private life. I'd much rather not play an active role, and I'm much more go-with-the-flow in terms of conversation (and my life in general). I don't try to steer conversations in one direction or another. I see where the conversations go. BUT if I'm anxious about a social interaction, and this is more of the introvert thing, I'll definitely 'plan' out what I want to talk about, or general conversation/interaction topics.

    In general, I can actually be rather apathetic about how the interactions play out, when it boils down to it. :-) I want to see what happens naturally. I don't have any 'purpose/goal/course' in mind when I'm interacting with people and getting to know them.

    But if there is a decision that needs to be reached, or in a work setting where a 'deliverable' needs to occur, then that's where I'll become much more Chart-the-Course. When I find myself in a work setting, I really can't stand meetings where people aren't capturing the main points and are going off on tangents, so I'll come to the forefront and be more directing in meetings, because I'm all about *clarity* and making sure people don't get offtrack. So I find myself in certain situations where people need more of a leader, that I become the leader and I become the person people 'look at' for an answer. So it's quite...confusing. I don't really choose this role, it just falls on me because I get annoyed with people missing important points, big picture, etc, and I somehow become the person people turn to for clarity and for a decisive answer. So at work, I'm *definitely* Chart-the-Course, because I definitely kick things up a notch at work and can't NOT get things moving. Edit: I'm not THE leader who sets the course of the meeting and decides the agenda, and I would never want to be that person - BUT I think I'm more of a ?driver? to keep things on track and focused. I'll often be quiet for 10 minutes or so, and then hop in with something, and then I find people tend to look at me during discussion topics, as if they WANT me to provide my input... (but I suppose this is getting off-topic for interaction styles)

    Outside of Interaction Styles, and regarding J/P (?): And I guess I don't find myself terribly goal-oriented as far as my life goes....one person commented to me once that I just kinda float along and 'wait' for things to happen...although if I realize I'm wafting around too much I'll eventually take charge and kick myself in the ass to DO something. :-) So I go in phases of doing nothing for a while (i.e. no tangible goals), realizing I'm doing nothing, getting ancy to enact some change and not become 'stagnant', and then making a goal so I actually do something and grow. :-)


    Fi/Fe....honestly I think my Fi is off the charts, and if I'm honest with myself, I wonder whether I've 'trained' myself to be more Fe. It's a tough call, but I DO know that I relate to nearly everything under Fi when I read about it. When I read how others experience Fe...I'm just not sure if that's how I am. I know that that's how I choose to interact with everyone around me, and I'm very attune to other peoples' needs and am sensitive to their emotional states....but I'm just not sure, I almost think my Fi trumps my Fe....

  7. #17
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Do you think that Jungian Rationality/Irrationality would have been a better standard for what people often express (or attempt to express) in terms of J/P, or at least had a significant effect on it that is currently neglected? Socionics uses that instead of the standard J/P, in case you're curious.
    How?

  8. #18
    Member Maha Raj's Avatar
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    I think P or J doesn't matter ... because, u can always switch to other by changing your behaviors...

    P - Childish behaviors
    J - Matured behaviors

    But who would want to behave childish once they are matured... therefore, Js wouldn't even think about becoming a P.

    I am an ENTP, but you know that I would feel better if I am an ENTJ... cuz ENTJs are the GOLDen Boys...
    "Here I am! Now what are your other two wishes?"

  9. #19
    Member Maha Raj's Avatar
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    To support my previous post, i think i should explain what i think about this MBTI thing...

    E - Extroverts explore the world around them using Intuitiveness (or sensation) and then think about it using their Thinking (or feelings) part.

    I - Introverts uses Thinking (or Feelings) to analyze what's in their mind and then try to explore the world using Intuition (or Sensations).

    P or J doesn't matter because it simply the way (behaviors) how these two types interact with the world.
    "Here I am! Now what are your other two wishes?"

  10. #20
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maha Raj View Post
    To support my previous post, i think i should explain what i think about this MBTI thing...

    E - Extroverts explore the world around them using Intuitiveness (or sensation) and then think about it using their Thinking (or feelings) part.

    I - Introverts uses Thinking (or Feelings) to analyze what's in their mind and then try to explore the world using Intuition (or Sensations).

    P or J doesn't matter because it simply the way (behaviors) how these two types interact with the world.
    Yes.
    Because of the hapless mismatch of N/S contra I/E.

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