User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 86

  1. #11
    Senior Member snegledmaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Socionics
    SLI
    Posts
    145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, he did seem angry. He used an exclamation point and question mark, and presumed I had a problem I wasn't mentioning. So I was just trying to calm him down. I don't know what I did to offend him, but I must have done something.
    The general comfort with the emotional side of things it is what struck me. For example, I'd expect a rational type to make a reason based response, not an ethical one. Especially a supposed Ti dominant.

    Well, the thing is, I can relate to MBTI descriptions of Ni and Se to some degree, but not to Socionic descriptions of it. In Socionics, Ne is a better fit... I don't know why. And Socionic Se... yikes, it's all about power. It seems reinforced by my disagreement with Gamma and Beta quadra values compared to Alpha and Delta.
    What about your quadra values? I'd say one's quadra values are important and are where, IMO, one's type is revealed.

    How do you generally feel about the Ti/Fe - Fi/Te difference? Would you say you value Ti/Fe or Fi/Te?

  2. #12
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca View Post
    The general comfort with the emotional side of things it is what struck me. For example, I'd expect a rational type to make a reason based response, not an ethical one. Especially a supposed Ti dominant.
    Yeah. I'm fairly comfortable with my emotional side compared to those types.
    What about your quadra values? I'd say one's quadra values are important and are where, IMO, one's type is revealed.

    How do you generally feel about the Ti/Fe - Fi/Te difference? Would you say you value Ti/Fe or Fi/Te?
    Well, again... it depends on MBTI or Socionics. In MBTI I value Fe, but in Socionics I don't like it. I'm pretty sure I value Fi over Fe in Socionics, but I'm not sure about Ti or Te. I'm pretty sure I value MBTI Ti over Te, but in Socionics the lines seem more blurred, though I'm more aware of using Ti.

    Am I confusing you yet?

    It literally feels almost like Socionics turns my functional preferences inside-out.

  3. #13
    Senior Member snegledmaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Socionics
    SLI
    Posts
    145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, again... it depends on MBTI or Socionics. In MBTI I value Fe, but in Socionics I don't like it. I'm pretty sure I value Fi over Fe in Socionics, but I'm not sure about Ti or Te. I'm pretty sure I value MBTI Ti over Te, but in Socionics the lines seem more blurred, though I'm more aware of using Ti.

    Am I confusing you yet?

    It literally feels almost like Socionics turns my functional preferences inside-out.
    That's because they use the same names for different things. For example, there is no equivalent of socionics Se in MBTT.

    Well if you think you value Fi over Fe then that pulls valued Te over Ti. And if you are a EII, that would make LSE your dual. And they have dominant Te. That is, if you are EII you would value Te. How come you're not sure about Ti and Te? And why do you say you value Fi over Fe? Elaborate.

  4. #14
    deleted
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,946

    Default

    Okay, I'm going to keep trying to help even though you seemed to dodge my response.

    Ti/Fe types are "merry," and Fi/Te types are "serious," of traditional quadra dichotomy.

    Here are definitions of Ti and Fi in terms of the first function (leading.)

    Ti logic is inertial. Instead of “making things work”, it rather focuses on elimination of contradictions, on systematization, or in more general meaning – on “justice” (if it only exists). The types for which this function is dominant are often not too energetic, they are rather stable-mooded, work without noticeable “falls” and “rises”, logical and reticent in their sayings and deeds. On the one hand, other people respect them for being “just”, for their cold and sober analysis of situations; on the other, they do not “feel people” well.

    Fi is inertial; many emotions are inside such a person, but they do not go outwards, and rather stay “conserved”. Such people are very passionate in evaluating other people, but from outside they seem to be “emotionless”, smiling just as much as etiquette requires. They are good spectators of relations: in a small collective, they very quickly feel who has which relations with whom. They can work with people – as lawyers, pedagogues, etc. However, being so attentive to people's relations, they do not like, even more, they are afraid of “intellectual initiative”, do not like arguing, because it can “break” or just significantly change relations with other people.

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca View Post
    That's because they use the same names for different things. For example, there is no equivalent of socionics Se in MBTT.
    Ah, I kind of thought they were for different things. Most people insist that it's the same thing, though.
    Well if you think you value Fi over Fe then that pulls valued Te over Ti. And if you are a EII, that would make LSE your dual. And they have dominant Te. That is, if you are EII you would value Te. How come you're not sure about Ti and Te? And why do you say you value Fi over Fe? Elaborate.
    Okay, that's easy enough.

    Socionics Fe just seems goofy and shallow, and mostly about expressing your own feelings and being in the moment. Like the kids I used to dislike in High School. It reminds me of what I disliked about MBTI Se. Fi is more the "political correctness" and concern with propriety thing in Socionics, while in MBTI Fe had that role.

    Now, with MBTI Te, it's just all about achieving goals efficiently and making people work together, which is nice but not a priority. Socionics Te includes that, but throws in more things like citing sources and judging ability/intelligence. Ti is still pretty much Ti. The added weight to Te makes it look more appealing, but I'm still drawn to the precision of Ti as well.

    Did any of that make sense?

  6. #16
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercy View Post
    Okay, I'm going to keep trying to help even though you seemed to dodge my response.
    That wasn't intentional. I just started on page 2, so I missed it. Anyway, that's good advice. And yes, I do sort of suspect Se PoLR. That power stuff freaks me out.
    Ti/Fe types are "merry," and Fi/Te types are "serious," of traditional quadra dichotomy.
    Oh, well I'd definitely say I'm more serious than merry in general.

    Ti logic is inertial. Instead of “making things work”, it rather focuses on elimination of contradictions, on systematization, or in more general meaning – on “justice” (if it only exists). The types for which this function is dominant are often not too energetic, they are rather stable-mooded, work without noticeable “falls” and “rises”, logical and reticent in their sayings and deeds. On the one hand, other people respect them for being “just”, for their cold and sober analysis of situations; on the other, they do not “feel people” well.
    See, I do focus on eliminating contradictions and systemization, but not on "justice." I don't consider Justice logical, but rather ideal. I tend to try and explain things fully and elaborate, giving examples rather than being reticent.
    Fi is inertial; many emotions are inside such a person, but they do not go outwards, and rather stay “conserved”. Such people are very passionate in evaluating other people, but from outside they seem to be “emotionless”, smiling just as much as etiquette requires. They are good spectators of relations: in a small collective, they very quickly feel who has which relations with whom. They can work with people – as lawyers, pedagogues, etc. However, being so attentive to people's relations, they do not like, even more, they are afraid of “intellectual initiative”, do not like arguing, because it can “break” or just significantly change relations with other people.
    I'm mostly like this, except I'm not afraid of arguing a point logically. Sometimes I do take intellectual initiative and attack a point, especially if I'm in an environment where that's considered acceptable.

  7. #17
    deleted
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,946

    Default

    From my own understanding that I've shared with others, introverted functions are more inclined to regard and value the truth of the element, where as extroverted functions are more inclined to regard and value the elements use.

    So introverted feeling is cold truth regarding ethics. Not in search for something one can use on the spot, like Fe to brighten one with emotions and improve the situation through carrying the emotional weight of the group, rather a cold understanding, the meaning of the words. Same with introverted thinking. It doesn't have to be useful, rather urges for a complete understanding of the logical system. Fi/Te valuer would rather have the "logic" in form of how useful it is, and usually make personal use for ethics. Introverts making implications rather than movements. The opposite goes for Ti/Fe. Most logical implications can easily be generalized from this understanding.

  8. #18
    deleted
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,946

    Default

    The role function, which would be the one you didn't chose, if you are an INxj, is what confirms you when it comes to needing improvement in social situations. You try to put on this face of "role" until you can find a comfort zone in the conversation and make your way to your leading function. If that is Fi, then at first you would show a somewhat artificial face of Ti (not necessarily expressing it or communicating it, but being ready with it) which you don't value or are strong in, but it most easily goes with balancing your overly used Fi, so Ti would temporarily block with Ne until you were at the point of "letting go" and being yourself, feeling comfortable expressing Fi.

  9. #19
    deleted
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,946

    Default

    If you are Fi leading, then you are Te seeking or accepting. You long for help in this area, and expression of this weak function gives you the confidence to express it yourself. It is the leading strength of your dual. Duality and relationships alike are what defines socionics in terms of practical application. If you feel as though the ESTj is not your dual, then either your understanding of duality is off, your understanding of the ESTj is off or easily misinformed by MBTI stereotypes, or you are not an EII. There is theoretically no exception for a fault, since socionics works as a whole. Relations are the tools of socionics. No person is less human than you.

  10. #20
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercy View Post
    The role function, which would be the one you didn't chose, if you are an INxj, is what confirms you when it comes to needing improvement in social situations. You try to put on this face of "role" until you can find a comfort zone in the conversation and make your way to your leading function. If that is Fi, then at first you would show a somewhat artificial face of Ti (not necessarily expressing it or communicating it, but being ready with it) which you don't value or are strong in, but it most easily goes with balancing your overly used Fi, so Ti would temporarily block with Ne until you were at the point of "letting go" and being yourself, feeling comfortable expressing Fi.
    Well, that's really hard to tell. There are some emotions I would only share with people I knew well. But there are other emotions I "fake" around people I don't trust, but if I knew them I would criticize them.

    For instance, I once felt rather annoyed with someone because they referred to a PM as an e-mail, and that was technically inaccurate. Also, I often like to correct people's grammar if it's off. Finally, I got really annoyed when someone told someone else about the J/P switch for Introverts in Socionics/MBTI conversion being an explaination for why their J/P didn't match up, and I insisted on pointing out that the switch doesn't always work, and that you can't actually convert the types. I was confused when they justified by saying their explanation was reasonable "at the level of the conversation." I couldn't understand how that justified dissiminating incorrect information.

    In MBTI, I'm pretty sure that would be Ti. What about Socionics?

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 04-03-2014, 08:28 AM
  2. Your MBTI type and your Socionics type
    By 527468 in forum Socionics
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 11-28-2008, 04:03 PM
  3. [ENTJ] ENTJ/other types - difference or mystique?
    By LeonardoLestat in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-18-2008, 03:07 PM
  4. My Twin Sister's Type: INFJ or INFP?
    By Mondo in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-29-2008, 02:38 PM
  5. easyTIM - socionic type assessment
    By machintruc in forum Online Personality Tests
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 02-08-2008, 10:39 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO