Type me!

[Tyrant]

Jeffster doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Yeah, once again we're talking past each other. You have your mind made up that something called "Fe dominant" is necessary for one to show in message board posts in order for that person to most closely identify with an ENFJ personality type. I disagree with that, so I guess there's nothing more to say on the matter.

Right... you're following your own system or whatever you're doing. Do that -- great. I'll make my own suggestions to LL, and you can make yours. At the end of the day, the only one that knows LL's mind is LL. I'm just offering help since she asked.

 

[Jeffster]

Jeffster doesn't know what he's talking about.

On the contrary, I seem to be the ONLY one who knows what I'm talking about.

 

[simulatedworld]

Yeah, once again we're talking past each other. You have your mind made up that something called "Fe dominant" is necessary for one to show in message board posts in order for that person to most closely identify with an ENFJ personality type. I disagree with that, so I guess there's nothing more to say on the matter.

You do realize Myers and Briggs invented their personality categories based directly on Jung's conceptions of dominant and auxiliary functions, right?

 

[JustHer]

On the contrary, I seem to be the ONLY one who knows what I'm talking about.

LOL good line.

Not very ISFPish though =/

 

[Jeffster]

You do realize Myers and Briggs invented their personality categories based directly on Jung's conceptions of dominant and auxiliary functions, right?

Yes, I do. You do realize that most people who come to a conclusion about their own personality type, including those who take the official MBTI, do not come to that conclusion based on determining dominant and auxiliary functions, right?

LOL good line.

Not very ISFPish though =/

Well, I'm probably not an ISFP. Someone go search through all my posts and see how much "Fi dominant" there is and maybe we can discover the truth.

 

[Jaguar]

nothing is solved, but then again nothing matters. not here, not now, not ever.

I am moved to tears by your depth. The angels are weeping with me.

 

[Little Linguist]

What??? I don't use Fe???

Feeling people make decisions based on feelings, so the Extraverted Feeling function allows a person to adjust their behavior to the needs of others. Is it the ability to relate and the desire to connect with others with warmth and consideration. It draws others out and responds to expressed or unexpressed needs.

I use Fe every fucking day. Like, all the time. I just don't use it on here because my Fe gets tired and wants a break once in a while. So I do wild and crazy Ne/Se shit. What's the big mystery?

*sigh*

Thank you Jeffy. I admire you. You stand up for your shit, and you are the one person who actually breaks stuff down instead of building stuff up and making it ultra-complicated.

Thank you to everyone who is putting up with my learning process, that is overly extraverted. I know I can be a royal pain in the woohoo.

 

[Venom]

You should take your own advice. She said Ne, Ni, Fe, Fi were the highest. And I saw her cognitive functions results; those were all pretty much equal. Also, you apparently missed the part where I said "Actions speak louder than words." I've been going through all her old posts...nothing suggests Fe dominant since the day she signed up here.

Yeah, once again we're talking past each other. You have your mind made up that something called "Fe dominant" is necessary for one to show in message board posts in order for that person to most closely identify with an ENFJ personality type. I disagree with that, so I guess there's nothing more to say on the matter.

Jeffster doesn't know what he's talking about.

Right... you're following your own system or whatever you're doing. Do that -- great. I'll make my own suggestions to LL, and you can make yours. At the end of the day, the only one that knows LL's mind is LL. I'm just offering help since she asked.

On the contrary, I seem to be the ONLY one who knows what I'm talking about.

You do realize Myers and Briggs invented their personality categories based directly on Jung's conceptions of dominant and auxiliary functions, right?

Yes, I do. You do realize that most people who come to a conclusion about their own personality type, including those who take the official MBTI, do not come to that conclusion based on determining dominant and auxiliary functions, right?



Well, I'm probably not an ISFP. Someone go search through all my posts and see how much "Fi dominant" there is and maybe we can discover the truth.

well... Im on jeffsters side here.

--Yes the theory originated with cognitive functions, but the MAP IS NOT THE TERRITORY
--one metaphor method of getting 4 letters may be equal to another metaphor method
--I sense there is some pretentiousness associated with what people expect of the Fe-doms on this board. That pretentiousness expected may actually not be part of Fe, and may be culturally related to what you expect
--many people come online to relax and may put their chief way of dealing with the world to the side
--Fe+Ti can look Te, Ne + Si can look Ni, Fi + Te can look Fe etc ad infinitum. So at the end of the day, its up to her to look into her brain. I think jeffster is doing a fine job of facilitating this.

maybe we all shouldnt get attached to our pet theories of LL, and learn to not take it personally when she rejects it in favor of another?

:gets ready to take cover:

 

[PeaceBaby]

Hi there LL,

How are you - trust you're well, despite banging your head on this issue for the last couple of weeks!

I haven't read all 50 pages of this thread, but have noted your continual exploration of type over this time. And I have skimmed through a number of posts here and there. So I am just going to chime in for a sec in the hopes of adding some clarity in kind.

First, despite the differences I sense between us, we do have much in common. It would take a super long post to prove this to you, so I will ask you to go on faith in that regard rather than me take up this whole page.

Instead I will use the strengths I use best and share with you why I think you are still ENFP. First, I sense it. Ne attuned to your vibe. Your desire for order, perfection, peaceful coexistence; your need to help others, to try to think your way out of this dilemma, to spontaneously express here, so many more I can't count them. I know actually counting them could in itself be sufficiently convincing to you, but I will have to save that for a day when chores aren't pressing.

But as a quick summary - you know, you can be an ENFP and still be driven to get things done, to organize, to be a DOER. I am NFP and I consider myself a doer. I get things done! Clearly you do too.

I think part of the issue is that you are keenly focussed on the language of all the MBTI descriptions you read, hanging on and evaluating each word and phrase of them to see if they resonate with you, if they feel right with you. Remember that mere mortals wrote these descriptions, and just because there's not a 100% fit for you, doesn't make it wrong.

You, my dear, are without a doubt grander in life than the written word could ever attempt to capture, so don't expect to find all your specialness in one of those online generic descriptions.

Let the question rest a while. And sending hugs for whatever type you are, because I know for sure you certainly are a special one!

 

[simulatedworld]

Yes, I do. You do realize that most people who come to a conclusion about their own personality type, including those who take the official MBTI, do not come to that conclusion based on determining dominant and auxiliary functions, right?

So your point is that most people don't understand the system in depth?

Yeah, I think I can definitely agree with that. I'm not sure why you think strength in numbers proves the superiority of ignorance, though.

 

[Thalassa]

This thread makes me feel better about the one I made.

But seriously. ENFP. Ne is driveling all over this shit like chocolate moose on watermelon.

Wow...um, Tater...I thought my goat dancing to an accordian was win, but...

 

[Little Linguist]

That picture is effing nasty. Just saying.

And I still think I'm ENF. J.

And I think PeaceBaby is right. I need a break. You go on analyzing, and I will read it when I have more distance.

 

[Thalassa]

That picture is effing nasty. Just saying.

And I still think I'm ENF. J.

I think you rightly could be...I suggested INFJ about 37 pages ago because I was under the impression that you were an introvert. But ENFJ works too.

Except that ENFJ doesn't use Te.

 

[NewEra]

And I think PeaceBaby is right. I need a break. You go on analyzing, and I will read it when I have more distance.

I was the one who said it first...

You know what would help if you're having trouble typing yourself? I would say get away from MBTI for a while (try a week if it's not difficult), and then come back after this time with an open mind, read the type descriptions, be honest, and type yourself (preferably without using these tests at first).

 

[Jeffster]

So your point is that most people don't understand the system in depth?

Yeah, I think I can definitely agree with that. I'm not sure why you think strength in numbers proves the superiority of ignorance, though.

No, that's not my point at all. My point is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. And even if all cat-skinning dates back to the work of Eldrad The Cat Skinner, Steven Q. Typeguy can teach someone to skin a cat a certain way without that someone knowing anything about Eldrad and everything is still okay.

You have a human being. That human being takes the MBTI, answering questions that determine four sets of preferences. The test results say ENFJ. The description of that type's usual behavior fits. The human being is confident in saying "I am an ENFJ." But, wait! Suzie Q. Junglover comes along and says "I see no evidence of Fe dominance in you. Fe is blahblahblah and you don't do that, you do bluhbluhbluh, which clearly means you are Fi rather than Fe. And I know what I'm talking about, because I understand the system in depth." Human being is confused. He answered the test questions honestly. The descriptions he finds of ENFJ sound more like him than the ENFP ones, yet Suzie and her good friend Ryan W. Functionface are telling him he's wrong.

Is anyone truly right or wrong in this scenario? Does it really matter? It seems to me that it only matters if it's important to Human being. And he already has his answer, so why are Suzy and Ryan trying to muck things up? So they can flex some sort of intellectual arrogance muscles over "knowing the system?" Forgive me if I go with Human to have been right the first time. And tell Suze and Ry that they are only complicating matters and not helping anything.

 

[Venom]

No, that's not my point at all. My point is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. And even if all cat-skinning dates back to the work of Eldrad The Cat Skinner, Steven Q. Typeguy can teach someone to skin a cat a certain way without that someone knowing anything about Eldrad and everything is still okay.

You have a human being. That human being takes the MBTI, answering questions that determine four sets of preferences. The test results say ENFJ. The description of that type's usual behavior fits. The human being is confident in saying "I am an ENFJ." But, wait! Suzie Q. Junglover comes along and says "I see no evidence of Fe dominance in you. Fe is blahblahblah and you don't do that, you do bluhbluhbluh, which clearly means you are Fi rather than Fe. And I know what I'm talking about, because I understand the system in depth." Human being is confused. He answered the test questions honestly. The descriptions he finds of ENFJ sound more like him than the ENFP ones, yet Suzie and her good friend Ryan W. Functionface are telling him he's wrong.

Is anyone truly right or wrong in this scenario? Does it really matter? It seems to me that it only matters if it's important to Human being. And he already has his answer, so why are Suzy and Ryan trying to muck things up? So they can flex some sort of intellectual arrogance muscles over "knowing the system?" Forgive me if I go with Human to have been right the first time. And tell Suze and Ry that they are only complicating matters and not helping anything.

 

[simulatedworld]

No, that's not my point at all. My point is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. And even if all cat-skinning dates back to the work of Eldrad The Cat Skinner, Steven Q. Typeguy can teach someone to skin a cat a certain way without that someone knowing anything about Eldrad and everything is still okay.

You have a human being. That human being takes the MBTI, answering questions that determine four sets of preferences. The test results say ENFJ. The description of that type's usual behavior fits. The human being is confident in saying "I am an ENFJ." But, wait! Suzie Q. Junglover comes along and says "I see no evidence of Fe dominance in you. Fe is blahblahblah and you don't do that, you do bluhbluhbluh, which clearly means you are Fi rather than Fe. And I know what I'm talking about, because I understand the system in depth." Human being is confused. He answered the test questions honestly. The descriptions he finds of ENFJ sound more like him than the ENFP ones, yet Suzie and her good friend Ryan W. Functionface are telling him he's wrong.

Is anyone truly right or wrong in this scenario? Does it really matter? It seems to me that it only matters if it's important to Human being. And he already has his answer, so why are Suzy and Ryan trying to muck things up? So they can flex some sort of intellectual arrogance muscles over "knowing the system?" Forgive me if I go with Human to have been right the first time. And tell Suze and Ry that they are only complicating matters and not helping anything.

Yes Jeffster, it's all for the purpose of flexing intellectual arrogance muscles. We don't actually believe any of the things we're saying here. We just make up fancy terminology and big words because we enjoy making you and others feel stupid. You got us! I guess now we'll have to renounce function theory; turns out it's totally useless. Good work!

 

[Venom]

Yes Jeffster, it's all for the purpose of flexing intellectual arrogance muscles. We don't actually believe any of the things we're saying here. We just make up fancy terminology and big words because we enjoy making you and others feel stupid. You got us! I guess now we'll have to renounce function theory; turns out it's totally useless. Good work!

Way to totally miss the point.

He never said the function theory is necessarily wrong. Even if he did, his main point was that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to draw a map (probably a better analogy) that accurately describes the terrain. The function method has clearly failed with LL, so perhaps its time try some other topography techniques?

 

[simulatedworld]

Way to totally miss the point.

He never said the function theory is necessarily wrong. Even if he did, his main point was that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to draw a map (probably a better analogy) that accurately describes the terrain. The function method has clearly failed with LL, so perhaps its time try some other topography techniques?

Jeffster is constantly on an anti-functions crusade. Not coincidentally, Jeffster likes reminding everyone of how little iNtuition he uses and how he doesn't think most Sensors have strong iNtuitive abilities.

Perhaps if Jeffster exercised a little more iNtuition he would recognize the value in this system that he's already written off as not literal/concrete/S-friendly enough to be useful.

That's like saying, "I stick to Newtonian physics because it's easier and makes more sense to me. I haven't really bothered studying any of the principles behind Einstein's relativity because I think it's really hard and convoluted, so it's meaningless and stupid for anyone to use it."

Well, of course it's meaningless to you if you haven't bothered to learn the necessary background for utilizing it. That doesn't really prove the superiority of a more simplistic system; it just proves that you're too lazy to learn the more complex one. There are many physics situations where Newtonian physics lacks the complexity to explain what's really going on--the fact that you haven't made a serious effort to understand relativity doesn't just magically make Newton's method explain everything in physics to the same degree.

You can chalk this up to "different opinions" all you want, but it doesn't obscure the fact that your uneducated opinions on functions reveal very clearly that you simply don't understand them.

The basic four dichotomy system is useful to a certain degree, but only in terms of categorizing surface behaviors. If you want to discuss deeper internal motivations, you need more than just this.

The funny part to me is that I'm not denouncing Jeffster's system, but he is denouncing mine. I think both methods have uses, and I find it hypocritical that he preaches a message of "yeah dude there's more than one way to do things!" and then turns around and constantly bashes the functional method, as if he's more interested in appearing open and flexible than he is in actually being flexible or open to different ideas.

I used to do typology strictly according to MBTI's four dichotomies. Then I read about functions and discovered that one method is good for basic surface reading, and the other does a much better job of explaining internal motivations. If Jeffster is all about being open to different approaches, why is he the one consistently condemning my approach and refusing to listen to other options?

His argument inevitably boils down to, "I like the MBTI approach because it's easier and doesn't require any intuition." And for some reason he seems to think the fact that he either doesn't have or chooses not to use the skills associated with functional theory invalidates it as a methodology, which is absurd.

But he'll still preach the value of "more than one way to skin a cat", despite his obvious insistence that there's only one way that has any merit. Why do you suppose that is?