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  1. #131
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I wasn't saying that it couldn't be; you completely missed the point. I was saying that whether one sees the descriptions as disparaging, and/or which one views as insulting, is based on how one interprets the descriptions and one's perspective.
    Hmmm, I could also see this point, though I am mainly confused as to why the poster should be held responsible for having someone else comprehend their meaning in another interpretation. (Which sounds implied in the previous posts written by other users.) This is an open question not necessarily aimed at any specific person to answer.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  2. #132
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Hmmm, I'm not seeing what's so heinous about his distinction. Would it make things better if he also mentioned that the external community standards by which Fe operates are also arbitrary? Is it not true that morality comes from within, for an Fi dom? Is it not true that this morality is pretty independent of externally imposed standards or systems of ethics? Is it not true that attaining the most moral perspective (i.e., finding a personal worldview that is the most ethical) is an end in itself for an Fi dom?

    I mean, I'm no Fi user, but those things seem to be pretty much in line with the function definition. But if any of those things is not true in an explicit sense (none of this, "oh well we're all influenced by society so in a way we all get our morality externally"- this is true but useless since the Fi-Fe distinction is purely for conceptual clarity) then I could see why that might be offensive. But as you said, you're just reacting to word choice.

    And I don't see how turning the OP off of Fi should be a concern. I'm sure the OP can think for his/her self.
    Compare your wording with his. There is a negative tone in describing Fi over Fe. In my first post, I pointed out a few examples of the word choices and phrasing which belayed his bias. The OP can think for herself, but that's not going to remove all potential for being swayed. It's likely a similar reason why some sensors may type themselves as intuitive. Who sees themselves as the stupid, shallow, bland sensors portrayed on MBTI forums?

    The below quotes show a definite dislike of INFPs, with no equivalent posts about INFJs in here. I especially like when he tells an INFP how she thinks and where her morals come from. Really? You are in her head? Or excuse me, heart, since apparently that's all we use to determine anything. We just cannot grasp or see what Ni sees. :rolli:

    Deeper than that, though, the INFJ's Ni finds it a little ridiculous that INFPs think any sort of "objectively correct" morality even exists at all, but that's another story.

    Because that's the Ti equivalent of Fi's belief about objectively correct ethics.
    And Ni would tell us that neither is truly objective at all.

    Fi doms reject the idea of external morality being imposed on them, but they're laughably stubborn and unyielding whenever anything threatens their arbitrarily imposed/subjectively validated conceptions of ethics. Most are not even remotely ready to accept that there could be anything wrong with these moral conceptions (Fi), but will still outwardly admit that there is in order to keep up an appearance of external flexibility(Ne).

    Hence the tragic hypocrisy that all too often results from being an NP: Ne leads INFPs to consider themselves as supreme examples of tolerance and open-mindedness...except when something violates Fi's values, and then anyone who disagrees is a BIGOTED INTOLERANT ASSHOLE AND A TERRIBLE PERSON! "Yeah I'm totally open-minded and ready to accept anyone else's ideas...unless they violate mine! THEN FUCK 'EM!"

    Fi isn't really aware of the distinction between subjective/objective ethics because it's so mired in its own internal conception of what is ethical and what is not. Since Fi requires no external validation for these moral beliefs, it ends up drinking its own bathwater through endless subjective self-validation and that's very difficult for outsiders to deal with. (You can see the same thing with INTP's Ti obsession with "logic.")

    It's funny how often INFPs will say that and then go right back into dogmatic insistence that their ethical beliefs are the best as soon as anything threatens them (once they get upset.)

    That's because you're an INFP and you don't understand the idea of ethics coming from anywhere but "the heart." Your entire conception of morality is contingent upon the idea that it comes from within, not from others, which is categorically Fi.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    He is definitely biased against the NFPs that do as he's describing. Lol. He isn't biased against them all... He's been saying that. If you aren't as he's describing, don't post, since it doesn't apply to you (just my opinion on it anyway).

    I talk to him a good bit, before I came to the conclusion that I was ISFP he thought I was a "cool INFP", so there isn't really a bias. He's just being aggressive, making it sound that way.

    By the way I really enjoy reading these exchanges, it's made me learn a lot about FiNe vs FiSe.

    HIS light. Not the light as in... absolute truth. He wants you to see what he sees as the truth. Instead of arguing with him, try to explain why he's wrong versus just personally attacking and blaming emotional attachments on his positions. Actually prove him wrong. That's what he wants you to do.
    Congrats to gaining his approval :rolli:. Can't say I want it.

    I made my point in my first post in here. There is a clear bias in his views of Fi, and I explained how I came to that conclusion (and why his biased view is not helpful in the context of someone typing themselves). He's the one who will not address that post directly and has tried to make this about inferring emotion that isn't there or about how he hates other types also. I take this to mean I am right, or else he would address the actual issue.

    And no, he has lumped all INFPs together in his posts in here (see above), which is why I felt compelled to speak out.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Yeah, I would say that I am an INFP, but Fi doesn't make sense to me. The whole concept of "fighting passionately for your beliefs" seems ridiculous and blind, not to insult any Fi users here.

    The reason I was talking about being a registered independent is that I often imagine the two parties as their respective animals. They fight and trod upon each other, but never actually achieve anything. American democracy isn't even democracy, but that's a whole other story.

    I often had social anxiety because I would, for whatever reason, 'know' that people were talking behind my back in certain social situations. This was a product of Ni/Fe. And while it was true, my angry, reclusive behavior was unhealthy.
    1) Liking red and blue because they make a balance of purple, or even voting independent because you don't like what the parties do to each other doesn't make you Fe. In fact, it sounds much more like Fi to me. Instead of your trip being a particular party belief, like Democrat, Libertarian, or Republican, your thing seems to be "peace at any price" and passive balance. That can very much be an INFP trait. Like Black Cat said, it also makes you sound like an enneagram 9.

    2) Lots of INFPs have social anxiety, and are paranoid that people are talking about them behind their backs.

  4. #134
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    1) Liking red and blue because they make a balance of purple, or even voting independent because you don't like what the parties do to each other doesn't make you Fe. In fact, it sounds much more like Fi to me. Instead of your trip being a particular party belief, like Democrat, Libertarian, or Republican, your thing seems to be "peace at any price" and passive balance. That can very much be an INFP trait. Like Black Cat said, it also makes you sound like an enneagram 9.
    This is what I was trying to get at, basically. The OP's values and actions, including this one, seem like an outerworking of balancing inner beliefs and integrating them, which is much more like Fi, from what I've learned.

    Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing more about Fi from dom/aux Fi users. It seems like an interesting function, and I suspect I have quite a bit of it, but I would like to hear about it in practice.

  5. #135
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    I have been typed 5 different types in the last few years, ranging from ENTP, INTJ, ISFP, to INFJ, and finally landing on INFP... I would like to believe that has something to do with ones environment constantly changing... Or,... I'm batshit crazy!!
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post







    Congrats to gaining his approval :rolli:. Can't say I want it.
    All I know is that he has to stop using that cliche about people drinking their bathwater. He says it about anyone he thinks is wrong. Can't your Ne Ti come up with something a little more original, Simulated World?

  7. #137
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Compare your wording with his. There is a negative tone in describing Fi over Fe. In my first post, I pointed out a few examples of the word choices and phrasing which belayed his bias. The OP can think for herself, but that's not going to remove all potential for being swayed. It's likely a similar reason why some sensors may type themselves as intuitive. Who sees themselves as the stupid, shallow, bland sensors portrayed on MBTI forums?

    The below quotes show a definite dislike of INFPs, with no equivalent posts about INFJs in here. I especially like when he tells an INFP how she thinks and where her morals come from. Really? You are in her head? Or excuse me, heart, since apparently that's all we use to determine anything. We just cannot grasp or see what Ni sees. :rolli:

    I made my point in my first post in here. There is a clear bias in his views of Fi, and I explained how I came to that conclusion (and why his biased view is not helpful in the context of someone typing themselves). He's the one who will not address that post directly and has tried to make this about inferring emotion that isn't there or about how he hates other types also. I take this to mean I am right, or else he would address the actual issue.

    And no, he has lumped all INFPs together in his posts in here (see above), which is why I felt compelled to speak out.
    This sounds like a case of two ships passing each other in the night. You both have established valid points, but they are directed onto separate paths. There is a need for the other party to understand his or her intention, and because this meaning never entered their frame of reference, it is difficult for them to fully grasp the information the way the original user intended.

    Simulatedworld: Possible functional theory interpretations.
    Style: Provocative word choice. Logical connection of ideas.
    Cause of conflict: Wants the readers to ignore the emotional context.

    Opposition: Possible emotive interpretations.
    Style: Focus on the emotional content and individual value.
    Cause of conflict: Wants the user to recognize the potential insults within their explanations.
    Last edited by Lethe; 09-20-2009 at 09:40 PM. Reason: Comma
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  8. #138
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Nice post Lethe but sim knows what he is doing, he chooses to post this way, enjoying his provocation. Luring the INFPs into the same trap over and over again. Surely it must get boring, but it seems more like an endless source of amusement to him.

    I'm not sure what's to be ultimately gained, except for all the INFP's to think he's an insensitive jerk.

    But sim, I see your game and like to play.

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    sim knows what he is doing, he chooses to post this way, enjoying his provocation. Luring the INFPs into the same trap over and over again. Surely it must get boring, but it seems more like an endless source of amusement to him.

    I'm not sure what's to be ultimately gained, except for all the INFP's to think he's an insensitive jerk.
    He admits this whole heartedly if you talk to him. It's not news or anything. He also does it to other people, though, not just INFPs.

  10. #140
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Nice post Lethe but sim knows what he is doing, he chooses to post this way, enjoying his provocation. Luring the INFPs into the same trap over and over again. Surely it must get boring, but it seems more like an endless source of amusement to him.

    I'm not sure what's to be ultimately gained, except for all the INFP's to think he's an insensitive jerk.

    But sim, I see your game and like to play.
    I agree that Sim fully understands he is being provocative, but he wants the audience to acknowledge the analytical aspect (Ti) of his approach by stating he could be as equally harsh with any given type. He refused to back down from his style (much like what his opponents are doing) and this non-accommodating behavior can be translated as insensitivity to other's needs.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

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