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  1. #11
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrant View Post
    Can you expand on that further any?
    Basically that,those who I know with dominant Fe, two of my best friends are ESFJ and ENFJ, the effects of whatever is translated through Fe is more lasting, more internalized, given a lot of weight/more trusted. While, for my ESxx friend, although the jumping to conclusions happen, it's quite easy to change her mind about that person and her previous judgement of them is forgotten, given a second round of interaction, if I make a valid case for the other side, etc. Not so with my ESFJ and ENFJ friend, if Fe leads them to a conclusion about someone, even if that conclusion gets changed later [with a hella lot more effort], they hold on to remnants of the initial scraps Fe had fed them. They 'forgive but don't forget'.

    That's very much Fe. You're confusing Fe with being emotional.
    Really, I am? How did you infer that? Feeling something does not equal to being emotional.

  2. #12
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    She sounds ESFP to me, Q.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #13
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrant View Post
    How exactly wouldn't a Fe dominant make such a rash conclusion? Fe is a dynamic element - full blown declaration of someone being evil based on the Fe signals (what this person was saying, how they said it, gestures, etc.) this person was sending, and then her opinion was changed based on the next meeting of this person.
    I would say that Fe doms are more likely to make the conclusion that somebody is evil when they experience someone that does something to bring a great deal of disharmony to the community as a whole...to disrupt the community dynamics in a detrimental way. Seeing as the OP didn't really specify the types of situations in which the friend comes to such a conclusion, I somewhat assumed that Q's friend's standard of evil/good is less quantifiable and more personally based. I could be wrong though. Reading too much into something and calling it evil seems more of an Fi-based judgment than an Fe-based one though. I also attributed this to Fi because of the rest of the OP. She has her "own evaluation of whether something is 'universally' right or wrong", is in touch with how she feels, and is quick to ascribe something as moral or immoral based on what seems like internal justification. All of that seems pretty Fi to me, so I attributed the bit about her being fast to call somebody evil to an Fi thing for the sake of relating that one piece of information to the larger whole.

  4. #14
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    You make a compelling case for ESFP.



    She is not silly at all. At all. She's very composed and lady-like, she was way more adult before her time. She doesn't really have a 'love for people' or wanting to meet new people. It's more like she's open to situations and people being a part of it is a fine and predictable by-product, to her.
    She could be more an introverted ESFP. Why are you so certain that she is ESxx??




    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    What females should and should not do, in a very domineering patriarchal culture. She knows and plays by/to the rules to not bring 'shame' to family, but, she will challenge things that are illogically associated with 'shame', and she slowly has chipped away at that, rather than all at once, in your face.
    That could just be her not wanting to draw attention to herself...something characteristic of introverts in general. Maybe she is more introverted then a a typical ESxx or maybe she is not an E at all? And the bit about not wanting to bring shame to her family, that can be attributed to a lot of things, but it seems more Fe/Si. I don't know.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Tyrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Basically that,those who I know with dominant Fe, two of my best friends are ESFJ and ENFJ, the effects of whatever is translated through Fe is more lasting, more internalized, given a lot of weight/more trusted. While, for my ESxx friend, although the jumping to conclusions happen, it's quite easy to change her mind about that person and her previous judgement of them is forgotten, given a second round of interaction, if I make a valid case for the other side, etc. Not so with my ESFJ and ENFJ friend, if Fe leads them to a conclusion about someone, even if that conclusion gets changed later [with a hella lot more effort], they hold on to remnants of the initial scraps Fe had fed them. They 'forgive but don't forget'.
    I think you're confusing Fi with Fe. Fe is a dynamic (constantly changing and active) element, a judgment based on readily observable facts that hints to a person's internal emotional state and internal processes, the mood of a situation, etc. That's an oversimplification, but you get the idea. These judgments are not set in stone thing, which is evident in this person, because after another meeting with this person, her opinion was changed.

    I think you're confusing Fi with Fe.
    INTP | IEI - INFp

  6. #16
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrant View Post
    I think you're confusing Fi with Fe. Fe is a dynamic (constantly changing and active) element, a judgment based on readily observable facts that hints to a person's internal emotional state and internal processes, the mood of a situation, etc. That's an oversimplification, but you get the idea. These judgments are not set in stone thing, which is evident in this person, because after another meeting with this person, her opinion was changed.

    I think you're confusing Fi with Fe.
    Twice. Noted.

    Two things:

    (1) Are you saying that what I was seeing as the dominant function in my self-tested ESFJ and ENFJ (the one who introduced me to MBTI) friends have been Fi, not Fe, all this time?


    (2) Can you point me to a precise definition of Fi versus Fe whereby it also shows examples of how specific behavioural actions directly correlates to ONLY ONE isolated psychological preference[function] versus another? Which human actions are [only] perscribed to Fi? Which ones Fe?

    These judgments are not set in stone thing, which is evident in this person, because after another meeting with this person, her opinion was changed.
    Compare that to Fi....? Are Fi opinions more set in stone?

    Clear up my utter confusion, please.

  7. #17
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Q, I think you need to apply logic to reason out how feelings work.

    Then all will be clear.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Q, I think you need to apply logic to reason out how feelings work.

    Then all will be clear.


    Gents always first. After you, m'dear.








  9. #19
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    I would say that Fe doms are more likely to make the conclusion that somebody is evil when they experience someone that does something to bring a great deal of disharmony to the community as a whole...to disrupt the community dynamics in a detrimental way. Seeing as the OP didn't really specify the types of situations in which the friend comes to such a conclusion, I somewhat assumed that Q's friend's standard of evil/good is less quantifiable and more personally based. I could be wrong though. Reading too much into something and calling it evil seems more of an Fi-based judgment than an Fe-based one though. I also attributed this to Fi because of the rest of the OP. She has her "own evaluation of whether something is 'universally' right or wrong", is in touch with how she feels, and is quick to ascribe something as moral or immoral based on what seems like internal justification. All of that seems pretty Fi to me, so I attributed the bit about her being fast to call somebody evil to an Fi thing for the sake of relating that one piece of information to the larger whole.
    One of the few times, I can follow a pattern of justification so clearly. Woot!

    Yes, I didn't want to give out too much personal info, even as describing incidents about her. My OP is a main reason you guys, as webz 3rd party, having issues peggin' in terms of function preference.

    I would say that Fe doms are more likely to make the conclusion that somebody is evil when they experience someone that does something to bring a great deal of disharmony to the community as a whole...to disrupt the community dynamics in a detrimental way.
    This. This is her measurement pertaining to:

    standard of evil/good
    The dude was evil because, as I also perceived him, he was a smooth-talker, an oily character, he had 'shifty eyes'/vibe.
    My stance when meeting him: shady character, intriguing for the curiosity, but I ain't trusting what he's saying further than I can throw him.

    Her stance: He's evil. He's got the evil eyes. The way he was interacting with me, her, her sister (ENFP) and another friend of hers [evil dude, le bf]. He was not a good character for the world. He was "evil".

    (she chose the word "evil" obviously to make a dramatic assertioin of the sentiment she wanted to convey about his character)

    It is not however, her motivation, this:
    somewhat assumed that Q's friend's[...] is less quantifiable and more personally based. I could be wrong though. Reading too much into something and calling it evil seems more of an Fi-based judgment than an Fe-based one though. I also attributed this to Fi because of the rest of the OP.
    She again doesn't have that personal investment in this dude except that he disrupts her immediate associated environment's harmony (e.g., a friend of hers is dating the ).


    Appropo, a convo b/w ESxx and the friend who's dating the dude after my ESxx told her friend, in nicer terms, that he was rude:

    Friend [a crazy type, ESFP]: Why are you nervous and insecure around him?

    ESxx: Wait. What? Nervous? Yes, I may be nervous around him in that as your friend, I want to make a good impression as this is a person you're dating, is important to you. But, insecure?? HELL. FUCKING. NO. What do I have to be insecure to him for and who the hell is he to me?

    Friend: Well...well...it's just, I would never say anything bad about you guys to him. And I haven't done that. So, why would he be rude to you guys when he's meeting you all for the first time?

    ESxx: You haven't told him anything about us?** Yeah right. At the end of the day, you're dating him, not us, I'm just letting you know, as a character, I found him rude, cuz you asked my opinion of what I thought of him. He was not just rude to me, but Q, and my sis.

    ** MY ESxx called that out correctly as crazy ESFP had slipped out earlier that she tells him x, y, z about us.


    She has her "own evaluation of whether something is 'universally' right or wrong",
    More like if X is done to ANYONE, they would FEEL like crap-Y, so a person shouldn't do X if they don't expect X back.

    is in touch with how she feels, and is quick to ascribe something as moral or immoral based on what seems like internal justification.
    This is where this point of my OP, I think is relevant:
    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    - We both arrive at the same conclusion about what to do/a person's action, but, it seems I give 'words' to why a to b to c, to which she responds, "YES! EXACTLY. I couldn't exactly describe why but yes, THAT is why!" I find a lot more subtle things that she misses to bring in as evidence, while she uses an in-the-moment example. I think it's our shared respect for the process of Ti.
    I can always figure out her process of rationalization and it makes practical sense at the end. [and, I'm not very forgiving to the illogical].

    It's just that she calls/voices the emotional spark that a contradiction to social dealings evokes faster than she does the justification for it. Although, the justification is always there, given X, Y, Z incident that the person did. It's never attached to her internalized perception as it is to things the people actually do and how that affects all these things. Outward. It's just the voice that's first heard, as a reaction is seemingly 'conclusive' [He's evil]. But, if you ask her to explain herself, her thoughts, the reasoing seems a more global consideration.

    Hence, just as easy it is for her emotion to spark, it cools down, cuz she reflects more on the gut conclusion she reached, and works out the rationalization. Which, if we are bouncing off each other, I voice the rationalization faster, on her behalf, than she does. She has trouble saying it in words.


    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    She could be more an introverted ESFP.
    I was JUST going to say this. I had a talk with her, and asked her a few questions. Will post in next post. But, yeah, she's eSxx.

    Why are you so certain that she is ESxx??
    The S I'm confident.


    That could just be her not wanting to draw attention to herself...something characteristic of introverts in general. Maybe she is more introverted then a a typical ESxx or maybe she is not an E at all? And the bit about not wanting to bring shame to her family, that can be attributed to a lot of things, but it seems more Fe/Si. I don't know.
    YES. again. read my mind.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Just met up with her, asked her a few questions, here are her answers.

    [I have tried explaining MBTI to her before, too much 'theory' blah blah for her, hence, no real interest]

    I used people in her life as comparison of a trait/preference.

    Her ISTJ bf and herself. Her to her ENFP sister.

    He needs a lot more alone time, thoughts to himself, internal than her. But, she's not as much as her sister. She said she can be like her ISTJ bf, where friends think they're quiet but NEVER 'as bad' as her ISTJ.

    = e versus E?

    *~*

    Her ENFP sister versus her.

    [me: what are your 3 main personality clashes b/w you and your sister?]

    Her: Sis is more 'head in clouds'.

    [me: here-and-now versus possibilities?]

    Her: Sis more possibilities, I'm definitely here and now [practical, way, way more practical than ENFP sis of hers]. Her sister also has a great imagination of abstraction which she knows she doesn't, in the way her sis does. The more conceptual, abstract. "My [ENFP] sis used to talk to the walls as a kid. She thought they were her friends, probably."

    [me: I did that too]

    Her: I know.

    = S not N?
    *~*
    My INTJ bf [very, very J] and her, ESxx. Her ENFP sister versus her.

    [me: would you say you're more like [INTJ] in that you like to make a decision that works for the moment, and move on to the next? Or are you more the type open to possibilities, seeing what other things are associated with it? You know, like your [ENFP sis] is?]

    Her: Yeah, no, no way am I like [INTJ], I am def. similar to [ENFP] in that we're pretty open minded, but, I think we're open-minded about wayy different things. Hers are rarely set in reality.

    = P, not J? I think her P is actually p, too.

    ****
    Didn't get a chance to ask her about the T/F. I was waiting to see what kind of questions/ways I could phrase to figure out T/F, esp. diff. b/w her preference of F [Fi versus Fe]. Suggestions?

    {as illustrated, when I use concrete comparable stuff, she wants to engage/likes to in MBTI-derived talk. It has to be applicable. Give examples of people we know, illustrate the dichotomies, although, I wish I could easier figure out how to ask questions that taps into functions more than the 4 dichotomies}

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