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View Poll Results: Could I be xsFj?

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  • Yes, you are an isFj.

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  • Yes, you are an esFj.

    2 11.76%
  • Damn it, I've told you once, I've told you a million times, you're eNFp!!!

    12 70.59%
  • You're some other type.

    1 5.88%
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Thread: ISFJ/ESFJ?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    You do seem to have a Te preference...
    For this reason I'm inclined to think it's an XNFP as being teritiary development. Still there's the possability it's because you don't like the descriptions of functions, do you feel that you know them reasonably well?

    ENFP or INFP are the best guesses.
    However INFP is behind the scene style interaction, leaving ENFP. Going into the teaching profession seems to have pushed you to seem ENFJ on the four dichotomy scales. I've ruled out ENFJ because of the lack of Ni in comparison, and ENFP with developed Te makes much more sense.

    ESFJ is out of the question because of the high preference for Ne. This would be the weakest function in ISJs, or teritiary function within ESJs. It's unlikely going to be the most developed, prefered method of thinking.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Hmm, for all the yes answers, Get-Things-Going seems to be the common factor, with some mixed results.
    That would match the high Sanguine score.
    I would say Supine matched NF. But Melancholy was actually the strongest. I have ddebated with someone (either here or in INTPc) who argued NF was Melancholic. Keirsey, of course said NF was Choleric, and that was somewhat high as well.
    But I would still say the Melancholy might be the third area (deep personal relations). Are you someone who is open with people on the surface social level, yet closed on the deep personal level?

    In fact, one of the APS books mentions the Sanguine-Supine-Melancholy. (there are 125 basic temperament combinations, but they discuss only a few of them). This combination is described as needing to socialize (Sanguine), and then needing a few deep personal relationships (Melancholy) to share responsibility for the decisions made (Supine). Does that sound anything like you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    ESFJ is out of the question because of the high preference for Ne. This would be the weakest function in ISJs, or teritiary function within ESJs. It's unlikely going to be the most developed, prefered method of thinking.
    Actually, the tertiary function does "inflate" itself, often in childlike relief. So it may seem preferred. My wife thought she was an N when I first described the functions to her because of her "imaginitiveness", but she is a typical SJ, and Ne fits tertiary more.

    However your arguments for ENFP are convincing.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Actually, the tertiary function does "inflate" itself, often in childlike relief. So it may seem preferred. My wife thought she was an N when I first described the functions to her because of her "imaginitiveness", but she is a typical SJ, and Ne fits tertiary more.
    Oh. How much can it inflate itself by?
    Would it be for this reason the importance of making a distinction between usage and preference? I would have put more stock in the latter being indicative of the function ordering, but perhaps that's a flawed method of figuring out things.

    Guess I'm attempting to understand your wife's scenario. Do you mean that she thought she preferred Ne, but in upon closer inspection it was only teritiary. Or that it somehow inflates itself so that it actually does become the preferred function for a period of time over the top two?

  4. #44
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    IT doesn't become "preferred", it just becomes more prominent, at times. It also "deflates" itself (BTW, I should point out, this is from Beebe's archetype theory. Seems accurate from what I have seen, including my own Si).

    This is why I have often pointed out (especially in Cognitive Process test discussion) that usage (strength) can vary, but actual "preference" order is tied to the archetypes. With my wife; I had simply described N preference, and she said something like "well, I can be that way" (In addition to thinking I was the one who was more S!) Yet while we both use Ne and Si, I prefer one (in a "supporting" role) and she prefers the other.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  5. #45
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Where did you take those tests?
    Cognitive Processes, however I did the numerical evaluation by myself, as I think checking 0, 1, or 2 boxes does not give me enough room to maneuver. So, I created my own system of evaluation based on 0-5 (that's why I explained it, so that you knew what the hell I meant!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    You do seem to have a Te preference...
    For this reason I'm inclined to think it's an XNFP as being teritiary development. Still there's the possability it's because you don't like the descriptions of functions, do you feel that you know them reasonably well?

    ENFP or INFP are the best guesses.
    However INFP is behind the scene style interaction, leaving ENFP. Going into the teaching profession seems to have pushed you to seem ENFJ on the four dichotomy scales. I've ruled out ENFJ because of the lack of Ni in comparison, and ENFP with developed Te makes much more sense.

    ESFJ is out of the question because of the high preference for Ne. This would be the weakest function in ISJs, or teritiary function within ESJs. It's unlikely going to be the most developed, prefered method of thinking.
    Yes, you make a very strong argument. I would say I'm a quiet, organized ENFP, if that makes any sense. My Fi is strong, so I don't go hither and thither - I have a strong sense of morals/values or whatever the hell you want to call it. My organized center probably stems from my developed Te, which I would say really started to kick in in my early 20s, though it poked its head up before at times I needed it. Si is also fairly strong, but active only during stress - tests, completing projects, doing presentations/contests, etc.

    But I would still say the Melancholy might be the third area (deep personal relations). Are you someone who is open with people on the surface social level, yet closed on the deep personal level?
    Yes, definitely. My husband complains about this quite frequently. "How can I know you're upset if you never TALK about anything?" or "I ask you 50 times a day if you are okay, and you say yes, and then one day you just explode!" Um, yeah, I'm getting better at that, but I used to be really bad about it, which is weird, because I am open about everything else religion, politics, philosophy, ideas, science, education; I can talk with almost anybody about ideas or facts, at least superficially, on almost every topic. Except myself. Then I feel like...well, I don't know...

    I
    n fact, one of the APS books mentions the Sanguine-Supine-Melancholy. (there are 125 basic temperament combinations, but they discuss only a few of them). This combination is described as needing to socialize (Sanguine), and then needing a few deep personal relationships (Melancholy) to share responsibility for the decisions made (Supine). Does that sound anything like you?
    Exactly. In fact, when I took the test, I thought "Damn, it's like I'm a combination of Sanguine, Supine and Melancholy. I can't narrow it down to just one, but to stop from appearing like a total idiot who can't make up my mind, I'll narrow it down to two."

    Actually, the tertiary function does "inflate" itself, often in childlike relief. So it may seem preferred. My wife thought she was an N when I first described the functions to her because of her "imaginitiveness", but she is a typical SJ, and Ne fits tertiary more.
    Please define a 'typical SJ', so that I can do some reflection and see if it matches me in any way. Thanks!

    However your arguments for ENFP are convincing.
    Indeed they are, but we shouldn't prematurely shut off any options before exploring them fully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Oh. How much can it inflate itself by?
    Would it be for this reason the importance of making a distinction between usage and preference? I would have put more stock in the latter being indicative of the function ordering, but perhaps that's a flawed method of figuring out things.

    Guess I'm attempting to understand your wife's scenario. Do you mean that she thought she preferred Ne, but in upon closer inspection it was only teritiary. Or that it somehow inflates itself so that it actually does become the preferred function for a period of time over the top two?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    IT doesn't become "preferred", it just becomes more prominent, at times. It also "deflates" itself (BTW, I should point out, this is from Beebe's archetype theory. Seems accurate from what I have seen, including my own Si).

    This is why I have often pointed out (especially in Cognitive Process test discussion) that usage (strength) can vary, but actual "preference" order is tied to the archetypes. With my wife; I had simply described N preference, and she said something like "well, I can be that way" (In addition to thinking I was the one who was more S!) Yet while we both use Ne and Si, I prefer one (in a "supporting" role) and she prefers the other.
    I wonder how this difference would look or manifest itself. Perhaps then I could apply the rationale to me and see if it makes sense...
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Yes, definitely. My husband complains about this quite frequently. "How can I know you're upset if you never TALK about anything?" or "I ask you 50 times a day if you are okay, and you say yes, and then one day you just explode!" Um, yeah, I'm getting better at that, but I used to be really bad about it, which is weird, because I am open about everything else religion, politics, philosophy, ideas, science, education; I can talk with almost anybody about ideas or facts, at least superficially, on almost every topic. Except myself. Then I feel like...well, I don't know...

    Exactly. In fact, when I took the test, I thought "Damn, it's like I'm a combination of Sanguine, Supine and Melancholy. I can't narrow it down to just one, but to stop from appearing like a total idiot who can't make up my mind, I'll narrow it down to two."
    Then it looks like Sanguine-Supine-Melancholy it is. You can put that under your name, or if it doesn't fit, San-Sup-Mel.

    Please define a 'typical SJ', so that I can do some reflection and see if it matches me in any way. Thanks!
    Concrete focused based on what is familiar (memory), with generally a need to order the outside world with their judgment function. Not as much into theory for the sake of theory.
    Indeed they are, but we shouldn't prematurely shut off any options before exploring them fully.
    Of course! But now, the evidence has pointed back to ENFP. Especially, again since you do seem to lean more towards the abstract (i.e. theories about personality).
    I wonder how this difference would look or manifest itself. Perhaps then I could apply the rationale to me and see if it makes sense...
    For Ne, the difference between ENFP and ESFJ would be whether it is your default, most mature, or "heroic" oprocess, or whether it is more childlike and comes up as relief. It would also become "unsettling" at times.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  7. #47
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Then it looks like Sanguine-Supine-Melancholy it is. You can put that under your name, or if it doesn't fit, San-Sup-Mel.
    I can also put it in my signature, thanks!

    Concrete focused based on what is familiar (memory), with generally a need to order the outside world with their judgment function. Not as much into theory for the sake of theory.
    Um, I theorize and think a great deal. I wouldn't say that I'm unable or unwilling to deal with the concrete; I also have a need to order the outside world sometimes. But I don't think it's predominant. It pokes its head up to the surface when needed.

    Of course! But now, the evidence has pointed back to ENFP. Especially, again since you do seem to lean more towards the abstract (i.e. theories about personality).
    For Ne, the difference between ENFP and ESFJ would be whether it is your default, most mature, or "heroic" oprocess, or whether it is more childlike and comes up as relief. It would also become "unsettling" at times.
    During tests and translation, Si becomes quite strong, but it takes a great deal of effort. It works effectively, though! It's usually short-term, though, which is annoying because this leads to me not remembering 5 years later what I had studied before, unless I recall it (in some cases, not even a year later). I typically have a relatively vague impression, general, bird's eye, unless the situation calls for a more concrete, detailed approach.

    I would say that my Te is a relief function, although I'm still not entirely sure what that means. I will go on 'organizing binges' which entails me throwing out a lot of 'junk I haven't used lately' and reorganizing everything according to a precise structure. It doesn't last long, however, and in my rushed nature, the system gets spoiled, which is why I need to sit once a week and reorganize everything.

    When I go on one of these organizing binges, I don't want to be distracted. I become narrowly focused and prefer not to have company. This narrow focus allows me to shut off my Ne and pesky, annoying as hell Fi, my randomly wandering mind, and focus on the task at hand. This is particularly helpful if I'm angry or stressed. Working out helps as well, during which time I develop a process and a structure, I compete with myself, focusing on the numbers rolling by. This allows me to shut off the other functions and helps me 'gain perspective.'

    Is that what you mean?

    That being said, I can appear quite 'child-like' when the Ne/Fi combination is out there. Very idealistic. Very dreamy, romantic whatever the hell you want to call it. Optimistic. Thinking the world is GOOD, with a kind of naivete that some people could call childlike. Hmm...playful, crazy, silly....especially by more stoic or serious standards...Not sure.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    I can also put it in my signature, thanks!

    Um, I theorize and think a great deal.
    That's what I was saying. So that would suggest an N over S preference.
    I wouldn't say that I'm unable or unwilling to deal with the concrete; I also have a need to order the outside world sometimes. But I don't think it's predominant. It pokes its head up to the surface when needed.

    During tests and translation, Si becomes quite strong, but it takes a great deal of effort. It works effectively, though! It's usually short-term, though, which is annoying because this leads to me not remembering 5 years later what I had studied before, unless I recall it (in some cases, not even a year later). I typically have a relatively vague impression, general, bird's eye, unless the situation calls for a more concrete, detailed approach.
    That would pretty much sound like Si in an inferior position.
    I would say that my Te is a relief function, although I'm still not entirely sure what that means. I will go on 'organizing binges' which entails me throwing out a lot of 'junk I haven't used lately' and reorganizing everything according to a precise structure. It doesn't last long, however, and in my rushed nature, the system gets spoiled, which is why I need to sit once a week and reorganize everything.

    When I go on one of these organizing binges, I don't want to be distracted. I become narrowly focused and prefer not to have company. This narrow focus allows me to shut off my Ne and pesky, annoying as hell Fi, my randomly wandering mind, and focus on the task at hand. This is particularly helpful if I'm angry or stressed. Working out helps as well, during which time I develop a process and a structure, I compete with myself, focusing on the numbers rolling by. This allows me to shut off the other functions and helps me 'gain perspective.'

    Is that what you mean?
    Yes, that sounds like the tertiary or relief position, both inflating and deflating itself. Berens describes it as "They can enjoy organizing data, space or clutter to make life low better". (With TJ's, it is described in a more serious fashion).
    That being said, I can appear quite 'child-like' when the Ne/Fi combination is out there. Very idealistic. Very dreamy, romantic whatever the hell you want to call it. Optimistic. Thinking the world is GOOD, with a kind of naivete that some people could call childlike. Hmm...playful, crazy, silly....especially by more stoic or serious standards...Not sure.
    Well, that definitely sounds ENFP! (That doesn't make Ne or Fi the "child" {tertiary} archetype, though. They are the hero and parent, and Ne does seem to have a childlikeness to it of its own).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  9. #49
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    That's what I was saying. So that would suggest an N over S preference.
    That would pretty much sound like Si in an inferior position.

    Yes, now that you mention it, I agree. Si saves the day when nothing else works.

    Yes, that sounds like the tertiary or relief position, both inflating and deflating itself. Berens describes it as "They can enjoy organizing data, space or clutter to make life low better". (With TJ's, it is described in a more serious fashion).
    YES; YES Right!!!!!!!!! I enjoy making my life simpler, if for no other reason than it helps me to find things. I get tremendous, well yes, relief!!! when I organize things and make my life simpler to handle. Then I can focus my attention on more interesting things.

    Te pokes its head out when I want to make a convincing argument. It reared its head all the time at university, especially when I wanted to write papers.

    Ironically, I think that's why I always procrastinated - because then I did A BETTER JOB. I think then my inferior values, Te and Si overtook my Ne and Fi, although they played a role too...It was like if I had a paper due, a flood of ideas stormed my brain, and I picked the 'good' ideas from the 'bad' ideas by filtering them through my Te and seeing which one I could formulate the best. Then, because I had only one night to complete it, I scanned books and important, relevant facts just JUMPED out at me. My brain was going a million miles a second. Sifting here, sorting there, wondering how that would fit in my argument. Then Te took over and sorted everything into an organized, constructive way. Then Si jumped out again, analyzing the grammar, the punctuation, the spelling. Then Ni/Ti (I think) jumped to the rescue to analyze the flow and cadence, the sense, the logic, the whatever, to see how each part fit into the next. IT WORKED!!!

    But the problem is that if I took my time, Ne and Fi worked overtime, and the result wasn't as good. I would skip here and there, I wouldn't be analytical - I would be overly emotive. Whereas if I just waited to the last second until I was freaking out and neurons and synapses were working overtime (with the help of some coffee muhahaha) I managed to make everything work great and get at least a B+, mostly A- or even A. Otherwise, at most a B, sometimes a C.

    Ironically, I think the worse last minute paper I wrote got a very impressive reaction from my professor. She said:

    I've never seen such a logically laid out paper, without any syntax mistakes of any kind, that flows so well and effortlessly that HAS NO THESIS!!!!!

    HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

    (I got a B for that!)

    Well, that definitely sounds ENFP! (That doesn't make Ne or Fi the "child" {tertiary} archetype, though. They are the hero and parent, and Ne does seem to have a childlikeness to it of its own).
    Well, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Perhaps it's a lack of knowledge on my part. I think it's the jargon you're using. What do you mean by 'that doesn't make Ne or Fi or Te archetype'? Or the 'hero' and 'parent'? I mean I can guess from context, but I don't want to jump to conclusions (as is often my character and usually gets me into trouble !)
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  10. #50
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Those are John Beebe's "Eight Process Model" concepts (assumed you were familiar with them, since they are used here all the time).
    The tertiary is "the child" archetype, and hence you finding relief through your Te.. I was just clarifying that though you said you were childlike with your Ne/Fi, that didn;t make one of them the tertiary (to fit the archetype).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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