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Thread: The Untyped

  1. #151
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    My preference is for finalizing decisions. That's making this particular consideration and re-consideration of type a bit outside my comfort zone . I will say that I see some of the points in SpaceOddity's evaluation, but also a number of holes. For one thing, I often play the role of the skeptic quite naturally, and I don't really see possibilities everywhere - at least not good possibilities. I'm not at all fanciful, and I'm something of a judger in the classic sense of the word - as in, the little internal judge that gavels down one verdict or another on virtually everything I encounter. With the unfortunate exception of work or other practical matters, I'm not a particularly open-ended person.
    Oh ok, so what you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you like having decisions made already, except if it's not necessary (like at work or school, etc.) ? Is that what you mean when you say "With the unfortunate exception of work or other practical matters, I'm not a particularly open-ended person." ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    I really do want to iron out this daydream thing though. Since I was very young, I have had extremely elaborate daydreams that I never share with anyone. As in, I have never ONCE shared them with anyone (hey, the beauty of anonymity). Basically, I create characters and play out scenes in my mind. I'm never a character, and people I know are rarely characters (and if they are, only in very tangential ways). The story-lines can develop for years - I'd say I've probably had about 10 major stories throughout the 30 years of my life, and I don't think I've ever lived a day without spending some time in that world. When I'm in daydream mode, the outside world doesn't exist at all. It's all extremely rich and vivid and complex and also completely separate from the rest of my personality. Unlike the child with the imaginary friend, I never blurred the line between fantasy and reality. That world is entirely divorced from the grounded, realistic - even skeptical - person I am in real life (although I admit, I'll occasionally steal a line or an idea from one of the characters in the daydream without attribution...sometimes I do actually develop theories by working them out through the characters.)

    My belief is that daydreaming (especially daydreams in which the person having the daydream isn't even starring in said daydream) is likely the result of an introverted perceiving function, Ni or Si, and that the difference in that function would result in entirely different daydreams. For instance, Ni might create a world that bears little resemblance to the actual world - maybe people don't even look like people, or it exists in the 13th century, or horses fly or something imaginative like that. Si, on the other hand, would likely create a world that neatly overlaps with the real world. Characters do and say realistic things and behave in accordance with the laws of physics. My daydreams are very much the latter.

    Problem I'm having is that it seems assumed that daydreams themselves are evidence of N over S. That's just a stereotype, right?

    Do you daydream in this way?
    Hmm... interesting, that sounds very different from me. I don't really think of things like that. Come to think of it, the word 'daydreaming' is pretty puzzling to me. I usually think of whatever I'm doing at a particular time or what I need to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    Sometimes I feel like I'm trying to type two different people... the external version of me, which seeks an anchor for my life, prefers down-to-Earth people and forms of entertainment, takes a skeptical, judging approach to most things, is generally annoyed by idealism, wants things to be a certain way, and thinks people need to act more in accordance to duty than with subjective, untrustworthy personal values. When I read the temperament descriptions of the SJs, I can check it off point by point as fitting me.

    Then there's the internal version, which creates worlds, zones out daily, tinkers with theories, and has a decent amount of personal introspection and insight into others. When I read the standard descriptions of N vs. S, I can check off all the points under N as fitting me. Both versions are authentic - it's not like I'm a dreamy person who learned how to exhibit skepticism and realism. I've played both roles naturally for my entire life.

    Which side am I supposed to think of when typing?
    This too is intriguing. I am very introspective too, but most of me would be in the first paragraph of this particular quote (starting with "the external version...").

  2. #152
    brainheart
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    Yeah, for sure.

    Down with N-Snobbery! Up with S... uh, what rhymes with 'snobbery'?

  3. #153
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Yeah, for sure.

    Down with N-Snobbery! Up with S... uh, what rhymes with 'snobbery'?
    robbery.

  4. #154
    brainheart
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    Well, yeah, but that doesn't exactly work, does it?

  5. #155
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    Oh ok, so what you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you like having decisions made already, except if it's not necessary (like at work or school, etc.) ? Is that what you mean when you say "With the unfortunate exception of work or other practical matters, I'm not a particularly open-ended person." ?
    Sort of. I think it just means that I enjoy closure, and I like decisions being finalized. I don't really enjoy having options open. But I'm not particularly good at follow-through when it comes to the stuff that really matters to my life. THAT'S the unfortunate exception.

  6. #156
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    I've gotta head out for a bit, but while I'm gone, I'll try to think up more appropriate rhymes for snobbery...

  7. #157
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie
    For one thing, I often play the role of the skeptic quite naturally, and I don't really see possibilities everywhere - at least not good possibilities. I'm not at all fanciful, and I'm something of a judger in the classic sense of the word - as in, the little internal judge that gavels down one verdict or another on virtually everything I encounter. With the unfortunate exception of work or other practical matters, I'm not a particularly open-ended person.
    This does seem J, that's right.
    But than, the first bolded part may be very easily interpreted as Fi. (Fi is a strong judge.)
    And the other bolded part seems NP, or N at the very least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie
    I really do want to iron out this daydream thing though. Since I was very young, I have had extremely elaborate daydreams that I never share with anyone. As in, I have never ONCE shared them with anyone (hey, the beauty of anonymity). Basically, I create characters and play out scenes in my mind. I'm never a character, and people I know are rarely characters (and if they are, only in very tangential ways). The story-lines can develop for years - I'd say I've probably had about 10 major stories throughout the 30 years of my life, and I don't think I've ever lived a day without spending some time in that world. When I'm in daydream mode, the outside world doesn't exist at all. It's all extremely rich and vivid and complex and also completely separate from the rest of my personality. Unlike the child with the imaginary friend, I never blurred the line between fantasy and reality. That world is entirely divorced from the grounded, realistic - even skeptical - person I am in real life (although I admit, I'll occasionally steal a line or an idea from one of the characters in the daydream without attribution...sometimes I do actually develop theories by working them out through the characters.)
    Well... I wouldn't say this daydreaming mode is particularly related to one type of person or another, but if I had to choose, INFP would seem like the more natural choice to me. I, for once, was 'telling stories' to myself in my head all my childhood. They were completely separated from reality as well, and I didn't feel any need to share with anyone else. But then I started to dream about being a writer, I started learning how to put the ideas onto paper, so they didn't really stay in my head all the time, although I very rarely share until this day. (The 19th century thing was more like a game than anything else.) I know that my boyfriend is also a great (day)dreamer, but his daydreams are pretty reality-oriented - he shared that he fantasizes about his future or some 'better place'. I'm not sure if his imagination is elaborate enough to be able to create what you described, though - he always has lots of good ideas for stories and characters, but he doesn't really do anything with them. Your fantasizing reminds me of my old 'telling stories' quite a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie
    My belief is that daydreaming (especially daydreams in which the person having the daydream isn't even starring in said daydream) is likely the result of an introverted perceiving function, Ni or Si, and that the difference in that function would result in entirely different daydreams. For instance, Ni might create a world that bears little resemblance to the actual world - maybe people don't even look like people, or it exists in the 13th century, or horses fly or something imaginative like that. Si, on the other hand, would likely create a world that neatly overlaps with the real world. Characters do and say realistic things and behave in accordance with the laws of physics. My daydreams are very much the latter.
    Hum, I'd have to disagree on this one. I think that daydreaming is reserved for any person with imagination. It is probably more commonly associated with N, although it's not in my place to judge it. I don't think that the difference between Ni and Si would work like you described, though. Most NFs I know (and I know quite a lot) have pretty reality-focused imagination either. They don't like fanciful stories at all that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie
    Problem I'm having is that it seems assumed that daydreams themselves are evidence of N over S. That's just a stereotype, right?
    Honestly, I don't know. But the more I'm trying to remember, the less S's who would do anything similar do that I know. It was one of the things that separated me from other people when I was young, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie
    Sometimes I feel like I'm trying to type two different people...
    This is really hard. The only thing I can tell you is that you really extremely remind me of my older brother (possibly the same enneagram type either). I mistyped him for an INTJ for the longest time, because his Te stands out so much but his N as well, but when I looked at the difference between Ne and Ni it became clear he definitely isn't a Ni user, no matter how J he behaves. Then I looked at him from perspective and realized he can't be anything but an INFP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie
    Which side am I supposed to think of when typing?
    I think the inner world is more important, because it says something about your perception. But if you think the outside world matters more, go with it

    I will keep that secret belief you're an INFP and be content.

  8. #158
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post

    Hum, I'd have to disagree on this one. I think that daydreaming is reserved for any person with imagination. It is probably more commonly associated with N, although it's not in my place to judge it. I don't think that the difference between Ni and Si would work like you described, though. Most NFs I know (and I know quite a lot) have pretty reality-focused imagination either. They don't like fanciful stories at all that much.
    Just wanted to chime in and say although I'm an N, I've never been a daydreamer in the sense that Ruthie has described she experiences. So it seems perfectly reasonable to me that if there are N's who don't experience daydreams in really imaginative senses - creating characters, or the like - there will be S's who do. I think this is one of those things where it's easy to go astray when trying to type someone -- latching onto details, and noticing how little details or individual behaviors point towards a myriad of different types, when it's more of the broader context of who you are that points towards type. I'm sure all of us have random little traits that could easily fall into another type, more stereotypically, but the *majority* of our traits fall in line with one.

    I haven't read enough of this thread to really comment on your type; just wanted to say that!
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  9. #159
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    I take a full day, and still have no additional rhymes for "snobbery."

  10. #160
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    I take a full day, and still have no additional rhymes for "snobbery."
    What about strawberry?

    (Or is there any sly nuance in pronunciation?)
    (... I would like to hear that poem...)

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