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Type me!

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
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sx/so

Reaction:

When I have a goal/When I teach/In the lead: Direct/Initiate
When I have a goal and am not in the lead: Inform/Initiate
When I am helping someone: Inform (or direct)/Initiate
When I am chilling out: Inform (or direct)/Respond

As a child-mid-20s: abstract, pragmatic
Now: abstract, affiliative (more so than before, anyway)

As a child-mid-20s: Related to Keirsey's rational
Now: Relate to Keirsey's idealist
 

VagrantFarce

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do any of those combinations feel more "natural" than the others? are there certain ways of interacting that you've had to learn over the years (e.g. learning to be patient, trying not to be too direct, learning to assert yourself etc.)?
 

Little Linguist

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do any of those combinations feel more "natural" than the others? are there certain ways of interacting that you've had to learn over the years (e.g. learning to be patient, trying not to be too direct, learning to assert yourself etc.)?

When I was younger I was very impatient, fiercely independent (almost to a fault), and quite fearful about asserting myself. Over time, I have learned to temper my independence and ask for help when needed because that is just more effective in the long run and to assert myself quite well. However, I still haven't learned to be patient, so if you know any way to sort of hurry along the process, please let me know.
 

Little Linguist

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1w2

Absolutely, positively, 100% sure about this. Just read the description. Totally, completely, totally me.

This, and I mean, this:

One with a two wing


General description

Average 1/2 combines the dry, rational, practical concerns of type one with the wet, other-directedness of two. The emotional repression of one is somewhat balanced by the self-defined goodness and desire-to-please of two. 1/2s typically care more about appearance than 1/9, and because of their oneish perfectionism they often dress immaculately. The pride from their two-wing makes them more visibly sensitive to criticism than 1/9, although both subtypes are internally very hard on themselves. Unlike 2/1, they would usually rather do the right thing than please someone else, although they want to do both if possible.


Balanced and transcendent states

Healthy 1/2s begin to loosen up somewhat, becoming able to let go of their righteous judgements. They begin to allow for the possibility that their views might not be entirely accurate. Their other-directed corrections soften up and actually become helpful rather than intrusive. They become able to see the difference between proud perfectionism and healthy tolerance of differences.

When 1/2s attain spiritual opening, they can become teachers of the highest order. One integrates to seven, bringing in joy and enthusiasm, while two integrates to four, replacing selfish manipulation with genuine compassionate concern for others. Deep oneish wisdom combines with twoish loving generosity for an intensely personal kind of guidance, even when they are addressing large groups. Somehow advanced 1/2s seem to know exactly what is needed for maximum teaching value in any situation. They teach by asking the right questions, gently guiding the student to deeper insights.


Unbalanced and unhealthy states

Unhealthy 1/2s run into problems when twoish pride interacts with oneish perfectionism. A tremendous inner conflict rages between the two-wing that says "I am a good, generous person" and the oneish view that sees every tiny error as a sign of fundamental worthlessness. One disintegrates to four, where self-critical introspection creates a spiral of hopelessness, while two disintegrates to eight, so that when the heavily repressed anger erupts it does so in sudden (but usually very short) fits of hyper-critical rage, sometimes accompanied by overt violence. Naturally these violent fits then become more food for the self-judgment spiral, as the 1/2 falls into guilty remorse.

In the worst cases, repressed oneish anger and hostile twoish pride combine, creating intense sessions of wrenching, hand-wringing despair. If my anger is not expressed towards others, then it is directed at myself. I am not good enough if I cannot meet my own standards. I must work harder and harder, or I will fail my own increasingly difficult self-tests. Self-punishment is necessary, in the form of grueling work days, endless tormented repetitions of not-quite perfect tasks, and every kind of refusal to experience any sort of pleasure. Suicide is possible.


Physical appearance

Most 1/2s take care to appear neat, clean, and orderly. Hair is carefully clipped, especially facial hair (if any) and clothing is just so. Beards are almost always partial, shaved in places for a distinguished effect. Physically they are usually on the thin side, although of course there are exceptions. They hold their heads high. Sometimes it seems as if they are looking down their noses at the world. When they smile there might be a condescending feel. Maybe the eyebrows are lifted perpetually into points, showing a judgmental quality.


Callings

Some 1/2s find work that expresses an urge to help other people become perfect. Teachers of all kinds, but particularly languages, humanities, science, and medicine. Doctors, dentists, physicians, surgeons, health counsellors. Dieticians, tour guides, advice columnists. Another common direction is towards discriminating legal wisdom. Court judges, prosecuting attorneys, criminal analysts, and legislators. A 1/2 might find a way to champion a cause. Environmental crusaders, public safety specialists, regulators of morals and ethics, religious leaders, charismatic preachers. There are 1/2 ship captains, superheroes, actors, and mathematicians. Of course, 1/2s can also be found doing many other kinds of work.
 

VagrantFarce

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Which of these sounds more accurate?

Theme is mentoring, leading people to achieve their potential and become more of who they are. Talents lie in empathizing with profound interpersonal insight and in influencing others to learn, grow, and develop. Lead using their exceptional communication skills, enthusiasm, and warmth to gain cooperation toward meeting the ideals they hold for the individual or the organization. Catalysts who draw out the best in others. Thrive on empathic connections. Frequently called on to help others with personal problems.

Theme is directing and mobilizing. Talents lie in developing policy, establishing plans, coordinating and sequencing events, and implementing strategy. Excel at directing others in reaching the goals dictated by their strong vision of the organization. Thrive on marshaling forces to get plans into action. Natural organization builders and almost always find themselves taking charge in ineffective situations. Enjoy creating efficiently structured systems and setting priorities to achieve goals.

[edit]also did you look at this yet?

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ality-matrices/22746-inferior-projection.html

[edit2] why were you unassertive when you were young?
 

Little Linguist

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Which of these sounds more accurate?

Mentoring is slightly more than the other one, but I can do both.

also did you look at this yet?

I will check it out and get back to you.


why were you unassertive when you were young?

I was rather shy. That changed over time.
 

Little Linguist

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Ygolo helped me a lot (Thank you!) and we found out the following:

1. abstract v. concrete (strongest preference)

2. affiliative v. pragmatic (2nd strongest preference)

3. thinking v. feeling; structure v. motive (weakest preferences)

4. On a scale of -13 to 13, I scored 2 on directing.

5. On a scale of -13 to 13, I scored 1 1/2 initiating.

6. I scored zero preference on control v. movement. To me, they are not a dichotomy.

According to Ygolo that leads us to believe that I am very slightly an In-Charge type.
 

VagrantFarce

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Well, you seem to be an NJ at the very least :) Just need to figure out whether you're Te or Fe. Figuring out your Inferior Function can really help in determining whether you're I or E as well.
 

Little Linguist

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Well, you seem to be an NJ at the very least :)

Agreed.

If my Fe wasn't so god-awful I'd say ENFJ....but no way. Even Pinky said no way thousands of times...INFJ doesn't make sense. Every NT I know says no way with NTJ. GAHHHH!!!
 

Chloe

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I like this theory about weird Enneagram and MBTI combinations

(not that i say you have one, if you're E1 and TJ, it's good combo.)

but maybe something similar is reason for your confusion

'Paula' is an ENFP, but is typed by Wyman as an Enneagram 'One', which we have characterized as a strong 'J' type that statistically appears to have a greater concentration of ISTJs (the exact opposite of the ENFP) than any other Enneagram type. 'Korey' is an ESFP, but is typed by Wyman as an Enneagram Eight (to Michael Huber's consternation, I might add). Indeed, Wyman herself, an INFJ, self-identifies as an Enneagram 'Three' (which, according to Pat and I, is best characterized by the ESTP - the diametrical opposite of the INFJ!).

Wyman seems not to be unaware of the fact that these cases, including her own, appear to express a conflict of some sort. About her client, 'Paula', Wyman says:


The qualities of an ENFP are rather different from that of the Enneagram One. The ENFP is a free spirit, creative, spontaneous, insightful, disorganized, dramatic, fun-loving, imaginative, non-conforming and definitely not neat. Paula recognized that part of herself almost like someone from her distant past. The ENFP certainly had not been fully present in her life for as long as she could remember. The qualities of the One and the ENFP were at war with each other within her with the One winning hands down.
 

Little Linguist

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ENXJ fits more, both in terms of the first article and the second article. The second article is quite telling. The third confuses me.

I like this theory about weird Enneagram and MBTI combinations

(not that i say you have one, if you're E1 and TJ, it's good combo.)

but maybe something similar is reason for your confusion

Another possibility, true.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Linguistics is not taught until the third or fourth year of college, and then only to majors. The highest level of literary analysis and comparitive literature (between languages) is only taught at post-graduate level.

I think that you are going off topic now. The academic matters regarding Linguistics are profoundly different from the language notions we have been discussing. We have been discussing the study of grammar and how easily a person can learn to communicate with formidable grammar. We have also discussed poetry and novel writing.

The work that Linguists do is scientific in nature and highly systematic. They make abstract theoretical models and endeavor to test them out by empirical means. Their work is a cross between Psychology and Philosophy, it truly has little to do with grammar, writing poetry or writing novels. Being a good poet or novelist, or writing with impeccable grammar will not make you a good linguist. To be a good linguist, you need to be a careful and a systematic thinker. Hence, a mathematician is more likely to excell at linguistics than a novelist.

With regard to literary analysis, that too has little to do with writing novels and poetry. You'd need one skill to write a heart-moving poem and a whole another skillset to be able to analyze the poem and explain exactly what the author may be talking about. Analysis of literature is systematic in nature, yet writing poetry and novels is intuitive.






Lots of people fail miserably at literary analysis, though. Still more are bad story tellers, as evidenced by dime-store novels and B movies. To postulate that people who excel at linguistics and writing are riding on instinct is preposterous. .

You're absolutely right, people who excell at linguistics and literary analysis have excellent analytical abilities. People who excel at writing poetry and novels are indeed riding on instincts. This does not mean that they do not think analytically at all, but merely that they rely on intuitive thought much more than they rely on analytical thought.
 

Tigerlily

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Stay in your boxes!!!!!!!!! There are rules to be followed here!
:laugh: for realz!!!!

did it ever occur to you that it's healthier to not be an archetypal type? perhaps you're just a well rounded person that can adapt to whatever situation you're thrown into.
 

cascadeco

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:laugh: for realz!!!!

did it ever occur to you that it's healthier to not be an archetypal type? perhaps you're just a well rounded person that can adapt to whatever situation you're thrown into.

:yes:

Little Linguist, I don't have an opinion. I sometimes/often think mbti in essence IS about the stereotypes, and reading into it further can become counterproductive - 'Which Stereotype Fits You Best?', and which stereotype would others place you in - and although some people fit the archetype/type descriptions to a T, the majority of people don't, which is why a lot of people don't easily identify with one and only one type. After all, it's not like we're genetically born with an E vs. I gene, N vs. S gene, etc etc, we simply have personality preferences/'comfort zones' that can be categorized in various ways, when comparing ourselves to others who hold the same general traits or who are quite opposed to our natural inclinations. It's simply a categorical system, and as such, you just throw yourself into which ever one makes the most sense (knowing you're still going to have your own idiosyncracies/developed skills that you aren't 'supposed' to have as that type), and there you have it.
 

Little Linguist

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i guess ESTJs would accept you?

Not quite sure, actually. Probably not? :huh: I wonder if anyone would? :doh:

I think that you are going off topic now. The academic matters regarding Linguistics are profoundly different from the language notions we have been discussing. We have been discussing the study of grammar and how easily a person can learn to communicate with formidable grammar. We have also discussed poetry and novel writing.

The work that Linguists do is scientific in nature and highly systematic. They make abstract theoretical models and endeavor to test them out by empirical means. Their work is a cross between Psychology and Philosophy, it truly has little to do with grammar, writing poetry or writing novels. Being a good poet or novelist, or writing with impeccable grammar will not make you a good linguist. To be a good linguist, you need to be a careful and a systematic thinker. Hence, a mathematician is more likely to excell at linguistics than a novelist.

With regard to literary analysis, that too has little to do with writing novels and poetry. You'd need one skill to write a heart-moving poem and a whole another skillset to be able to analyze the poem and explain exactly what the author may be talking about. Analysis of literature is systematic in nature, yet writing poetry and novels is intuitive.

You're absolutely right, people who excell at linguistics and literary analysis have excellent analytical abilities. People who excel at writing poetry and novels are indeed riding on instincts. This does not mean that they do not think analytically at all, but merely that they rely on intuitive thought much more than they rely on analytical thought.

I know one thing: I will never be a good author because everything I write (fiction, etc.) sounds like some kind of academic work - too structured and unnatural in the telling. If you need good grammar or flow, give me your work, but if you need a good editor for a children's story, forget it.

Sadly, I'm not quite sure that is relevant, but I want to clarify that I've always been miserable at creative writing, to my dismay.

I've been saying you're NTJ. Do I not count? :puppy_dog_eyes:

I'm sorry Liquid, of course you did, and yes, you do count! :hug: Ygolo also mentioned the possibility that I might be xNTJ. So did INTJMom (INTJ). *thinking* Oh, yes, Babylon Candle said I might be, too, or ENFJ. *thinking again* Well, if I forgot any of you NTs who said I was NTJ, it's not deliberate; I'm just a forgetful person.

:laugh: for realz!!!!

did it ever occur to you that it's healthier to not be an archetypal type? perhaps you're just a well rounded person that can adapt to whatever situation you're thrown into.

You know what? You may be onto something there. It just bothers me that I don't seem to 'fit right' and have a type like everyone else. My husband tells me, "That's because you're not like everyone else. I have never met anyone quite like you before. There are very few people with your combination of traits." I guess that's what fascinates him (INTP) so much: That I'm so...well...strange. He's also a bit strange. Both his Ti and Fi are off the charts, followed by extremely strong Ne. He's your INtP.
 

Little Linguist

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:yes:

Little Linguist, I don't have an opinion. I sometimes/often think mbti in essence IS about the stereotypes, and reading into it further can become counterproductive - 'Which Stereotype Fits You Best?', and which stereotype would others place you in - and although some people fit the archetype/type descriptions to a T, the majority of people don't, which is why a lot of people don't easily identify with one and only one type. After all, it's not like we're genetically born with an E vs. I gene, N vs. S gene, etc etc, we simply have personality preferences/'comfort zones' that can be categorized in various ways, when comparing ourselves to others who hold the same general traits or who are quite opposed to our natural inclinations. It's simply a categorical system, and as such, you just throw yourself into which ever one makes the most sense (knowing you're still going to have your own idiosyncracies/developed skills that you aren't 'supposed' to have as that type), and there you have it.

You're so right. I wish I could solve this and get it over with. I have the 17th type along with Babylon Candle, who seems to be having the exact same dilemma as me right now. (YAY for someone who is like me! Wait, do I want to wish that on anyone?)
 
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