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  1. #1
    A Benign Tumor PoprocksAndCoke's Avatar
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    Default ENFJ dominant and secondary functions and INFP tertiary and inferior functions?

    How would this work out? Is it possible? I'm relatively new to cognitive functions, so I apologize in advance if it's a stupid question.
    "In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present." -Francis Bacon

    "No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." -George Chakiris

  2. #2
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    According to the theory, no. Are you sure that what you're talking about is actually Dom-Fe, Aux-Ni, Ter-Si and Inf-Te?
    Hello

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    A Benign Tumor PoprocksAndCoke's Avatar
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    I probably just confused Se with Si and Ti with Te. It's what I related to and got on several tests, but Dominant Fe Secondary Ni Tertiary Se and Inferior Ti makes more sense.
    "In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present." -Francis Bacon

    "No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." -George Chakiris

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    A Benign Tumor PoprocksAndCoke's Avatar
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    Or maybe this explains it:
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Most psychoanalysts say the functions develop like this:

    Dominant
    Auxiliary
    Tertiary
    Inferior
    Shadows (5,6,7,8)

    Lenore Thomson says they develop like:

    Dominant
    Auxiliary
    Shadows (5,6,7,8)
    Tertiary
    Inferior
    "In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present." -Francis Bacon

    "No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." -George Chakiris

  5. #5
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    You can score high on a function, but the tests just tell you your function STRENGTHs and not their uses. Ti will always manifest itself as an inferior in E_FJs, and Se will always be the tertiary for an EN_J.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

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    A Benign Tumor PoprocksAndCoke's Avatar
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    I realize this, BlackCat.
    Any input on Lenore Thomson's theory?
    "In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present." -Francis Bacon

    "No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." -George Chakiris

  7. #7
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoprocksAndCoke View Post
    Any input on Lenore Thomson's theory?
    I was just discussing this on another MBTI forum.

    Initial post from seymour said this:

    Here's how Thomson orders an INFP's functions:

    Order: Fi Ne Ti Se Ni Fe Si Te

    Additionally she breaks them down into right-brained (Fi Ne Se Ti) and left-brained (Ni Fe Si Te). I prefer not to get hung up on those terms, but what she means by right-brained is more in-the-moment and random order, and by left-brained is more one-thing-at-a-time and step-by-step.

    Here's my thoughts on her theory, which discusses it in terms of INFP also.

    Yeah, I agree that this theory doesn't negate the shadow theory. I think Te Si does come out as my shadow when stressed, which is why it is rather ugly/distorted (as most INFPs report).

    Also, with Ti and Se, in this theory, it seems we use them simultaneously with Fi and Ne (?), which may make them harder to distinguish as individual functions. I've always seen it like a scale anyway....something like this:

    Fi <-------> Ti
    Ne <------> Se
    Si <-------> Ni
    Te <-------> Fe

    So this is my initial take on it: an INFP will always prefer Fi, but Ti is the second introverted function choice, and they tend to work simultaneously. INFPs have an order to their values, and INTPs do make ethical evaluations. I suspect an INTP makes more subjective, ethical evaluations than a Fe-dom does.

    However, when Si or Ni are engaged, there must be a focus to use them. For me that makes sense, because again, Si and Te tend to come out when I am stressed and they block out everything else. It's like melt-down prevention mode - Fi and Ne need a brief vacation.

    I also have to make a conscious effort to use Fe and Ni, so they hog the focus when in use also. Fe tends to be at odds with Fi, so it's like I have to suck it up and just do it and ignore Fi telling me it's all total BS.
    So an ENFJ's functions, according to this theory would be:

    Right:
    Fe
    Ni

    Te
    Si

    Left:
    Ne
    Fi
    Se
    Ti


    So, Se and Ti would still be your tertiary and inferior functions, the ones you use when stressed to gain a sense of comfort or control.

    However, the functions you supposedly do not use may actually be more developed, particularly Te and Si for you. Since you'd use them in conjunction with your primary functions, they may get obscured in the process and seem very unconscious, which may make them harder to identify for most people. The dominant functions will be in the driver's seat still.

    On the other hand, you have to really focus when you use your left brain functions, which means they may be more apparent when you do use them, because they are more isolated and deliberate. Being less developed, they tend to come out in an uglier or more awkward manner.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #8
    A Benign Tumor PoprocksAndCoke's Avatar
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    Oh, so it makes sense. By the way, I changed my signature after VagrantFarce said it wasn't possible. I've changed it back after looking around at a few websites.
    I will see if this Fe Ni Te Si/Ne Fi Se Ti makes sense for me.

    Edit: Never mind. I changed it (still the original functions that were there, just in the normal way), to make it less confusing to n00bs like me.
    "In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present." -Francis Bacon

    "No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." -George Chakiris

  9. #9
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I found that understanding Lenore Thomson's model and how it corresponds with the familiar order (popularized by John Beebe) is made better by going back to just four functions that the ego uses in an inner or outer orientation. (Apparently Jung's original conception).
    So the ego chooses a dominant function and orientation, and initially rejects the others. Then, it will choose an auxiliary, relegated to the opposite orientation.

    Looking at it that way (splitting the functions from the orientations and regarding them separately), it then becomes easier to see why when the dominant function doesn't solve the problem, the ego will as an alternative switch to the opposite judgment or perception function, in its dominant orientation (even though this is usually the most rejected function, and on the bottom of Beebe's stack order).
    The brain hemisphere is determined by that dominant function/orientation combination (I/j right; E/j, left, I/p right; E/p left) and maintaining the orientation, but switching to the other function with the same j/p orientation maintains that same hemisphere.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  10. #10

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    From people's tests on here, inferior function is normally is the weakest function not the 4th strongest.

    I was thinking about the tertiary yesterday. It seems a lot of people mistake their tertiaries for being the wrong e/i. Being an NJ you will think predominantly about the fine processes rather than the big picture. If you think "what detail function do I have?", you can easily assume the fine detail you see as a result of working through the processes is a function.

    The function will be the thing you see first up instinctively. Se would in a sense appear as a detailed big picture of what the senses take in, a call to embrace all the tastes, sounds and colours in your surroundings directly. Si would appear as more pondering and exacting the fine details of these things (something you'll do by another method with Fe Ni).

    The same applies to appearing to have Te. The Fe Ni combination will make you aware of fine processes and their importance. The understanding you gain from this is likely to make you aware of the structure and logic in these fine processes also. But you won't normally see this logical structure directly, more as a result of seeing the overall significance of things.

    p.s. this is hypothetical of how things would work if you are ENFJ in the ideal sense and I have a clue what I'm talking about, so might not apply completely.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

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