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  1. #31
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    You're quite right that this is Fi in distress coz it's trying to figure out who she is and she's using Te to let off steam. But that doesn't make her ESTJ. Unless you wanna call me ESTJ too.

    And you may not appreciate the way she goes about it, but it's a forum, so ignore the threads if you don't enjoy it. She's appologized and explained herself enough, imo. LL, here's a tip for ya, try ranting to someone you know won't take it badly. Doing so in public always gets you bitten in the ass, ime. But do rant. You need it

    Just don't get stuck in a loop. Rant, and self-reflect. It'll get you the answers you seek.
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  2. #32
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    You're quite right that this is Fi in distress coz it's trying to figure out who she is and she's using Te to let off steam. But that doesn't make her ESTJ. Unless you wanna call me ESTJ too.

    And you may not appreciate the way she goes about it, but it's a forum, so ignore the threads if you don't enjoy it. She's appologized and explained herself enough, imo. LL, here's a tip for ya, try ranting to someone you know won't take it badly. Doing so in public always gets you bitten in the ass, ime. But do rant. You need it
    No, the other dynamics explained in my post make her ESTJ. She's Te+Ne; it explains the overcompensating dominance/frustration with inefficiency as well as the constant attempt to change and reevaluate her type. She is very conflicted because Te demands completed results while Ne pulls her toward redefinition and change.

    Compounding matters is her lack of a solid introverted function. As a Te+Ne ESTJ, she lacks solid self-understanding that would come from Si and thus her self-image is grossly overdependent upon the approval of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Just don't get stuck in a loop. Rant, and self-reflect. It'll get you the answers you seek.
    She doesn't know how to self-reflect. That's the problem--she's stuck in an extroverted loop and depends entirely on external validation. Why do you think she's spent 50+ pages seeking opinions from others about her? She doesn't know how to build a self-image for herself without an introverted function.

    Te: I must choose a category for myself! Anything less would indecisive and unquantified, which is unacceptable.

    Ne: But what if the chosen category doesn't have a broad enough context to fully explain? I'd better ask for more opinions from others!

    And so on and so forth until doomsday...
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #33
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I recognize myself in her, not so long ago. And I'd say her ranting and using Te to do so is indicative of the tertiary relief function. The style is Ne-dom, I'd say. Stream of consciousness. I'm of the opinion that LL is an ENFP who's been raised to achieve, and has tried to comply, as ENFPs like pleasing people. She's quite good at it too, as she's got a good developped Te. But it left her Fi behind a bit. She's catching up, as we speak. Let her

    Edit: Fi gets its info from Ne..she's gathering information by getting other people's perspectives as Fi feels too closely involved to be able to make a judgement call. When overloaded, Te steps in to protect and dismiss everything as irrelevant to get rid of the head ache she's experiencing. That too is typical for NFPs, ime.
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  4. #34
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I recognize myself in her, not so long ago. And I'd say her ranting and using Te to do so is indicative of the tertiary relief function. The style is Ne-dom, I'd say. Stream of consciousness. I'm of the opinion that LL is an ENFP who's been raised to achieve, and has tried to comply, as ENFPs like pleasing people. She's quite good at it too, as she's got a good developped Te. But it left her Fi behind a bit. She's catching up, as we speak. Let her

    Edit: Fi gets its info from Ne..she's gathering information by getting other people's perspectives as Fi feels too closely involved to be able to make a judgement call. When overloaded, Te steps in to protect and dismiss everything as irrelevant to get rid of the head ache she's experiencing. That too is typical for NFPs, ime.
    I agree it must be either ENFP or ESTJ, but either way it's the unbalanced form leading with two extroverted functions. It's either Ne+Te or Te+Ne taking most of the lead here; her extreme dependence on external validation is obvious.

    I still lean pretty heavily toward ESTJ, but ENFP is definitely the 2nd most likely. Te+Ne or Ne+Te will tend to come off as an odd hybrid between these two.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #35
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Fi is a tough beast to ride..all you can really do is hang on for dear life in the beginning. Believe it or not, what she's doing is productive to getting the hang of it. And it is the only way she'll get her answers. She's the only one who has the answers really.

    Keep going, LL
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  6. #36
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post


    Fi is a tough beast to ride..all you can really do is hang on for dear life in the beginning. Believe it or not, what she's doing is productive to getting the hang of it. And it is the only way she'll get her answers. She's the only one who has the answers really.

    Keep going, LL
    She doesn't want to hear "only you can answer this for yourself, by looking inward" because lacking a strong introverted function, she has no idea how to do that.

    Either way you're right about the Fi--but it's so poorly controlled here that it's either inferior (if she's ESTJ) or really, REALLY poorly developed auxiliary (if she's ENFP.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #37
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    So give her time and space to learn how to do so.
    She's trying. It's just hard to trust it as it is so volatile and hard to balance. And yes, let her ask other people's opinions. It'll help her self-reflect, and enrich her own point of views. She'll get there eventually

    Edit: Fi can easily be avoided because it's considered useless by the outside world (at least ime) and is such a tough thing to really develop. Te is way more useful. Or so it appears. The constant swinging back and forth is normal, as Fi tries to balance itself out. Gaining mastery over that is..yeah. I think even INFPs sometimes struggle with that. Personally, I think that EXTJs don't have the stamina for it..they just emo it in the most basic way, that is, if they can no longer avoid it. Most of the time they just pretend it's not there..or so it seems
    I don't see LL doing that. I see her fighting for control and how to deal with this properly. Hence my ENFP-guess
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  8. #38
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I don't see LL doing that. I see her fighting for control and how to deal with this properly. Hence my ENFP-guess
    Fighting for control and seeking ways to actively confront problems is ENFP?

    That sounds a lot more Te-dominant to me. "I need to get organized and actively reach solutions."

    I see Ne as a much more conscious process for her (typical of aux/tert), and Te as so ingrained that she doesn't even realize the extent to which it colors her perceptions (typical of dominant.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #39
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Fighting for control and seeking ways to actively confront problems is ENFP?

    That sounds a lot more Te-dominant to me.
    Hehe..depends on what area. I find that EXTJs don't even know where tos tart to control Fi..coz that would mean acknowledging it's there
    Whereas for an ENFP, it's vital to know who you are, and be authentic. That means struggling till you can ride that wild beast. And that requires NeTe..Ne to gain info on how to ride it properly, and Te to get back on the beast when you fall off

    EDit: THe solution-need comes from Fi. It's the desire to live up to your own standards. In this case, be a balanced individual and know what you want. And live up to your own values. But that creates problems with reality as we're human..not perfect. It takes a while to find a way to reconcile your values with the reality and how to deal with that smoothly. And that need and obsession is very much present. If it is perceived to be impossible, ime the NFP will be depressed, glum and jaded. The need to figure oneself out is very much Fi. Te is just there to shield Fi when it gets overloaded, and to help press for a workable solution, whereas Ne provides intel.
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  10. #40
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Hehe..depends on what area. I find that EXTJs don't even know where tos tart to control Fi..coz that would mean acknowledging it's there
    Whereas for an ENFP, it's vital to know who you are, and be authentic. That means struggling till you can ride that wild beast. And that requires NeTe..Ne to gain info on how to ride it properly, and Te to get back on the beast when you fall off
    Her very insistence on coming to a definitive conclusion at all costs is characteristically Te.

    I've never seen an ENFP spend anywhere near this much time and effort (and get this upset!) trying to figure out something as ultimately trivial as what four-letter label best describes her personality. If they do, it's treated more like an amusing game that doesn't need to be finished or completed at any particular time. ENFPs often consider themselves too unique to be boxed in or fully described by something so limited, anyway--Ne would more likely get bored and recognize that she can still look for her identity and express individualism without getting a precisely quantifiable result from some kind of personality "test."

    The insistence on having that completed result has been the driving force here all along. Her Ne only comes in later, in fragmented bursts, questioning her latest decisions and repeatedly wrecking dominant Te's progress. This is pretty typical for a tertiary function, too.

    And man, I just can't see Fi as the auxiliary here. Its effect on her is far too unaware of context or degree, and comes in largely unconsciously when she gets especially frustrated. I see her desire to get herself figured out as just another means of applying Te--"I need to know which category I am in so that I can deal with life's tasks most efficiently, and it upsets me when I cannot determine things like this with certainty."

    It's just really really dominant Te. You see a lot of yourself in her simply because you share the same functions, but your priority orders are quite different--your Ne and Fi both dwarf hers and dominate your perspective to a much higher degree. There's waaaay too much Te going on here for a distant tertiary function.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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