Am I INTJ? INFJ? Something else entirely? Please help. :)

[Rudy]

Ok, so, I admit I came to this forum with the primary purpose of using y'all. I'm stuck on the question as to whether I'm an INTJ or an INFJ, and I'm hoping to get some input here.

A little background on me. I'm a 25 year old graduate student studying Economics. Though I have bachelors degrees in math, computer science and economics, I went to economics for my graduate studies because I thought it was the most geared towards actually changing the world.

I'm happy to answer absolutely any question about my personality, or my experiences; nothing is too personal when it comes to solving this mystery in my mind.

I'm pretty damn certain on the I, N and J, but feel free to question those as well.


Why I originally thought that I was INTJ

* I loathe smalltalk, and the telephone (an engine of wretched impersonality,) and would rather sit in companiable silence than talk about trivialities.

* I was all computers, science, and math growing up, though I did a lot of reading fiction and non-fiction as well. Now I've started branching out into some more artistic hobbies as well, though.

* I have difficulty understanding or accepting most social rituals, unless I can see a reason behind them. I perfectly able to participate in them, and I do because I don't want to hurt anyone without good reason, but I don't get them.

* I get very annoyed when it seems to be that people are allowing their emotions to make their decisions for them. I feel things very, very intensely, but I struggle to not let these emotions control me.

* I like measurements, tables, rational systems. I want to quantify things, to put them to order in my head. I love predicting quantities, especially when I'm right.

* I love debate. I intensely savor instances where I am able to deconstruct or destroy the logic of my opponents' argument. When I am debating something, all that matters is the argument, the truth of the matter, the logic. In this state, I don't care one whit about personal considerations, or the emotions of those involved. I view debate as something in which personalities are set aside.

* While I am loathe to hurt anyone, I have a very hard time letting anything that seems illogical to me pass without questioning it. I'm almost incapable of it, in fact. I want to know why.



Why I am starting to think that I might be INFJ

* When I'm not in direct conflict with someone, such as in a debate, I put a lot of thought into avoiding hurting them emotionally; it's something I avoid stringently.

* I empathize, though do not necessarily sypmathize, with just about everyone, whether I like it or not. This includes fictional characters, sometimes to an absurd degree. I am often unable to watch television or movies where a character is having strong emotional reactions, most especially embarassment and/or shame. I'll literally leave the room/theater in many cases when I can tell such reactions are emminent.

* I feel responsible for the emotions of those close to me, even when their negative emotions are not my fault in any way, and I derive immense satisfaction from helping to improve their emotional state.

* I find myself competely unable to justify the means with the ends, even when it makes sense. For example, recently, when arguing with my INTP friend about North Korea, he felt that appeasement policies were justifiable in slowing the development of a nuclear weapons program. For my part, however, I can only focus on the immense amount of pain, abasement, starvation and suffering that Kim Jong-Il has visited on his people, and the situation they are in. It makes me actually nauseous if I focus on it for too long. I can't see appeasement policies as anything but a betrayal of these people, no matter how much logical sense they might make. I don't feel that any level of corruption or abuse is acceptable, nor do I deal well with people defending something as "the best of bad options." We'll find something better, damnit.

* To take a brief point from typelogic.com, I often fantasize about getting revenge on those who victimize the defenseless, and the concept of "poetic justice" is very appealing to me.

* I'm big on maintaining harmony in a group setting. I like hosting small gatherings and, as the host, am always very focused on drawing everyone into the experience.

* Though I don't claim to have any great skill at it, I enjoy writing poetry, especially expressing an idea or thought in poetic form rather than prose, something that's gotten some complaints against me at INTJforum.

* I'll often feel strongly that something is (morally) wrong, without being able to immediately articulate why.


Things that don't entirely fit with INFJness.

* I don't get "gut" feelings out of nowhere, something which I've heard many INFJs claim that they do get. I often get "vibes" off of people when interacting with them, but I assume that this is due to signals that I am subconsciously noticing.

* I have no belief or inclination towards the supernatural, psychic phenomenon, etc., which is something that many profiles have indicated that INFJs tend toward (though maybe this is innaccurate.) I am a strict materialist in my view of the universe.

 

[poppy]

Sounds to me like you have a very high use of extroverted feeling, which suggests INFJ. It is entirely possible that you are a very pragmatic and rational INFJ, or that you are an INTJ who is unusually sensitive to the group dynamic. My bet is with INFJ. Best of luck figuring it out, friend! And if you find you're still stuck you can just call yourself INFTJ.

 

[BlackCat]

You seem very INFJ to me. Within your quote I'll respond by paragraph with bolded text.

Why I originally thought that I was INTJ

* I loathe smalltalk, and the telephone (an engine of wretched impersonality,) and would rather sit in companiable silence than talk about trivialities.

I don't think that this has much to do with INTJ... this just seems like a character trait. I'm an F and I loathe smalltalk and the telephone as well. However you seem like me in the sense that your T and F are borderline.

* I was all computers, science, and math growing up, though I did a lot of reading fiction and non-fiction as well. Now I've started branching out into some more artistic hobbies as well, though.

My INFJ best friend is like this. I am like this too, I'm still all computers right now. Again, a character trait.

* I have difficulty understanding or accepting most social rituals, unless I can see a reason behind them. I perfectly able to participate in them, and I do because I don't want to hurt anyone without good reason, but I don't get them.

This deals with a stereotype of Fe IMO. INFJs do it the reverse, they figure out how THEY, THEMSELVES think that people should be treated and make that a "social rule" for themselves to follow.

* I get very annoyed when it seems to be that people are allowing their emotions to make their decisions for them. I feel things very, very intensely, but I struggle to not let these emotions control me.

Me too. You sound like a very well rounded and healthy INFJ, congratulations, you are a non insane NF.

* I like measurements, tables, rational systems. I want to quantify things, to put them to order in my head. I love predicting quantities, especially when I'm right.

Tertiary Ti. The tertiary grants someone "relief", and you enjoying using it especially when you're right proves this within yourself. INFJs are constantly putting things in order in their head with their NiTi process.

* I love debate. I intensely savor instances where I am able to deconstruct or destroy the logic of my opponents' argument. When I am debating something, all that matters is the argument, the truth of the matter, the logic. In this state, I don't care one whit about personal considerations, or the emotions of those involved. I view debate as something in which personalities are set aside.

This sounds very stereotypically NT, and I can see why you would think that this points toward INTJ, but I don't think it does.

* While I am loathe to hurt anyone, I have a very hard time letting anything that seems illogical to me pass without questioning it. I'm almost incapable of it, in fact. I want to know why.

Healthy F.

Why I am starting to think that I might be INFJ

* When I'm not in direct conflict with someone, such as in a debate, I put a lot of thought into avoiding hurting them emotionally; it's something I avoid stringently.

* I empathize, though do not necessarily sypmathize, with just about everyone, whether I like it or not. This includes fictional characters, sometimes to an absurd degree. I am often unable to watch television or movies where a character is having strong emotional reactions, most especially embarassment and/or shame. I'll literally leave the room/theater in many cases when I can tell such reactions are emminent.

* I feel responsible for the emotions of those close to me, even when their negative emotions are not my fault in any way, and I derive immense satisfaction from helping to improve their emotional state.

* I find myself competely unable to justify the means with the ends, even when it makes sense. For example, recently, when arguing with my INTP friend about North Korea, he felt that appeasement policies were justifiable in slowing the development of a nuclear weapons program. For my part, however, I can only focus on the immense amount of pain, abasement, starvation and suffering that Kim Jong-Il has visited on his people, and the situation they are in. It makes me actually nauseous if I focus on it for too long. I can't see appeasement policies as anything but a betrayal of these people, no matter how much logical sense they might make. I don't feel that any level of corruption or abuse is acceptable, nor do I deal well with people defending something as "the best of bad options." We'll find something better, damnit.

* To take a brief point from typelogic.com, I often fantasize about getting revenge on those who victimize the defenseless, and the concept of "poetic justice" is very appealing to me.

* I'm big on maintaining harmony in a group setting. I like hosting small gatherings and, as the host, am always very focused on drawing everyone into the experience.

* Though I don't claim to have any great skill at it, I enjoy writing poetry, especially expressing an idea or thought in poetic form rather than prose, something that's gotten some complaints against me at INTJforum.

* I'll often feel strongly that something is (morally) wrong, without being able to immediately articulate why.

^^^Everything above points to INFJ


Things that don't entirely fit with INFJness.

* I don't get "gut" feelings out of nowhere, something which I've heard many INFJs claim that they do get. I often get "vibes" off of people when interacting with them, but I assume that this is due to signals that I am subconsciously noticing.

I'm not sure what to say to this, me not being an INFJ, but don't let this remove the possibility of INFJ for you.

* I have no belief or inclination towards the supernatural, psychic phenomenon, etc., which is something that many profiles have indicated that INFJs tend toward (though maybe this is innaccurate.) I am a strict materialist in my view of the universe.

That is complete horse shit, and I have no idea why a profile would say that an entire personality type would have certain beliefs or experience certain things.

I rest my case, you're a healthy and non insane F. You are very balanced.

Here is a good INFJ profile, this comes from interviews with INFJs and not stereotypes projected onto the type- INFJ

 

[Kra]

I agree with Blackcat. You sound like an INFJ with a well developed Te, which helps balance you out.

Note: Congratulations! You are even more rare than an INTJ.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

hey rudy! i think that gut feeling stuff is just keirsey going overboard and being melodramatic for some reason. same with esp, etc. but i think infj can feel or know things others might not because of Ni and Fe......

i have tested my functions and have almost as much Te as Fe. stereotypical infj have Ti as one of the main functions, so it is cool to meet another infj who (probably) has a lot of Te as well........and i don't think if you were really intj you'd give much care about what type you are.....not sure. the VERY intj i know (my son) thinks mbti is a load of shit, and a waste of real time. haha. but for me, it's a way of understanding people better, and i love that. you sound like a logical infj.

keep us posted on what you figure out.

 

[Rudy]

Sounds to me like you have a very high use of extroverted feeling, which suggests INFJ. It is entirely possible that you are a very pragmatic and rational INFJ, or that you are an INTJ who is unusually sensitive to the group dynamic. My bet is with INFJ. Best of luck figuring it out, friend! And if you find you're still stuck you can just call yourself INFTJ.

I considered going with INFTJ, but most typology forums only allow 4 letters.

Thanks.

You seem very INFJ to me. Within your quote I'll respond by paragraph with bolded text.

I rest my case, you're a healthy and non insane F. You are very balanced.

Here is a good INFJ profile, this comes from interviews with INFJs and not stereotypes projected onto the type- INFJ

Very interesting... I definitely relate to the creating my own social rules aspect. I've introduced by friends and family to some of them.

As far as the debate thing, I don't know. I think I view debate as a respite from being concerned about other people's feelings. It's a sort of combat arena for me. I assume that anyone who enters the ring is fully prepared for pain.

Thank you for the profile link, it's very interesting. Though, even that one implies that INFJs lean towards spirituality, something that I do not.

I agree with Blackcat. You sound like an INFJ with a well developed Te, which helps balance you out.

Note: Congratulations! You are even more rare than an INTJ.

A male INFJ at that. Fits well with my INTJ girlfriend, rarest of the female types, as I recall.

Thanks for the input.

hey rudy! i think that gut feeling stuff is just keirsey going overboard and being melodramatic for some reason. same with esp, etc. but i think infj can feel or know things others might not because of Ni and Fe......

i have tested my functions and have almost as much Te as Fe. stereotypical infj have Ti as one of the main functions, so it is cool to meet another infj who (probably) has a lot of Te as well........and i don't think if you were really intj you'd give much care about what type you are.....not sure. the VERY intj i know (my son) thinks mbti is a load of shit, and a waste of real time. haha. but for me, it's a way of understanding people better, and i love that. you sound like a logical infj.

keep us posted on what you figure out.

I don't doubt that the INFJ can pick up on things others might not, I would just argue this is because they are picking information up subconsciously, not as a result of any psychic-type ability. I can see, however, how it might seem psychic to many.

Well, the very active INTJ forum is testament to the fact that not all INTJs think it a load of shit. I agree, though, that it's great as a way of understanding people better.





Before posting here, I was already leaning towards calling myself an INFJ with a well-developed T, and everything said here seems to be in line with that. With any luck, I'll get even more input; thank you all for your time.