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  1. #11
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I know an ISTJ who sounds like that. He is rather dry and sarcastic, but doesn't get my sense of humor (thinks I'm being serious...).
    Exactly... ><;; It can be pretty frustrating because I find my ISTJ boyfriend's sense of humor very funny (sometimes dry and sarcastic, but often also very playful - good influence of his ENTP and INTP best friends ), but he doesn't seem to get my jokes! It's getting a little better over time, but it still happens that I'll jokingly tease him and he'll take it seriously and feel offended. (In fact he takes everything in life seriously, so it's no wonder that since he hasn't learned to detect my jokes yet, he can't recognize them as jokes... But it can REALLY suck ><) It probably depends on the individual though, because my ISTJ female friend is very flexible in this aspect and can adjust to Ne humor very, very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Most ISTJs (especially mature ones) I know seem "nice" because they have a strong sense of duty and appropriateness. Fe's niceness is almost enveloping, like a hug turned into a strangle-hold
    Yeah, this is also true. My bf tries to wear this very "polite" face (uhm... "tries" is the right word here) when he finds himself in an environment where it's needed, or among people he doesn't know well. The ISTJ friend was also striving to appear extremely "polite" most of her teenage years, but funnily enough she got tired of it in the end and now she's become infinitely sarcastic, brutally honest and totally charming. For ISFJs, this niceness is not a "face", it's the real thing.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post
    I was wondering, have you ever considered yourself being an INFP instead of INTP? I might be mistaken, but I get a certain INFP-ISTJ vibe out of your story. The last paragraph I could have written myself a few months ago ><;; Perhaps it's just my imagination, but if I were you I would look more into the functions, as others here already advised you
    I've gone a bit around and around about where I fit. For a while I was wavering between INTP/INTJ. I decided INTJ was out from the descriptions and the order of the functions and for one thing it had all this blah about "Natural Leader" and that kind of thing, which isn't so much me, though I do seem to be able to get along with most anyone.

    When I looked at the functional order for INTP and saw feeling in last place it didn't seem at all right, but then figured maybe I just liked to think flatteringly of my emotional life, but maybe it was all wishful thinking. I mean, I'm not that expressive and I don't go around planting flowers, hugging bunnies and doing yoga all day. I have a certain botheredness with frivolously emotional people who send out email spam angels and cheerily tell everyone they meet that they're the wonderfulest person they know.

    Today I'm feeling INFP may be it, though, the only thing I find odd now is that thinking is dead last in that type. I actually started another thread here ("I figured I was an INTP, but maybe not"), but I'm finding that I probably put much too much bizarre information in that thread and was too self-conscious. The relationship bit here probably puts things in a more real context so I can talk about things naturally.

    I could also have issues masking what's really going on. I have a laundry list. I mean I was born really premature and the doctors said I was retarded (seriously, this really happened though it sounds like a joke I'd make about myself). I had tons of trouble learning how to do everything as a young child, so it's quite possible my brain is mapped, er, rather unusually. Thank goodness for young brain plasticity. Then I kicked myself out of my high chair and fell on my head at some point in there. That can't help. My dad died at 3, my mom at 7. Lived with uncle and aunt after that and it was a somewhat cold, unpredictable and basically semi-evil place to live. I was a gay man in an extremely religious and judgmental society that told me I was evil. So I'm pretty sure I have issues that could keep a therapist busy for the next 800 years or so. Maybe I really ought to be seeing one.

    Maybe I feel a misfit because of all these things, and not just because of my theorized INTP personality. Whew, I didn't really think I'd go off like that. I never tell people in real life this stuff since I don't want them to think I'm a nut job or go all quiet and back away slowly. Yay, for the illusion of internet anonymity. ;-)

    Ok, just to come down from my little rant, here are some bits from INFP that seem to describe me pretty well as seen on this page: INFP Profile . "INFPs have the ability to see good in almost anyone or anything." "Their extreme depth of feeling is often hidden, even from themselves." "the INFP believes that good ultimately triumphs." "Some INFPs have a gift for taking technical information and putting it into layman's terms."

    So . . . maybe. I wouldn't have thought it since I can be a bit cynical, sarcastic and random, but really I'm also a bit secretly emo. ;-)
    Last edited by skyler; 11-05-2009 at 11:56 PM. Reason: Added bits about INFP that I relate to

  3. #13
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    I'll add another post since I'm in the groove of doing the tell all now and it will add some more data points hopefully more about him. Plus it's kind of entertaining. At least I think so.

    The reason I got in touch with this guy again to begin with is that I was talking to a good friend about all my recent horrible dates. After recounting a number of recent horrors I say "Why can't I date anyone decent and who isn't completely insane" (you probably know this rant). After thinking I say, "Well, there was one guy I liked quite a lot, but he's probably already taken since it was 2 years ago, and I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm an idiot because I was freakish last time I dated him. Plus I sort of let it fall apart and was acting neurotic. No way he'd ever want to deal with me again. I wouldn't want to deal with me again." (Though in the back of my mind I was thinking, "he did call me 'adorable' once, that's worth something.")

    My friend tells me that I have to contact him and find out since otherwise I'll always wonder and the only way to find out is to ask. At this point, Pride & Prejudice comes up since I'm wondering if it was all some huge series of misunderstandings and weird circumstances like in that book, or if there is some bad juju there and we had our reasons. My friend tells me I'm the only man she knows who would ever bring up Pride & Prejudice. Yeah, that's comforting. ;-)

    So that night I find his old email address but can't find his profile online and figure it's pretty risky. He may have left the country or is happily partnered or who knows what. So I write some long heartfelt email and figure it's way, way too much, so I systematically chop it down to nothing, which seemed somehow safer and better. I cringe a little and hit send since if I don't now then I never will. Only I keep thinking about it most of that night. In the morning I go reread to see how I feel about it now and I'm completely horrified because the email is short, but basically really cryptic and I know he'll just think I'm a complete nut job from what I sent.

    I know I have to send something that actually explains the whole situation in concrete detail to correct the psycho impression or just give up on it completely. I finally manage to find his profile on some dating site from the username in an email from 2 years ago. I look at the profile and see he's not already taken. That makes me feel a little better, but also gives me a sinking feeling about crazy email #1. So then I write a huge long email detailing all the things I thought happened in the past and how maybe he hates me or maybe I'm just delusional. And how I feel like an idiot. It even has Pride & Prejudice references in it, because, why not, it can't make it any worse at this point. It can't make him think I'm any more psycho than he probably already does, and the Pride & Prejudice comparison was part of the weird lead-up to email #1 so he might as well know. I'm pretty much completely humiliated by now, but there is nothing to do but accept it. So I send email #2 and hope it does at least a little damage control.

    While I'm at work that day I keep checking my email since I'm waiting for the other shoe to fall. I figure I'll probably get something short saying he's not really interested or even worse, the dreaded no-reply that you wait for for weeks and finally give up on. Sometime around noon I get a reply which says he understands, things are basically ok, let's talk tonight, and by the way, which of us is Mr. Darcy (which is the same thing my friend asked me the previous day while she harassed me).

    So when I talk to him that night, he's totally nice. In fact, he won't even let me make ironic jokes about myself and all my crazy behavior (since I figure that's the best way to deal with my craziness). He sort of pretty much cuts me off before I can. Maybe it makes him uncomfortable to bring up the subject, maybe he's uncomfortable with me yukking it up at my own expense. Maybe he's just not in the mood (see below). It's sweet, though it also drives me a little crazy that I can't lighten it up a bit.

    I knew he was close to his family from before. We talk about various things. I won't pretend it's all a perfect connection and totally clicks, but it's nice, and after all we haven't talked in 2 years. I'm not so delusional to expect the Pride & Prejudice ending instantly.

    Aside from things I mentioned earlier, the real bombshell is that his dad died of cancer last week. I know he has to be pretty depressed about it, but he obviously doesn't want to relive it right then so I tell him I'm sorry about it and move on.

    So at this point I'm really amazed that he emailed me back or called me at all. I mean, I don't know if I would in his situation--after getting a nutty email and then a long damage control email in rapid succession from someone I hadn't talked to for two years. Anyway, so that's what I'm talking about when I mean nice. I mean seriously nice.

  4. #14
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    Grr, this posted twice so I'm deleting the second.
    Last edited by skyler; 11-06-2009 at 01:18 AM. Reason: Duplicate post.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyler View Post
    In solving problems I tend to look for larger patterns and associations so probably Intuitive is correct as compared to sensing. I'm not always too practical.

    Thinking vs. Feeling, if buying something new I'll often read all the reviews, take in all the comparison charts, etc, before making a decision--except sometimes on smaller things I'm impulsive and just do things on a whim.

    And Perceiving vs. Judging I come out different ways on the tests frequently though more often on the Perceiving side.
    I have to admit that another poster might be right to a certain extent. When you are talk about T/F distinction, it can be either Ti or Te. The J/P category doesn't matter. If you are a dominant or secondary Te/Fe user, it will come out J, if you are a dominant or secondary Ti/Fi user, it will turn out P. Ti will give you an unequivocal INTP. Fi/Te will result in INTJ or INFP, depending on the order of preference.

    You sound INxP here, although I saw more Ne-Ti with a touch of Ni in your other thread. I'm guessing you parsed out all the personal touches/ compartmentalized information for greater workability. I just want to say, these INFP traits resonates with me as well. I think the key differences lies in the Ti/Fi distinction. INTP uses Ti-Fe, INFP uses Fi-Te, which plays out really differently. A highly developed Fi might also lead you to identify with INTJ which uses Te-Fi. Which do you recognize more as your dominant function i.e. instinctive approach to any given situation, Ti or Fi?


    Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed.

    It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make Introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life’s situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, “Sometimes, some things just have to be said.” On the other hand, most of the time this process works “in private” and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.

    Edit: I don't want to post another since I can't type your SO (not having experience with ISTJs), this is just to say, NP :-)
    Last edited by krunchtime; 11-09-2009 at 10:30 AM.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by krunchtime View Post
    I have to admit that another poster might be right to a certain extent. When you are talk about T/F distinction, it can be either Ti or Te. The J/P category doesn't matter. If you are a dominant or secondary Te/Fe user, it will come out J, if you are a dominant or secondary Ti/Fi user, it will turn out P. Ti will give you an unequivocal INTP. Fi/Te will result in INTJ or INFP, depending on the order of preference.
    Thanks for this help. After looking at what you said and the less shallow conceptualizations at some other sites, I'm pretty certain I'm INTP. The quick-results kinds of superficial information many web sites have really just confused me, but I found a number of better pages on this one Myers-Briggs | Personality Pathways that helped clarify.

    In general terms I'm definitely a strong N and not particularly a strong S. Though I have a strong need for harmony, I have to say I can be pretty much a clod and I'm very aware of the fact. I feel strongly but it usually takes me some time to work out the impacts of what I do on other people and it's not so obvious until I have time to process. I really have an underdeveloped "sixth sense" about how I affect other people. I often care intensely about those impacts when it's someone I love, but it's just not natural for me to see them right away. I'm pretty sure I process information about the emotional impact I have on other people through intuition or after-consideration rather than any innate sense. I can be obsessive and aware of my own feelings but often not other peoples. After working that out it helps clarify. That boils it down to an NT, not an NF for certain.

    One confusing aspect is that at about 20 years old I decided I didn't want to be an oblivious clod and didn't know what to do with my life, so I became an English major in college against everyone expecting me to become math/science kind of person. Plus supposedly it was good for getting in to grad schools. I guess it worked since I eventually got in to a great school in an interdisciplinary program after wandering through the work world for a while.

    In addition to the logic and language aspects, there was a lot of dealing with feeling, symbolism, etc in the literature. So in a way those learned skills probably come into play when I have to figure out what someone else is thinking or how something affects someone. In the story above, you can see that working out my impacts took me working it out all night and then being horrified. Yeah, that's me.

    Quote Originally Posted by krunchtime View Post
    Which do you recognize more as your dominant function i.e. instinctive approach to any given situation, Ti or Fi?
    I have a hard time choosing between the two in the abstract, but If I put Fi in the dominant position it certainly isn't me. Like I said, I'm a clod.

    So I think after working out the possibilities I'm probably INTx. I think INTP since Introverted Thinking with Extraverted Intuition seems right.

  7. #17
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    I just remembered a data point from years ago. It supports ISTJ for him pretty strongly, I think.

    We had had a nice afternoon (scheduled of course), we were talking about our plans for the next week or two and I mentioned this business trip and he volunteered to pick me up from the airport when I came back (couldn't take me, he was scheduled). I was a little surprised since I didn't think we'd gotten to the "picking each other up from the airport stage" yet. You know, it's kind of an indicator.

    I kind of protested. It was way out of his way. I could get home very easily on the BART (subway/underground) with no problem. He kept insisting so I figured, "well maybe he just wants to see me" and figured it would be nice to see him.

    So the time came, and of course he followed through on it perfectly. He drove me home (way out of his way) and probably saved me 20 minutes over taking the train home. The thing was that he must've spent 2 hours between driving to the airport, driving me home and then driving back to his place. Sweet, but completely unnecessary and I felt bad for using all his time for such a mundane task.

    The funniest part was that he went all out of his way to do it, but it wasn't something I wanted that much. He also went home as soon as he dropped me off because he had tons of work to finish that he'd taken home over the weekend.

    So I think he figured he was being loyal and helpful and felt some compunction to schedule and do this really not very necessary task that wasted a bunch of his time. It was rather sweet since I think he was trying to show me something by doing it, even though it wasn't significant to me, really.

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