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  1. #41
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I'm not an extrovert. I keep to myself most of the time, and in the past I have had social anxiety. It's not as bad now, but I'm still a loner. When I'm with a group of people, I feel the need to bring them together, whether it be by ideology or just getting something done. As far as I'm concerned, fighting just impedes progress and hurts people. For the most part, it's pointless.

    We should all work toward a common goal out of love and respect for one another instead of pointlessly bickering. I am a registered independent because I refuse to choose political "stances", and my favorite color is purple because it represents a harmony between both red and blue.

    Ok, now that I've gotten that off my shoulders, I'm going to sleep.
    INFP.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #42
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    lol @ favorite color

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.."
    -Oscar Wilde



  3. #43
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFJAGgernaut-B View Post
    To know for sure which INF type you are, examine how you relay facts and explanations to people. INFPs tend to be more visual and more poetic than INFJs, often prone to using illustrations to explain their theories and ideas. Kind of like how I did above. And in most of the discussions I've posted in on TypoC since signing up.
    Okay, let's not go making gross over-generalizations; they're not helpful. And the bolded is blatantly untrue. Both types are known for these qualities.

  4. #44
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Very true.

    It's amazing how much misinformation flies around here.

    If you want to know whether you're INFP or INFJ, just ask yourself whether your moral beliefs are an end unto themselves or just a means to an external end.

    That's all it really takes. INFPs (due to Fi) tend to see INFJs as sociopaths with no real moral fiber; INFJs (due to Fe) tend to see INFPs as too solitary/out of touch with community standards on morality.

    Deeper than that, though, the INFJ's Ni finds it a little ridiculous that INFPs think any sort of "objectively correct" morality even exists at all, but that's another story.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #45
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    That's all it really takes. INFPs (due to Fi) tend to see INFJs as sociopaths with no real moral fiber; INFJs (due to Fe) tend to see INFPs as too solitary/out of touch with community standards on morality.

    Deeper than that, though, the INFJ's Ni finds it a little ridiculous that INFPs think any sort of "objectively correct" morality even exists at all, but that's another story.
    You know, it's funny how this issue is one that pervades all systematic study of ethics. I have a bioethics class, and we just read a series of articles involving these philosophers arguing with each other about whether we can find an essential set of ethical principles internal to medicine or not. Some think we can, and some think the idea of universal, "essential" ethical principles is absurd. (I'm in the latter camp, BTW).

    That's a tangent, but an interesting one nevertheless (to me). I think the distinction is probably the best I've heard so far for Fi vs. Fe.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #46
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ But are you of the opinion that objectively correct logical principles exist?

    Because that's the Ti equivalent of Fi's belief about objectively correct ethics.

    And Ni would tell us that neither is truly objective at all.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #47
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Deeper than that, though, the INFJ's Ni finds it a little ridiculous that INFPs think any sort of "objectively correct" morality even exists at all, but that's another story.
    Are you sure about this? I can think of a few INFJs who seem very comfortable appealing to God or society for objective ethics. I would expect an Fi-dom to be the one who's more likely to reject that idea, since for an Fi-dom, morals come from within and don't necessarily bear much on the external world, much less exist objectively.

    Maybe some other INFs weigh in on this.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  8. #48
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wren View Post
    To put it simply, one needs to mature in order to determine type. And by that time, one could conclude, what's the point?
    What do you define as "mature" - one is always growing and learning, so there is something to be gained through self-evaluation at virtually any vantage point in life.

    Personally, I see a great danger in typing too young and placing yourself (or others) within stereotypes that are (ab)used to define yourself or excuse yourself by.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    It seems as though I am trying to separate myself from my parents by wanting to be an INFJ. What a sad day for my INFP self.
    You should jump up and dance no matter what type you are! You are special!

    Quote Originally Posted by MFJAGgernaut-B View Post
    To illustrate how this relationship works, look at a car's engine. By itself, the engine can do nothing, no matter how much potential it has. In order to work properly, it must have a fuel line attached to it. This fuel line takes in fuel from an outside source, and supplies it to the engine as it needs it. At the same time, the engine itself regulates how much new fuel needs to be supplied to get the maximum possible output. As long as the engine and fuel line do their jobs, the car as a whole will function the way it's supposed to.
    Love your use of analogy. I do it all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    It's amazing how much misinformation flies around here.
    Indeed; but we all wear a pair of glasses that affect our perception of what is. I don't think any of us truly see the world without any lenses influencing our view.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    If you want to know whether you're INFP or INFJ, just ask yourself whether your moral beliefs are an end unto themselves or just a means to an external end.
    I don't even know what that means myself, so I am not sure if that is ultimately helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    That's all it really takes. INFPs (due to Fi) tend to see INFJs as sociopaths with no real moral fiber; INFJs (due to Fe) tend to see INFPs as too solitary/out of touch with community standards on morality.

    Deeper than that, though, the INFJ's Ni finds it a little ridiculous that INFPs think any sort of "objectively correct" morality even exists at all, but that's another story.
    I disagree, but that's another story.

  9. #49
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    Are you sure about this? I can think of a few INFJs who seem very comfortable appealing to God or society for objective ethics. I would expect an Fi-dom to be the one who's more likely to reject that idea, since for an Fi-dom, morals come from within and don't necessarily bear much on the external world, much less exist objectively.

    Maybe some other INFs weigh in on this.
    Yes, but note that God is an external source that Ni has arbitrarily made a conscious decision to place faith in. Fe needs an external definition in order to avoid being totally amoral.

    Fi doms reject the idea of external morality being imposed on them, but they're laughably stubborn and unyielding whenever anything threatens their arbitrarily imposed/subjectively validated conceptions of ethics. Most are not even remotely ready to accept that there could be anything wrong with these moral conceptions (Fi), but will still outwardly admit that there is in order to keep up an appearance of external flexibility (Ne).

    Hence the tragic hypocrisy that all too often results from being an NP: Ne leads INFPs to consider themselves as supreme examples of tolerance and open-mindedness...except when something violates Fi's values, and then anyone who disagrees is a BIGOTED INTOLERANT ASSHOLE AND A TERRIBLE PERSON! "Yeah I'm totally open-minded and ready to accept anyone else's ideas...unless they violate mine! THEN FUCK 'EM!"

    Fi isn't really aware of the distinction between subjective/objective ethics because it's so mired in its own internal conception of what is ethical and what is not. Since Fi requires no external validation for these moral beliefs, it ends up drinking its own bathwater through endless subjective self-validation and that's very difficult for outsiders to deal with. (You can see the same thing with INTP's Ti obsession with "logic.")


    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Indeed; but we all wear a pair of glasses that affect our perception of what is. I don't think any of us truly see the world without any lenses influencing our view.
    It's funny how often INFPs will say that and then go right back into dogmatic insistence that their ethical beliefs are the best as soon as anything threatens them (once they get upset.)



    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I don't even know what that means myself, so I am not sure if that is ultimately helpful.
    That's because you're an INFP and you don't understand the idea of ethics coming from anywhere but "the heart." Your entire conception of morality is contingent upon the idea that it comes from within, not from others, which is categorically Fi.



    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I disagree, but that's another story.
    This indicates to me that you don't really fully understand the way INFJs approach morality. They don't have an internal "conscience" of subjectively validated morality the way you do; their moral guidelines require external validation and will change significantly from one cultural context to the next. What is "moral" is merely whatever approach respects people's cultural boundaries in order to get to the desired external goal--not because respecting people's cultural boundaries is inherently "good"; Ni would argue that there is no such thing as inherently "good" or "bad" until we've defined some external goal or priority. To INFJs, morality is subservient to external goals and exists only as a consequence of them. If there were no external goals, there'd be no purpose for morality.

    Fi tends to find this disingenuous as it thinks the only true morality is that which comes from within, so changing morality as one changes culture (as Fe does so naturally) is seen as disturbingly inconsistent/not genuinely in touch with "true morality", from the Fi vantage point.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #50
    Ginkgo
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    For me, morality is instinctual. I realized this today as I read an article online about a little girl who threw a fowl ball back into the field. A huge grin trailed across my face as I said to myself "That was the right thing to do".

    However, I don't think that morality is objective. My Ne tells me that there are often too many factors involved to just arbitrarily determine what is "right" and what is "wrong". A VERY basic example of this would be a a situation in which you had to kill somebody in order to save your own hide. Suddenly "Thou shalt not kill" goes out the window. By the way, I don't prescribe to any religious movement. My Ne also tells me that religions like to play the "Us and them" game.

    Morality is simply something that I alter as I learn more things. It is a slow evolution of sorts. < Was that a very Te thing to say?

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