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Type me!

SolitaryWalker

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You're so right. I wish I could solve this and get it over with. I have the 17th type along with Babylon Candle, who seems to be having the exact same dilemma as me right now. (YAY for someone who is like me! Wait, do I want to wish that on anyone?)

My best guess is that you're both ENFPs who got carried away by academic subjects and were misled into believing you were Thinking types.

In many posts both of you seem to have a much easier time shifting from subject to subject and drawing conclusion on a purely intuitive basis rather than analytical. Even dominant N NTs on this forum and academia in general tend to be much more cautious and conservative in their reasoning.

The fact that you still reason in this way despite that you got involved in an academic climate that offers almost no reinforcement to this kind of thinking (generally academics reward focused, specific and sequential thought), suggests that your natural tendencies still make themselves known, despite the fact that the environment offers no incentive for you to let these tendencies show.
 

Thalassa

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My best guess is that you're both ENFPs who got carried away by academic subjects and were misled into believing you were Thinking types.

In many posts both of you seem to have a much easier time shifting from subject to subject and drawing conclusion on a purely intuitive basis rather than analytical. Even dominant N NTs on this forum and academia in general tend to be much more cautious and conservative in their reasoning.

The fact that you still reason in this way despite that you got involved in an academic climate that offers almost no reinforcement to this kind of thinking (generally academics reward focused, specific and sequential thought), suggests that your natural tendencies still make themselves known, despite the fact that the environment offers no incentive for you to let these tendencies show.

Plenty of NFs are involved in academia. Being a good student or being interested in knowledge for the sheer love of it does not an NT make. However, her intense love of structure and other clues caused me to lean ISTJ. If we are once again leaning toward NF, I have to insist that she's xNFJ, probably INFJ. I sincerely do not see the case for ENFP, and I've noticed at least three or four other ENFPs in this thread expressing similar doubts.
 

Little Linguist

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My best guess is that you're both ENFPs who got carried away by academic subjects and were misled into believing you were Thinking types.

In many posts both of you seem to have a much easier time shifting from subject to subject and drawing conclusion on a purely intuitive basis rather than analytical. Even dominant N NTs on this forum and academia in general tend to be much more cautious and conservative in their reasoning.

The fact that you still reason in this way despite that you got involved in an academic climate that offers almost no reinforcement to this kind of thinking (generally academics reward focused, specific and sequential thought), suggests that your natural tendencies still make themselves known, despite the fact that the environment offers no incentive for you to let these tendencies show.

Could be. But that would indicate that I would have to struggle in academia and thank my good fortune that I managed to make it. On the contrary, I'm actually quite successful (not I do not intend to sound crass or haughty).

Perhaps your line of work rewards this kind of thinking over all, but I have had no problems in academia - neither at university, nor post-graduate scholarships, nor as a teacher. SO.....

That notwithstanding, I think you have a valid point with the dominant intuition. Perhaps I am ENFP/Enneagram 1, which makes a very bizarre combination, leading one to think I am a TJ.

Or perhaps I am a different type - we'll see.

IF I am an ENFP (which several ENFPs here seem to question, and I do as well) then it can only be explained through this bizarre combination.

Plenty of NFs are involved in academia. Being a good student or being interested in knowledge for the sheer love of it does not an NT make. However, her intense love of structure and other clues caused me to lean ISTJ. If we are once again leaning toward NF, I have to insist that she's xNFJ, probably INFJ. I sincerely do not see the case for ENFP, and I've noticed at least three or four other ENFPs in this thread expressing similar doubts.

Right. The only valid case I heard was ENFP/1. Otherwise, I just have to shake my head. And this manifests in practical ways - check it out. You have all the ENFPs developing complex, haphazard methods to keep the sexuality forum in place because of their innate desire to have freedom of this and that. My idea? Personal responsibility, and if that fails. OUT! OUT! You knew the limits, you screwed up after multiple warnings. OUT!
 

OrangeAppled

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What gives you the feeling I am a competent Si-user?

You're looking to the past to create a rule for your present. As mentioned in this thread many times, you seem to value "normalcy".

Maybe you're ENTJ, but usually people who posses competent Ni can explain it better. I have a hard time seeing you as anything but Te-dom, from your examples anyway.
 

Little Linguist

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You're looking to the past to create a rule for your present. As mentioned in this thread many times, you seem to value "normalcy".

Maybe you're ENTJ, but usually people who posses competent Ni can explain it better. I have a hard time seeing you as anything but Te-dom, from your examples anyway.

I would personally embrace either one once it has been proven as truth. I have no bias one way or another, and I would appreciate being an S-type as much as an N. However, we have to make sure it is based in truth.

It is hard to use concrete language to explain something so ethereal.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Plenty of NFs are involved in academia. Being a good student or being interested in knowledge for the sheer love of it does not an NT make. However, her intense love of structure and other clues caused me to lean ISTJ. If we are once again leaning toward NF, I have to insist that she's xNFJ, probably INFJ. I sincerely do not see the case for ENFP, and I've noticed at least three or four other ENFPs in this thread expressing similar doubts.

I don't think that any behavior makes you an NT or any certain type, but the fact that some behavior may be very natural to you likely does. So, if you like using your imagination, it doesn't follow that you're an N as this could be a learned trait for you rather than a natural. However, if using your imagination has always been naturally rewarding for you, then indeed you are quite likely an N.

If a person is organized in his or her activities, does it mean that he or she is a J? Not really, Ps could have acquired qualities that come naturally to Js through experience. As an ENP, one only needs to get comfortable using the third function. It does not seem terribly difficult.

Generally I would regard the opinions of other ENFPs or other people as irrelevant. Most people on this forum are concerned with an activity that can be called 'folk typology'. That is, they have some vague idea of what it means to be a certain type, and assume that you just need to have some certain behaviors to be this or that type.

We usually don't know what they mean when they say that somebody is an 'ENFP', or what behaviors they think somebody must have to be an 'ENFP'. Paying attention to the views of these people will only make the scenario even more confusing than it already is. (I am pretty sure that most people here who think they are ENFPs think they have this type because they see themselves as creative, outgoing and friendly and not because they really understand their natural tendencies. That is how it goes with folk typology in most cases anyways)

At the bottom, however, there is a problem that we tend to think that a person simply must BE outgoing for example, to be an E and not simply have a tendency towards being outgoing.

Its quite possible that Little Linguist has all these qualities that we associate with 'J' and 'S' because of her personal experiences rather than because of her type. Until we get around a behavioristic analysis of the matter, we aren't going to make any progress.

As for my views on the matter, I simply see no tendency in her thought patterns that indicate a judgment focus on the external world or on the concrete. The natural focus seems to be on ideas rather than what can be easily observed with the senses. As for the extroverted judging faculty, I simply see no tendency to organize the external world. In this thread we have all sorts of wild and irrelevant information running amock. A person with a genuine J type (that is a person who has a natural tendency to be a J or organize the external world), rather than a person who merely learned J qualities ( like Little Linguist), would not want to make such a disorganized thread. To be a J means to have a natural drive to organize the world. A person like this will want to organize his world in his free-time, granted that he has the full freedom to be true to his or her type. Little Linguist shows no tendency towards this here. Again, I see this because here she has the full freedom to act however she wants to (she is not constrained by any external protocol such as rules or expectations of others that she must meet, nor is she constrained by any internal sanctions such as deep depression or great confusion) and displays perceiving characteristics by simply throwing all sorts of random information around with little ambition to organize it properly.
 

SolitaryWalker

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You're looking to the past to create a rule for your present. As mentioned in this thread many times, you seem to value "normalcy".

Maybe you're ENTJ, but usually people who posses competent Ni can explain it better. I have a hard time seeing you as anything but Te-dom, from your examples anyway.

I don't know what makes you think that Ni helps people explain concepts better. Ni as an intuitive faculty can easily help a person be more creative and independently minded in his or her vision, but I don't see how it could offer clarity and organization of thought that a person needs in order to communicate clearly. Thinking is the function that would be the most useful for the latter task.
 

Thalassa

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I don't think that any behavior makes you an NT or any certain type, but the fact that some behavior may be very natural to you likely does. So, if you like using your imagination, it doesn't follow that you're an N as this could be a learned trait for you rather than a natural. However, if using your imagination has always been naturally rewarding for you, then indeed you are quite likely an N.

If a person is organized in his or her activities, does it mean that he or she is a J? Not really, Ps could have acquired qualities that come naturally to Js through experience. As an ENP, one only needs to get comfortable using the third function. It does not seem terribly difficult.

Generally I would regard the opinions of other ENFPs or other people as irrelevant. Most people on this forum are concerned with an activity that can be called 'folk typology'. That is, they have some vague idea of what it means to be a certain type, and assume that you just need to have some certain behaviors to be this or that type.

We usually don't know what they mean when they say that somebody is an 'ENFP', or what behaviors they think somebody must have to be an 'ENFP'. Paying attention to the views of these people will only make the scenario even more confusing than it already is. (I am pretty sure that most people here who think they are ENFPs think they have this type because they see themselves as creative, outgoing and friendly and not because they really understand their natural tendencies. That is how it goes with folk typology in most cases anyways)

At the bottom, however, there is a problem that we tend to think that a person simply must BE outgoing for example, to be an E and not simply have a tendency towards being outgoing.

Its quite possible that Little Linguist has all these qualities that we associate with 'J' and 'S' because of her personal experiences rather than because of her type. Until we get around a behavioristic analysis of the matter, we aren't going to make any progress.

As for my views on the matter, I simply see no tendency in her thought patterns that indicate a judgment focus on the external world or on the concrete. The natural focus seems to be on ideas rather than what can be easily observed with the senses. As for the extroverted judging faculty, I simply see no tendency to organize the external world. In this thread we have all sorts of wild and irrelevant information running amock. A person with a genuine J type (that is a person who has a natural tendency to be a J or organize the external world), rather than a person who merely learned J qualities ( like Little Linguist), would not want to make such a disorganized thread. To be a J means to have a natural drive to organize the world. A person like this will want to organize his world in his free-time, granted that he has the full freedom to be true to his or her type. Little Linguist shows no tendency towards this here. Again, I see this because here she has the full freedom to act however she wants to (she is not constrained by any external protocol such as rules or expectations of others that she must meet, nor is she constrained by any internal sanctions such as deep depression or great confusion) and displays perceiving characteristics by simply throwing all sorts of random information around with little ambition to organize it properly.

Little Linguist is a "J". Her behavior and opinions over a life-time seem to reflect that, internally and externally. She is a J. People don't "learn" to be Js - my grandfather's wife attempted to make me a J and she failed miserably. Little Linguist is not an ENFP. She very much strikes me as an INFJ in her manner and speech, and STJ in her preoccupations and habits.

If all but one ENFP and an INFP say that Little Linguist is not an NFP (including Little Linguist denying it herself with totally unnecesary vehemence) I'm pretty certain she is NOT an ENFP.
 

OrangeAppled

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I don't know what makes you think that Ni helps people explain concepts better. Ni as an intuitive faculty can easily help a person be more creative and independently minded in his or her vision, but I don't see how it could offer clarity and organization of thought that a person needs in order to communicate clearly. Thinking is the function that would be the most useful for the latter task.

We're not talking about Ni explaining a concept. We're talking about her explaining herself. If she was Ni-aux, I'd expect her to be able to comment on her own inner world. It may not be clear to other people, but I don't think it would amount to an admission of having no idea herself....

Little Linguist said:
Ni: Eh, I don't really know? Seeing patterns in phenomena to figure things out (and...maybe...act...some...day....?) Rich inner world, blah blah blah - eh, who am I kidding? I have no idea.
 

Little Linguist

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Solitary,

In my writing, I believe I am very organized. However, I will not ignore issues others bring up.

Orange,

Yes, I do admit an inadequacy to properly explain Ni. Two reasons could be the cause: I do not use it. Or I use it unconsciously and cannot explain it.

Marmelade,

I do not know.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Little Linguist is a "J". Her behavior and opinions over a life-time seem to reflect that, internally and externally. She is a J. People don't "learn" to be Js - my grandfather's wife attempted to make me a J and she failed miserably. Little Linguist is not an ENFP. She very much strikes me as an INFJ in her manner and speech, and STJ in her preoccupations and habits..

Most people have a hard time learning to be organized (J), yet some under certain circumstances manage to make it. For example people who were forced to go to the army.

If all but one ENFP and an INFP say that Little Linguist is not an NFP (including Little Linguist denying it herself with totally unnecesary vehemence) I'm pretty certain she is NOT an ENFP.

You're free to believe in whatever you'd like but what others say amounts to no more than mere folk typology. We don't even know that the people you're talking about are ENFPs or INFPs or that they have any idea of what a type is to begin with.

We're not talking about Ni explaining a concept. We're talking about her explaining herself. If she was Ni-aux, I'd expect her to be able to comment on her own inner world. It may not be clear to other people, but I don't think it would amount to an admission of having no idea herself....

A lot of people who use Ni dont even know that Ni is one of their natural preferences as they really are that confused by folk typology. Besides the conceptual muddle that surrounds the typical typological discussions, there is another reason why many Ni people don't know their true type. Quite a few of them find that their thoughts are so abstract and divorced from reality, that they could never make any sense of what is going on in their minds. Since they cannot understand what their thoughts are like, they struggle to even begin describing their inner life to others. For that reason they often won't even try to explain their views to others, and will find describing somethign so complex, subjective and abstract as their inner life to be terribly daunting.
 

OrangeAppled

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I would personally embrace either one once it has been proven as truth. I have no bias one way or another, and I would appreciate being an S-type as much as an N. However, we have to make sure it is based in truth.

It is hard to use concrete language to explain something so ethereal.

You seem to seek hard evidence for truth about your internal self and that further supports my opinion that you are Te-dom. There's a distrust of the Fi function.

I'd say that...

Ni sees the past and its patterns and creates something new from it, which ultimately makes it future focused and visionary. It seems to be less of a step-by-step thought process than a sudden awareness. Probably why Ni-doms often cannot explain how they came to a conclusion.

Si sees the past as a guide and tries to maintain that standard in the present as it trusts "tried and true". I think it's also an awareness more than a line of reasoning. Si-doms tend to use "that's just how it is" when pushed for explanations on why you should do it the same way as always.

Does either ring a bell?
 

Lauren Ashley

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LL, listen to SolitaryWalker, he knows what he is talking about. You're mentally disorganized, I strongly believe you are not a J. You've just learned J habits. A person's true tendencies is not seen in their behavior, despite what other people on this forum seem to think. Even if that were so, there is nothing J about this craziness of a thread (no offense).

And the Te: ENFP with well developed Te and possibly underdeveloped Fi. Does anyone else not see that, it seems so obvious...? Sure, she may not be like the archetypal ENFP or other ENFPs you may know, but the preferences are lining up with E, N, F, and P.
 

Little Linguist

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*ponders*

If I had to choose between Ni and Si, I'd choose...um...neither? LOL no. It depends on the situation. I'd say Ni would be more familiar, but Si is also useful.

YOU KNOW WHAT MY PROBLEM IS???

Everyone is talking in all these absolutes! I'm NOT an absolute person! Look at my preferences - they are all barely there. Slightly thinking here, slightly directive there....motive here, pragmatic there....I can't say I prefer being logical or emotive. I'm both. I can't say I like being practical or abstract. I'm both. I can't say I like being directive or initiating....I am both.

I have conflicting traits that make it difficult to type. That's why I need your help.
 

Tigerlily

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stop asking strangers to analyze you and you'll be a lot happier. :D

edit: i went through a similar thing a few years ago. its called self discovery and it's a lifelong thing. it just gets easier to deal with as you grow older.
 

Little Linguist

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stop asking strangers to analyze you and you'll be a lot happier. :D

edit: i went through a similar thing a few years ago. its called self discovery and it's a lifelong thing. it just gets easier to deal with as you grow older.

I hope it gets easier, because this is a royal pain in the...yeah...

I wish growing and developing were easier.
 

SolitaryWalker

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*ponders*

If I had to choose between Ni and Si, I'd choose...um...neither? LOL no. It depends on the situation. I'd say Ni would be more familiar, but Si is also useful.

YOU KNOW WHAT MY PROBLEM IS???

Everyone is talking in all these absolutes! I'm NOT an absolute person! Look at my preferences - they are all barely there. Slightly thinking here, slightly directive there....motive here, pragmatic there....I can't say I prefer being logical or emotive. I'm both. I can't say I like being practical or abstract. I'm both. I can't say I like being directive or initiating....I am both.

I have conflicting traits that make it difficult to type. That's why I need your help.

Types are absolutes, yet personalities are not. Good luck to you if you wish to keep on trying to describe your personality in typological terms. Typology can only tell you about some of the basic tendencies of thought that you have. The link between the many qualities of character that you have and your type is weak. For that reason, I don't think you can discover what your type is by trying to understand what your personality qualities are. You won't be able to easily deduce former from the latter because many qualities that you have are a result fo your personal experiences and qualities unique to your personality rather than a result of your type.

I think by now I suggest you stop wasting your time. Or for the very least, read Jung's Psychological Types. Maybe that will change your method of doing typology from personality-focused to unconscious disposition focused. This is obviously necessary because what you're doing will never work. This thread has gone over 200 posts and you still don't know what your type is. I bet that whatever conclusions you arrive at here could be changed in a month as our personalities are that easily altered by our circumstances. For that reason it just does not make any sense to establish your type on the basis of such fleeting qualities.
 

Little Linguist

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Types are absolutes, yet personalities are not. Good luck to you if you wish to keep on trying to describe your personality in typological terms. Typology can only tell you about some of the basic tendencies of thought that you have. The link between the many qualities of character that you have and your type is weak. For that reason, I don't think you can discover what your type is by trying to understand what your personality qualities are. You won't be able to easily deduce former from the latter because many qualities that you have are a result fo your personal experiences and qualities unique to your personality rather than a result of your type.

I think by now I suggest you stop wasting your time. Or for the very least, read Jung's Psychological Types. Maybe that will change your method of doing typology from personality-focused to unconscious disposition focused.

Thank you for all your input. It really helped, and I think you may be right. I just need to think about everything for a while.
 

VagrantFarce

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http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ality-matrices/22746-inferior-projection.html
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ality-matrices/22746-inferior-projection.html
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ality-matrices/22746-inferior-projection.html

:steam:

p.s.:

Ni and Se said:
Introverted Intuition is a way of orienting yourself to your environment by consciously attending to the expected interpretations of things. In this manner of orientation, you hold agnostic about whether those interpretations are true. You view them as expected interpretations, nothing more. Your world is a world of expected interpretations defined by others; you navigate through those interpretations and use them without regard to whether they're true, always keeping the interpretations separate in your mind from the actual objects.

For example, whereas from an Extraverted Sensation perspective, you might feel very impressed upon meeting a man wearing a fancy Italian suit (signs call forth a natural response and need no interpretation); from an Ni perspective, you would consciously say to yourself that he's wearing an Italian suit and this is supposed to make you think he's wealthy or upper-class or really has his act together or something like that, and therefore is supposed to make you feel impressed (signs and what they mean are connected only arbitrarily). Whether he really does have his act together is a matter upon which you reserve judgement. Consequently you don't feel impressed. You merely note the expected interpretation as no less a part of your environment than the suit itself.

Without knowing the expected interpretations of a system--the way signs are interpreted within that system, and the expected responses that make the system work--you can't get oriented via Ni. The expected interpretations must be stabilized and clear to you. Then you can comment from an outside perspective, or see ways to respond to the signs that violate the system's assumptions, or simply know how to operate the thing. First you have to get "outside" it, then you can deal with it. The process of "getting outside it" can take a long time. As you identify expected interpretations, you find yourself uncovering ever more and more hidden assumptions, and you feel the need to distance yourself from those, too, before you get your hands dirty or draw a conclusion.

Ne and Si said:
Extraverted Intuition (Ne) is the attitude that the unknown is filled with wonderful things. To make use of them, you must be flexible in your goals. If you try to set things up so that only something known to be good can happen, you close your eyes to the zillions of opportunities that you can't know or define in terms of what you know now. As more of the unknown becomes clear, the more it changes your understanding of the (currently) known.

To live, then, you need to continuously welcome the unknown, by always being ready to adjust in unanticipatable ways. What seems like a mistake is not a mistake when viewed in a larger pattern--and it's your job to find that larger pattern.

(Compare Introverted Sensation, which leads to the exact opposite attitude toward the unknown. Ne says to anchor yourself nowhere, so you can continuously adapt to exploit unknown opportunities; Si says to anchor yourself firmly to what matters regardless of change, in order to keep out the unknown and its attendant, unknowable risks.)

You can only have one of these pairs, and they're rather different from each other, so hopefully you can understand the difference and maybe see yourself in the descriptions. :)
 

Little Linguist

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http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ality-matrices/22746-inferior-projection.html
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ality-matrices/22746-inferior-projection.html
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ality-matrices/22746-inferior-projection.html

:steam:

p.s.:

You can only have one of these pairs, and they're rather different from each other, so hopefully you can understand the difference and maybe see yourself in the descriptions. :)

"...immobility never lasts, the earth never sits still. If you just sit in one place, how could you possibly go anywhere?"

"...such a brutal, sensate landscape. why do people settle for animalistic immediacy? I'm not an animal, that's for sure. I'll conceive my own reality, on my own terms."

Although I do both, I guess the second is more accurate. (Ne, Si)
 
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