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Thread: The Untyped

  1. #61
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    Funny how different perspectives seem. I thought your argument was very much of the "Everyone knows conformity is bad, all brave people refuse to conform" mold. It seemed that you were very closed off to any alternative argument. Guess we just spent a lot of time talking past each other.
    Or looking in different directions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    My ISTJ dad is not a conformist. He can seem incredibly non-conformist, but he sticks to his values/philosophy/ideals no matter what. If you are dominant Si I don't think it's about the group as much as your personal worldview, what with it being an introverted function and all.
    Interesting about your dad. I definitely relate. What other ways would you describe him? I'm not sure I know any other ISTJs, so it might be helpful for me to have some real world examples for comparison.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Or looking in different directions.
    Uh... ok.

  4. #64
    Junior Member Claide's Avatar
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    No one ever responded to:

    On a sidenote, can one be an INTJ and despise Ayn Rand?
    This made me laugh (one of my best friends is an INTJ, and her favorite book is The Fountainhead). Against all of my pluralist INFJ sensibilities, the answer is probably "no".

    Ruthie, I'm not sure. You are certainly a well-balanced person. Based solely on your communication skills, I would have pegged you for an N. In fact, a lot on your SJ list works for certain NJs. In any case, keep us posted on your findings.

    UPDATE: My father is an ISTJ. He's very pragmatic, loyal, and disciplined (although, terrible at communicating his thoughts in writing - something you are quite good at). He's more interested in the application than the ideal (consequently, he makes his arguments with examples, not ideas). Sometimes he can come off as being too cold or logical, but he is affectionate towards people he's close to. In the same way, he's generally quiet in a crowd of strangers, but he can talk your ear off if he knows you. I'd say that dad can deal with concept and theory, but only small doses. The moment it gets too abstract, he loses interest (for him, if it has no practical value, it has no value whatsoever).

  5. #65
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    That's one of the things that's causing the most difficulty in my typing. I THINK like a J, but I ACT like a P. Unless I'm comfortable in a situation - then I think the J part shows up more.
    That most probably means you're a P. Remember that Perceiving people are Ps because they show an externally flexible attitude; their rigid Judgment is internal, hence your description that you "think like a J."

    Judgers are actually more internally flexible than Perceivers. They are called Judgers simply because they extrovert the Judgment function T/F and introvert the Perceiving one S/N.

    Random first guess based on very little information: INFP.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #66
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claide View Post
    No one ever responded to: "On a sidenote, can one be an INTJ and despise Ayn Rand?"

    This made me laugh (one of my best friends is an INTJ, and her favorite book is The Fountainhead). Against all of my pluralist INFJ sensibilities, the answer is probably "no".
    Guess that's one type down then.

    Ruthie, I'm not sure. You are certainly a well-balanced person. Based solely on your communication skills, I would have pegged you for an N. In fact, a lot on your SJ list works for certain NJs. In any case, keep us posted on your findings.
    Thanks. When I look letter by letter, the N/S split leans in favor of N (not by a huge margin, but consistently). But, when I look at the temperaments, I feel like I MUST be an SJ. It's the only one that even remotely sounds like me. Also, when I look at the functions, I definitely have very high Si. But I don't even know that I fully understand what Ni is or how it works. None of the definitions of Ni click with me.

    UPDATE: My father is an ISTJ. He's very pragmatic, loyal, and disciplined (although, terrible at communicating his thoughts in writing - something you are quite good at). He's more interested in the application than the ideal (consequently, he makes his arguments with examples, not ideas). Sometimes he can come off as being too cold or logical, but he is affectionate towards people he's close to. In the same way, he's generally quiet in a crowd of strangers, but he can talk your ear off if he knows you. I'd say that dad can deal with concept and theory, but only small doses. The moment it gets too abstract, he loses interest (for him, if it has no practical value, it has no value whatsoever).
    Hmm... something to think about. Some of this sounds like me, but I'm not sure it's a perfect fit. Interesting about his reaction to something with no practical value. Some of the SJ descriptions suggest that SJs are only (or mainly) interested in "real world" concepts. If that's the qualifier, I fit. When "real world" is substituted for something like "applicable to their lives/work," it loses me. I have tons of intellectual interests that have nothing to do with my personal life or work. But they also all deal with reality. I've never been interested in sci-fi, fantasy, or anything involving the "future."

    Thanks for the compliment about communicating my thoughts in writing; I always figured that would be in keeping with Si - just, organizing thoughts, you know? I'm actually pretty terrible at any kind of creative writing, but always enjoyed writing position papers that required me to lay out an argument - and those arguments are just as often theory-based as fact-based.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    That most probably means you're a P. Remember that Perceiving people are Ps because they show an externally flexible attitude; their rigid Judgment is internal, hence your description that you "think like a J."

    Judgers are actually more internally flexible than Perceivers. They are called Judgers simply because they extrovert the Judgment function T/F and introvert the Perceiving one S/N.

    Random first guess based on very little information: INFP.
    Just to expand:

    1. I have an opinion on most things, and offer it readily. I'm also decisive and like predictability. (Je)
    2. I hate planning, am somewhat disorganized, and I'm a procrastinator. (Pe)

    That's what I mean by the way I think vs. the way I act. Is that more in keeping with extroverting the perceiving function?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post

    1. I have an opinion on most things, and offer it readily. I'm also decisive and like predictability. (Je)
    2. I hate planning, am somewhat disorganized, and I'm a procrastinator. (Pe)

    You sound a lot like me.

  9. #69
    brainheart
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    What about E/ISFJ?

    I definitely get a Fe vs. Fi feel from you- how you went out of your way to PM me, etc. You seem to have more of a group focus/ethic than I have ever had. I don't reach out, I respond.

    I would definitely say you are an S. Everything you say fits the definition of a sensor, which basically boils down to being more practical minded than abstract.

    Introverted Sensing

    What does this necessarily have to do with planning, organizing?

    Although, my ISFJ mother in law and my ISTJ dad's lives revolve around planning and organization. It's like what they do to relax. Although my dad's desk can be a mess. But whatever he is organizing, he does this in a very meticulous, orderly fashion- but I would guess that's Si+Te. To my mother-in-law it just seems to come naturally. It's like she doesn't know how to be messy or disorganized. Completely mind-boggling to me. So maybe not Si dom...

    You seem like more of a feeler than a thinker to me. I know that's not all that scientific, but you just do.

    Maybe you could read this:
    Tertiary Temptation
    Sometimes I think that's the best way to figure it out.

    I'm leaning toward ESFJ.

  10. #70
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    First of all - thanks for the welcome. Seems like a very friendly board so far.

    The arguments:

    E/I

    -I talk a lot. As obnoxious as it sounds, I probably talk more than I listen.
    -I'm comfortable giving group presentations (and often excel at them)
    -Sometimes I'll speak before thinking
    -I think out loud
    -I'm always happy to share my latest idea/thought/opinion

    BUT...

    -I like a lot of alone time
    -I enjoy solitary walks
    -I often dodge phone calls from friends
    -I have a hard time approaching new people
    -I can be very private

    N/S

    -I think in patterns, metaphors, theories, analogies, etc...
    -I usually see the big picture
    -I'm completely unobservant
    -I'm comfortable with concepts
    -I miss details
    -I link seemingly unrelated pieces of information
    -I have a tough time following rules and procedures

    BUT...

    -I value loyalty, community, family, tradition, etc...
    -I have good hand-eye coordination
    -I don't have near-supernatural hunches
    -I have a good memory for dates
    -I love history

    T/F

    -I love to debate ideas and theory
    -I don't mind conflict - actually enjoy it sometimes
    -I have a tough time showing emotion, and can come across as awkward when I try
    -I usually lay out a position in point-by-point form
    -I'm uncomfortable with casual physical contact
    -I'm very analytical

    BUT...

    -I always side with my friends and family, even if it's irrational
    -I'm not cold or emotionless
    -I've gravitated toward Feeler jobs
    -I go into things knowing which "side" I'm on, as opposed to taking an objective approach

    J/P

    -I see things in terms of Right and Wrong
    -I like structure
    -I tend to piece things together in a hierarchical order (Thing A is BETTER than Thing B...)
    -I like to have order in my world - and I can have high expectations of the people close to me
    -I don't have much of a need for adventure or spontaneity (wow, I sound fun)

    BUT...

    -I'm not all that ambitious
    -I procrastinate a lot
    -Most people who have worked for me would describe me as laid back
    -My desk is messy (even though my house is clean)
    -I'm certainly not a workaholic
    -I'm usually pretty friendly with people
    -I like to laugh and joke around; I'm certainly not overly serious
    I just re-read through this and it sounds like you're describing my mom, who I think is an ESFJ. (I've had a hard time typing her, too, but I'm definitely leaning toward ESFJ for her.)

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