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Why am I an ISTJ?

Jeffster

veteran attention whore
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Yeah, I would think ISTJs would be the MOST likely to examine rules to make sure they were sensible.

And btw Beat, Athenian already DID link you to the thread. Just click on the little blue arrow next to your name in the quote. :newwink:
 

Athenian200

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Oh my goodness, touche. Even seeing that, I have no recollection of making that, or ever having tested INFJ at any point. I'm actually confused right now... What's with the hostile undertones I'm sensing though, Athenian? Am I doing something wrong in my probing of this?

Can you link me to the thread where you took that quote from, please? Looking at the link in that quote, it's one of those read the descriptions and choose your letter type deals. Aren't we SJs notorious for lacking self-awareness? Maybe that's how I botched that one up so badly in the beginning... :D

Oh, I didn't mean anything hostile. Sometimes I just come across badly. No, you're not doing anything wrong. :) I was just mildly annoyed/surprised that you didn't remember.

I mean, it's kind of an SJ's job to remember and keep track of little things like that. It takes me a long time to sift though my memories and get them all sorted out, because I don't typically keep them organized like SJs do. ;)

DisneyGeek already linked you, though.
 

Fluffywolf

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Could you give me an example?

I run three companies succesfully. Not by being a lazy INTP. And I have no problems while doing so, nor do I suffer from stress or any of the sorts. I can use my dominant T to make a conscious choice to be something I find important in my life without needing to worry about burning myself out.

Most notably is the bridge between P and J and I and E. As far as the NT bit goes, I'm pretty stuck there. :p
 

Usehername

On a mission
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But Beat, aren't both your parents INFJ? Doesn't it make perfect typological sense that an ISTJ raised by two INFJs would not be a prototypical ISTJ?
 

swordpath

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^That does make some sense. However, I wouldn't say the oddities are traits that I share with my parents.

Athenian - I can have a strong memory, it's just rather selective. ;)
 

Shadow

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Feb 17, 2009
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453
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INTJ
Agree with Elaur - I can't stand "stupid" rules. If there doesn't seem a point to them then I'll rebel against them noticeably! If I can see the point then it's a different matter.

I consistently test ISTJ, trying to be as honest as I can on any given test (including one like 10 minutes ago). I've tested a dozen times and it's always ISTJ.

*I dislike conformity. It bothers me.
*I hate stupid rules
*I'm irritated by people who follow and enforce stupid rules and that think everyone should be/act a certain way
*I can be pretty lazy and un-dutiful. If I can't see a direct, positive result in completing a given task, I probably won't do it or I'll slack at it - meaning, I don't preoccupy myself with work and busyness just for the sake of being busy.
*I'm not a clean-freak... But I'm not a pig.
*I'm not overly concerned about upholding traditions or at least to the 'T', in fact, a lot of the time, I think it's a little cheesy.
*I don't use spreadsheets, or a day-timer, or really notes at all for that matter.

What am I? Just a fucked up ISTJ?

I'm also pretty lazy; but then when I get into the work I'll work hard and until it's done. Does that ring true? Procrastinatory is the word.
I'm with you on not wanting to complete tasks I see as unnecessary... which brings me on to my dislike of clean freaks! I think that's more an ESTJ thing. I can't see the point in endlessly cleaning when there are better things to do.
I'll also accept people for who they are, like a true individualist. I don't try to change people, unless they actually need help (like my druggy brother, who no-one else seems to give a sh** about). The more variety the better. Just as long as they accept that I'm a bit traditional and quiet, and accept my opinions too.
I'm not very conformist either. It's very anti-conformist to be a woman who doesn't spout her emotions! My dress sense and music tastes aren't conformist either, because I have a dark-tinted view of the world.
Finances and money = the bain of my life.
Yet I couldn't be more ISTJ.

You could well be ISTJ, although I'm confused that you don't use a planner! I'd be lost without my diary. Don't you get a bit bored after doing nothing for a while, too?

Possibly it's the sense of protectiveness and loyalty, teamed with the willingness to see everything "in order". This doesn't mean that everything has to 'conform', just that everything's running smoothly and people are happy. Maybe you're also very stoic and dependable.
 
G

garbage

Guest
Oh my goodness, touche. Even seeing that, I have no recollection of making that, or ever having tested INFJ at any point. I'm actually confused right now..

Don't feel bad.. I signed up as a ESFJ when I joined the forum, and now look at me :doh:
 

simulatedworld

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Yes, I have. I've even made a thread about the possibility a while back. I just never test P and I'm not mechanical minded at all (which seems to be a trademark of the ISTPs). If it works, I'm happy and I don't really feel the need to how it works, if it doesn't and it's a technical piece of equipment, I'm pissed and lost in the sauce. lol...

In a lot of ways, I identify with the P function though; I think moreso within the last couple of years in my life. I've let loose more and become more comfortable in my environment and open to "the moment".

And I'm not anti-authority by any means, if it seems I've implied that. Hell, I'm an aspiring Police Officer; but I can be easily irritated with inane rules and more irritated with people that stand behind them, trying to uphold them, without even questioning why they're doing it. I guess my definition for that type of person would be a "tool".

I don't like MBTI anymore. lol

In strict Jungian terms, P is not actually a "function."

Being a P means that you extrovert the Perceptive function (in the case of an xSTx type, this would be Se.)

So, if you can't decide purely by whether the Judging or Perceiving profiles fit you better, try to determine whether you fit closer to the Si/Te mold or the Ti/Se one. To me, your speech seems littered with ISTP pragmatism--if "pragmatic" is one word that may describe you better than any, there's a good chance you're ISTP.

Let's consider the image you give off to others, for a moment. According to function theory, the difference would come down to this:

ISTP (Ti+Se) = Introverted Judgment+Extroverted Perception. People see mainly your flexible, unscheduled and adaptable side. While most of your time is spent in quiet reflection on Ti, placing all available data into an impersonal framework which becomes the standard for evaluating everything, your interactions with the external world are handled by Se, meaning you observe, respond and instinctively adapt quickly to changes in your immediate physical environment, preferring to do what feels right at the moment over planning out every meticulous detail.

You don't have to be mechanically-minded to be an ISTP; that's just a common interest for them. Others likely would not describe you as particularly controlling or organized, and you don't mind changing plans abruptly or not having a plan. ISTPs are good at improvising practical, real-world solutions to technical problems on the fly--they'd much rather learn by doing, through a hands-on direct experiential approach, than by reading books or learning through otherwise traditional means. Often, ISTPs entirely ignore the rules because they're too busy getting directly involved and doing. Due to the Perceptive function Se being extroverted, others see you as more curious than decisive (though internally/privately, via Ti, you are very decisive.)

ISTJ (Si+Te) = Most of your interactions with the outer world will be handled by Te, which organizes everything in your external world into logical relationships by which useful goals can be completed. Te causes others to see you as more decisive than curious, although you spend the majority of your time in quiet reflection on Si. Si fosters fundamentally a "better safe than sorry" attitude--contrary to Se's ability to instinctively adapt and improvise in the moment, Si relies primarily on what its rich, distinctive memory for sensory details can recall with direct, literal precision.

So whatever has been directly experienced before is always the basis for how we should approach the future--consider what we *do* know for certain (Si) and have a detailed and strictly organized plan for achieving the goals we seek on schedule (Te.) When ISTJs go into goal-mode, their Te can make them seem like ESTJs, but most of the time they're just in Si mode, absorbing and categorizing every minute sensory detail of their surroundings and constantly adjusting their internal standards according to what is known.

Si says: If you don't know for sure, why risk it? We already have a tried-and-true method that direct sensory memory tells us will work, so there's no reason to change the method. Si likes to go by the book and stick to the known, that which has been directly experienced and mentally catalogued. ISTJs don't follow every stupid rule just for its own sake--that's an exaggeration of Si--but they will tend to automatically give more weight to any idea that remains within the accepted, traditional framework. If we wander too far outside the known, who KNOWS what might happen?


Honestly, I'm leaning toward ISTP for you...but you tell me which functional makeup seems to fit you better. Your apparent vehement dislike for following arbitrary rules and traditions just because that's the standard accepted method seems to indicate a high probability of ISTP.
 

Thalassa

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But...belonging to the military and wanting to be a police officer involves a great deal of conformity, and occasionally following rules that you may not fully agree with. While you may disdain other types of conformity - say with fashion, politics, or religion - you clearly have no problem dealing with it in your professional life, and in fact aspire to have more of it in your life.

No, I say SJ.
 

simulatedworld

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^ That one chick with the funny K-name is an ENFP in the military. It happens.

Also, ISTJs are not nearly as big conformists as any of their SJ brethren. Typically the most conformist thing they do is obsess over their careers/future financial security. They often really don't give a shit about being overtly social or emotionally supportive or other things that Fe tells SFJs they *should* be doing. (As for ESTJs, they tend to feel that it's their responsibility to be social because they enjoy being around people and see how sociability offers many ways to further their own goals.)

ISTJs conform in their own way, but it's more in terms of following the rules because that's the safest, most predictable, known way to go--it's not that they mindlessly follow rules like sheep, just that the potential consequences of breaking them are typically very intimidating. Many ISTJs are, in fact, quite cynical, and may easily recognize the pointlessness of various arbitrary rules, but simply choose not to risk breaking them because the results would be unpredictable, uncontrollable, not studied or planned ahead of time...dangerous.

Si doesn't make people respect all societal traditions on principle; it's really just the attitude that, in most cases, it's much better to play by the book and go with what you know from experience to be safe and effective.
 

NewEra

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Also, ISTJs are not nearly as big conformists as any of their SJ brethren. Typically the most conformist thing they do is obsess over their careers/future financial security. They often really don't give a shit about being overtly social or emotionally supportive or other things that Fe tells SFJs they *should* be doing. (As for ESTJs, they tend to feel that it's their responsibility to be social because they enjoy being around people and see how sociability offers many ways to further their own goals.)

Agreed 100%, very well said. I'm pretty anti-community and usually pursue my own interests, unlike the usual behavior of the other SJs.
 

Little Linguist

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:laugh:

I guess I will have to settle on Sj; perhaps just not your usual, cliched type...

If it makes you feel any better, I'm an ENfp with a lot of T and J qualities - I'm sure it can go the other way as well.
 

Eric B

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^ That one chick with the funny K-name is an ENFP in the military. It happens.

Also, ISTJs are not nearly as big conformists as any of their SJ brethren. Typically the most conformist thing they do is obsess over their careers/future financial security. They often really don't give a shit about being overtly social or emotionally supportive or other things that Fe tells SFJs they *should* be doing. (As for ESTJs, they tend to feel that it's their responsibility to be social because they enjoy being around people and see how sociability offers many ways to further their own goals.)

ISTJs conform in their own way, but it's more in terms of following the rules because that's the safest, most predictable, known way to go--it's not that they mindlessly follow rules like sheep, just that the potential consequences of breaking them are typically very intimidating. Many ISTJs are, in fact, quite cynical, and may easily recognize the pointlessness of various arbitrary rules, but simply choose not to risk breaking them because the results would be unpredictable, uncontrollable, not studied or planned ahead of time...dangerous.

Si doesn't make people respect all societal traditions on principle; it's really just the attitude that, in most cases, it's much better to play by the book and go with what you know from experience to be safe and effective.
I would say that was very accurate from my lifetime experience around many people who I believe are ISTJ.
And also what you say about Si. In fact, I believe SJ corresponds to the behavior set the FIRO test calls "the Rebel" (Leo Ryan's interpretation takes a bit more negative view of the behavior groups, almost similar to Enneagram sometimes). Their concrete need for familiarity causes them to rebel when someone forces them into the unknown, or gets too abstract.
 

simulatedworld

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I would say that was very accurate from my lifetime experience around many people who I believe are ISTJ.

Thanks.

And also what you say about Si. In fact, I believe SJ corresponds to the behavior set the FIRO test calls "the Rebel" (Leo Ryan's interpretation takes a bit more negative view of the behavior groups, almost similar to Enneagram sometimes). Their concrete need for familiarity causes them to rebel when someone forces them into the unknown, or gets too abstract.

Well, yeah, but any type will rebel when put into uncomfortable situations that require exercising too many weaker functions.

ENFPs are all about rebellion when they feel that bureaucracy is unfairly stifling their expressive freedom. It goes both ways.
 

Nonsensical

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Myers Briggs types are simply preferences, remember that. You can have two completely different ISTJs. It's how you prefer to be, not how you are, and the functions and types are way overrated and mistaken to be greater than they really are.

On the other hand, I don't think you are an ISTJ. You could be, maybe I don't know ISTJs too well, but my guts been telling me you're an ISTP for as long as I've known you on here.
 

BlueSky

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Jun 14, 2009
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I consistently test ISTJ, trying to be as honest as I can on any given test (including one like 10 minutes ago). I've tested a dozen times and it's always ISTJ.

*I dislike conformity. It bothers me.
*I hate stupid rules
*I'm irritated by people who follow and enforce stupid rules and that think everyone should be/act a certain way
*I can be pretty lazy and un-dutiful. If I can't see a direct, positive result in completing a given task, I probably won't do it or I'll slack at it - meaning, I don't preoccupy myself with work and busyness just for the sake of being busy.
*I'm not a clean-freak... But I'm not a pig.
*I'm not overly concerned about upholding traditions or at least to the 'T', in fact, a lot of the time, I think it's a little cheesy.
*I don't use spreadsheets, or a day-timer, or really notes at all for that matter.

What am I? Just a fucked up ISTJ?

I can't say whether or not you are an ISTJ, but being as ISTJ myself, I can tell you that those points that you outlined are not qualities that disqualify you as an ISTJ.

-The conformity thing falls under the stupid rules thing. I have no problem with conformity if it logical to conform, however more often than not there is no logical reason to conform, and to conform would require me to change thus provoking a negative reaction.

-Quite simply, stupid rules are stupid. I enjoy ridiculing the illogical and sheepish nature of the people who put them in place and enforce them.

-Anybody who enforces rules that don't make sense is an idiot. There are too many idiots out there and they deserve no better than to be exterminated.

-Same, I don't like working. However, when I can show off as a result of some kind of project then I work very hard. It's all about the ends really. Generally though, procrastination is my best friend. I think the only exception to my work ethic occurs when I tell somebody I will do something. If I give you my word you can count on me to keep it.

-Not a clean freak either. Being a clean freak falls under working.

-Traditions are fine by me if they are rooted in logic. Otherwise, tradition is pointless or in some cases harmful.

-I do use spreadsheets, but I also tend to work on a lot of things that involve math/data.
 

Eric B

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Thanks.
Well, yeah, but any type will rebel when put into uncomfortable situations that require exercising too many weaker functions.

ENFPs are all about rebellion when they feel that bureaucracy is unfairly stifling their expressive freedom. It goes both ways.
My point there was that it might be hard for some to believe that "Rebel" would ever be associated with an SJ "Guardian", but those are the conditions that would lead them to rebel, and FIRO picks up that side of them, while Keirsey/MBTI picks up the faithful-to-the-concrete-institution side of them.
 

Bunco

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Myers Briggs types are simply preferences, remember that. You can have two completely different ISTJs. It's how you prefer to be, not how you are, and the functions and types are way overrated and mistaken to be greater than they really are.

I think this guy nailed it. I agree with absolutely everything in the OP, and yet I've also gotten stuck as an ISTJ on every MBTI test I've taken since I was 13 years old.
What's interesting is that, as a child and young teenager, I was the stereotypical ISTJ and hated it. I saw the personality type as boring and completely lacking in free thought the ability to have any social skills at all. As a result, I began to completely rework the way I viewed the world, particularly in the I and J areas. Now, given enough energy and the right environment, I am able to see the world from other perspectives. I can force myself to draw energy from being around large groups of people similarly to an E and I almost always act as a P would simply because I find it to be a more interesting lifestyle than my natural J.

My point is that your MBTI profile isn't the definite you. Personal decisions and experiences can influence your personality and worldview immensely.
 
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