User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 70

Thread: Random thought

  1. #21
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,877

    Default

    Well I agree entirely that INTPs do have F of some sort in their bones.. even if the ones here bury them behind mounds of bs..

    But honestly, it's your voice, your tone, and how passionately you argued things like spanking your children that make me lean on the F more than the T. Your sense of right or wrong is very absolute, a more J quality imo, but mayhap you're confusing a strong J for T? Efficient, logical things can also stem from a J mindset. INFJs don't have to me insane, illogical people. They just happen to like taking on that trait
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  2. #22
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Well I agree entirely that INTPs do have F of some sort in their bones.. even if the ones here bury them behind mounds of bs..

    But honestly, it's your voice, your tone, and how passionately you argued things like spanking your children that make me lean on the F more than the T. Your sense of right or wrong is very absolute, a more J quality imo, but mayhap you're confusing a strong J for T? Efficient, logical things can also stem from a J mindset. INFJs don't have to me insane, illogical people. They just happen to like taking on that trait
    The INTPs I know can get pretty damn passionate when arguing a point, especially a value judgment, because they believe they have analyzed it better than others. My roommate gets way more passionate than I in debate.

  3. #23
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,877

    Default

    Well I dunno. It's only my two cents. If you pondering not being an INFJ then you're going to change your type regardless of the sentiments of those that disagree.

    I think if you're doubting it in the first place, it's a good indicator that you're not satisfied with it. Just know that whatever stigmas and stereotypes you're coming across with INFJ will carry over to INTP, they'll just be different. So I'd make sure I was happy with the conversion entirely first. You seem really advent about not being an INFJ like it's such a bad thing..
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  4. #24
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    I don't know you very well, so I have no first hand experience when it comes to your thought processes, but being an INFJ with a highly developed relief Ti [considering what you stated about your mother, an overstressed Fe can lead to the emergence of a powerful relief Ti to cope] makes more sense than Ne that kinda looks like Ni when Ti is involved, but then Si is completely bypassed as relief for development of inferior Fe, and then maybe you just never noticed before because every INTP on this site exaggerate and suppress various functions for no apparent reason.

    Also, logical thought is a tool, and a faculty of every human mind, not really just Ti "users." It seems as though you use Ti and "logic" rather interchangeably, when I think they're quite separate. You're perfectly capable of loving logic as someone who primarily judges information based on Fe criteria for decision making.



  5. #25
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    xxxx
    Posts
    1,256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    The INTPs I know can get pretty damn passionate when arguing a point, especially a value judgment, because they believe they have analyzed it better than others. My roommate gets way more passionate than I in debate.
    How do you know they're not INFJs mistyped as INTPs?

    I don't have anywhere enough information here to work with. I still haven't the slightest idea about how your thought process works. Until I actually see statistical evidence, I can't make a call about your type whatsoever.

    That being said, I do have enough information in this thread to make some analysis. It seems awfully apparent that you desire to not be an INFJ, and would prefer to be one of the "logical" types. This would probably stem from stereotypes about feelers being irrational and whatnot. Given that you have apparently displayed a strong Ti, INTP would be the most probable of NT types that you could fit into.

    (keeping in mind that the "Either-or" fallacy is an informal fallacy, I proceed.)
    In this situation, if you were an INFJ whom didn't want to be an INFJ, you would likely be having a "false-rational" moment where you believe one point and use whatever evidence you can scrape up to support your case. If this scenario were true, the "I'm too logical/ have too strong of a Ti for an F" and "The Fe could have been conditioned" would fit the bill of the aforementioned evidence.

    Another possible scenario is that you an INTP whom was previously mistyped as an INFJ and, given some contemplation time, has discovered that they are actually an INTP. In this scenario, you are an INTP who thinks they are an INTP, but you are not fully confident of this hypothesis. Also in this scenario, you've already reasoned that any behavior you have that could be attributed to an INFJ was generated from a combination of gradual conditioning and some form of Forer effect.

    I do not have sufficient evidence argue for either scenario. It is up to you to determine which one applies. However, the small amount of evidence I do have inclines me to favor the first scenario.

    PS: As always, don't be too quick to rule out other types, especially the intermediate types between INTP and INFJ. (INFP and INTJ)
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  6. #26
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Well I dunno. It's only my two cents. If you pondering not being an INFJ then you're going to change your type regardless of the sentiments of those that disagree.

    I think if you're doubting it in the first place, it's a good indicator that you're not satisfied with it. Just know that whatever stigmas and stereotypes you're coming across with INFJ will carry over to INTP, they'll just be different. So I'd make sure I was happy with the conversion entirely first. You seem really advent about not being an INFJ like it's such a bad thing..
    Nothing to do with whether I'm satisfied with the INFJ stereotypes (which I'm not, but I'm not with INTP either...)

    I don't think being an INFJ is a bad thing. I just think saying I'm an INFJ if I'm really an INTP is a bad thing

    I just want the correct answer.

    But yeah, most likely I'll come up with it myself and not listen to any of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I don't know you very well, so I have no first hand experience when it comes to your thought processes, but being an INFJ with a highly developed relief Ti [considering what you stated about your mother, an overstressed Fe can lead to the emergence of a powerful relief Ti to cope] makes more sense than Ne that kinda looks like Ni when Ti is involved, but then Si is completely bypassed as relief for development of inferior Fe, and then maybe you just never noticed before because every INTP on this site exaggerate and suppress various functions for no apparent reason.
    Yeah, I was thinking exactly this. INFJ might make more sense (have a higher prior probability?), but that still doesn't mean INFJ is the most likely given the combination of prior and data.

    Also, logical thought is a tool, and a faculty of every human mind, not really just Ti "users." It seems as though you use Ti and "logic" rather interchangeably, when I think they're quite separate. You're perfectly capable of loving logic as someone who primarily judges information based on Fe criteria for decision making.
    I'm not using logic as analogous with Ti, although Ti is probably closer to "pure" logic than Te since it feeds on itself instead of environmental information. Doesn't matter much, though, as T is just deductive logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    How do you know they're not INFJs mistyped as INTPs?
    Well, I don't. But you can always use that argument, so it doesn't matter.

    I don't have anywhere enough information here to work with. I still haven't the slightest idea about how your thought process works. Until I actually see statistical evidence, I can't make a call about your type whatsoever.

    That being said, I do have enough information in this thread to make some analysis. It seems awfully apparent that you desire to not be an INFJ, and would prefer to be one of the "logical" types. This would probably stem from stereotypes about feelers being irrational and whatnot. Given that you have apparently displayed a strong Ti, INTP would be the most probable of NT types that you could fit into.
    No no, it really doesn't have to do with not wanting to be INFJ. I just want to be correct. I never really entertained INTP as a possibility (although I've always maintained it was a close 2nd best fit type) until now.

    (keeping in mind that the "Either-or" fallacy is an informal fallacy, I proceed.)
    In this situation, if you were an INFJ whom didn't want to be an INFJ, you would likely be having a "false-rational" moment where you believe one point and use whatever evidence you can scrape up to support your case. If this scenario were true, the "I'm too logical/ have too strong of a Ti for an F" and "The Fe could have been conditioned" would fit the bill of the aforementioned evidence.
    Yes, it could be confirmation bias, which is why I'm trying to take two stances in my analysis. I have to assume I'm INFJ and try to prove INTP wrong, then I have to assume I'm INTP and try to prove INFJ wrong. Then I have to compare the two analyses.

    Another possible scenario is that you an INTP whom was previously mistyped as an INFJ and, given some contemplation time, has discovered that they are actually an INTP. In this scenario, you are an INTP who thinks they are an INTP, but you are not fully confident of this hypothesis. Also in this scenario, you've already reasoned that any behavior you have that could be attributed to an INFJ was generated from a combination of gradual conditioning and some form of Forer effect.
    Right. This is the possibility I was considering when I made this thread.

    I do not have sufficient evidence argue for either scenario. It is up to you to determine which one applies. However, the small amount of evidence I do have inclines me to favor the first scenario.

    PS: As always, don't be too quick to rule out other types, especially the intermediate types between INTP and INFJ. (INFP and INTJ)
    I will definitely rule out INTJ and INFP, though, as Te and Fi are some of my weakest two functions, in tests, but more importantly, through study and introspection.

    And yes, it seems more likely overall to have an INFJ mistyping as INTP than an INTP mistyping as INFJ. But (do you know bayes rule?) that's only one part of the total likelihood of my type being one or the other.

  7. #27
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    xxxx
    Posts
    1,256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Right. This is the possibility I was considering when I made this thread.
    Of course. I've made my own "Am I an INTP?" thread. I know the feeling. I suspect our two threads aren't completely unrelated. Perchance your thoughts about possibly being an INTP were brought to your conscious mind after reading my thread?

    And yes, it seems more likely overall to have an INFJ mistyping as INTP than an INTP mistyping as INFJ. But (do you know bayes rule?) that's only one part of the total likelihood of my type being one or the other.
    Statistics is one of my foremost affinities. Of course, why bet on chance when you don't have to? Instead of making a judgment call based simply on the chance of you being either type, why don't you try for some empirical evidence? My advice is to go test the two theories against a final cognitive functions test. (which, of course, you will take as objectively as possible)
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  8. #28
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Can't being a Ti dom make Ne look more like Ni, just because Ti is so focused on the internal standard?

    It's just that I use Ti more than anyone else I know except other INTPs (of which I know 3, I realized), and even compared with them I seem pretty obsessed with logic.

    Developed Fe could easily just be a response to my environment. I was heavily influenced by predicting my mother's craziness, forcing me to come up with a consistent value system for how one should act so that I could figure out when I should accept what she was doing or not. Also, my first girlfriend was ENFJ, and her mode of thought completely changed the way I interacted from then on (plus, she died, so there was all this weird psychology regarding carrying on her role and understanding of people).

    I rarely ever make value judgments in any conversation, I just argue for consistency, regardless of whether or not I think the viewpoint is "right".
    Yeah; I've never seen you making value judgments, at least not more than any other T in a debate. You more than many always reminded me of the popular type theorists, who are mostly NTP. Though I did not see these earlier "venting" posts Kyuuei mentioned. Perhaps that was under stress or something. Or the influence of NFJ's you mentioned.

    Also, didn't you once wear INTP? I know you used to have the MyPersonality badge, which said "INTP", if not here, then on INTPc and/or the Spam Pudding.

    As for Ne/Ni, what you had long ago said on the Pudding about Ne+Ti looking like Te made sense, and even helped me out. I'm not sure if Ne+Ti would look like Ni. Maybe a little, inasmuch as it is intuition connected with an internal "underlying framework" analysis. Sometimes, Ni and Ti sound similar. Just that one is perception and the other, decision making.

    But again, a lot of INTP's do seem to have strong Ni. So to repeat, this whole thing will probably be solved by really looking at Ne and Ni and determining which is your primary perception process. Does look kind of like Ne, the way you handle the theories. Ni+Fe would be very different, and is more about the personal aspect of the theories, such as self-improvement and growth. Aux. Fe would "support" others with those things, and Ni would speak with more certainty, from what I gather.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  9. #29
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    I know one INFJ with poorly developed Fe so that you mostly just see Ni/Ti and he comes off as incredibly introverted and almost entirely out of touch with the outer world.

    But you could certainly be an INTP with well-developed Fe.

    Do you think you are more internally or externally organized?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #30
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I know one INFJ with poorly developed Fe so that you mostly just see Ni/Ti and he comes off as incredibly introverted and almost entirely out of touch with the outer world.

    But you could certainly be an INTP with well-developed Fe.

    Do you think you are more internally or externally organized?
    Internally by 1247849283749872397847619868976x.

Similar Threads

  1. Another Random Thought
    By Matthew_Z in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 08-08-2009, 05:10 AM
  2. Random thoughts on Intuition and Sensing
    By Travo7 in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 06-24-2009, 06:01 PM
  3. Random thought
    By /DG/ in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-06-2009, 12:32 AM
  4. Random thoughts
    By LeetoLydia in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-22-2008, 05:56 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO