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  1. #21
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    INFJ is probably the most often guessed type for me, but I guess I don't feel quite as ethereal as the INFJs I know. They seem to be better able to embrace the mystical, where I am less and less so as time goes by.
    Well, that could mean you're an ISFJ. If you don't relate to the escapism or going off into another world stuff, that is. Then again, I've never really thought Ni was that mystical except to non-Ni users, because they weren't used to it.

    But on the other hand... what do you mean by "as time goes by"? If you mean that you used to be able to embrace the mystical more than now, it could just mean you're developing the S side of your personality more.

    I'm really just throwing out suggestions here, though. I don't know much about it.

  2. #22
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, that could mean you're an ISFJ. If you don't relate to the escapism or going off into another world stuff, that is. Then again, I've never really thought Ni was that mystical except to non-Ni users, because they weren't used to it.

    But on the other hand... what do you mean by "as time goes by"? If you mean that you used to be able to embrace the mystical more, it could just mean you're developing the S side of your personality more.
    Oh, I relate plenty to escapism and going off into another world... just not really believing in it. Does that make sense? I was thinking about spirituality when I wrote that, actually. I have never really felt very spiritual though I faked it for awhile.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  3. #23
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Oh, I relate plenty to escapism and going off into another world... just not really believing in it. Does that make sense? I was thinking about spirituality when I wrote that, actually. I have never really felt very spiritual though I faked it for awhile.
    Yes, that makes sense to me. I've never really believed in another world or felt spiritual either.

    Sometimes I obsess over dreams, daydreams, as well as resonant songs and images trying to figure out if they have symbolic meaning relating to myself, but I tend to consciously imagine things coming together in a way that represents something, sometimes in ways I didn't expect. Not really just believing in it as a whole, real world. Then again, maybe that's because I have too much Ti and not enough Fe.

    Anyway, I have a feeling that you're very concerned about choosing your type accurately, and what the consequences of choosing one will be. You think that if you have just a little more information, you'll "know" your type. Am I right?

  4. #24
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Oh, I relate plenty to escapism and going off into another world... just not really believing in it. Does that make sense? I was thinking about spirituality when I wrote that, actually. I have never really felt very spiritual though I faked it for awhile.
    There are rather different kinds of INFJs. I notice some that are pretty level-headed and not mystical, but tend to focus on more subjective systems than their INTJs cousins.

    I find it difficult to type someone online. In past discussions about your type it came up that you could have fairly balanced pairs of:
    Ti-Ne and Si-Fe which would be a half-way point between INTP and ISFJ.

    Another possibility is this same kind of split between: Ni-Fe and Ti-Se which would be the half-way point between INFJ and ISTP.

    I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I wonder often about the T-F categories. They are by nature contrasting categories, but not mutually exclusive in as far as I can tell. Empathy and logic are both desirable skills that are contrasting by nature, but not mutually exclusive. They are similar to technical vs. artistic skill. In both cases people may tend towards one or the other, but are capable of possessing both or neither. The absence of empathy does not produce logic and vice versa. That mutual exclusivity is inherent to the E and I axis and to some extent the P and J. I'm not convinced the T-F categories are well constructed and is part of the reason they cause confusion. The categories by nature often leave either type diminished. There are individuals who do seem to justify the categories, but there are plenty who get caught in the tangle caused by the lack of mutual exclusivity of the categories.

    For myself, I care a great deal about objectivity and being reasonable, and I make decisions based on that over emotion - to an extent as great as anyone I know in real life. Every important choice I make will set emotion aside even at the point of pain. However, I have a natural interest in personal perception and empathy. It is the content of my mind, but not the process. I find I have this in common with a number of the female INFJs and possibly some of the males, but I think the males of this sort identify as INTJ.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  5. #25
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Good stuff, as always, Toonia. And I agree with you about the T/F. I think it is a more problematic set of poles than the others because they're not really opposites. I like to think I am competent at both logic and empathy, and can employ both subjectivity and objectivity when appropriate.

    What are your thoughts about J/P? Because I think it's similar, though not as problematic. Honestly I sometimes think the whole thing is a series of false choices with the exception of I/E which actually seems like a set of true opposites that most people would have to lean towards one at the expense of the other.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #26
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I don't know what you are but I like you! (I'm really trying to be helpful, you can't be any types I don't get along with)

  7. #27
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Anyway, I have a feeling that you're very concerned about choosing your type accurately, and what the consequences of choosing one will be. You think that if you have just a little more information, you'll "know" your type. Am I right?
    Kind of... Typology for me is mostly an idle hobby rather than something I put a lot of serious stock in, because of the problems I have encountered with it. But I sort of envy people who have that specific identity and the camaraderie that comes with it. Still, choosing one feels like falsely limiting myself, and I often react to the other types' camaraderie by identifying as the odd-type-out (i.e. when INTPs talk about what horrible mates ISFJs make, I tend to hop in and speak as an ISFJ, or if INTJs are talking about how aimless INTPs are I might jump in and speak as an INTP). And a big fat "yes" to that last one-- I always feel like an important self-discovery is right around the corner.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  8. #28
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    I don't know what you are but I like you! (I'm really trying to be helpful, you can't be any types I don't get along with)
    Which types are those?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #29
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Good stuff, as always, Toonia. And I agree with you about the T/F. I think it is a more problematic set of poles than the others because they're not really opposites. I like to think I am competent at both logic and empathy, and can employ both subjectivity and objectivity when appropriate.

    What are your thoughts about J/P? Because I think it's similar, though not as problematic. Honestly I sometimes think the whole thing is a series of false choices with the exception of I/E which actually seems like a set of true opposites that most people would have to lean towards one at the expense of the other.
    I'm personally confused on the P/J thing. My understanding is that it is based on mutually exclusive poles, but the problem is it is based on more than one set. For example
    J = structured/organized
    = closure
    = certitude
    = forceful

    P = unstructured
    = open-ended
    = questioning
    = easy-going

    This might be boiled down to the structure/unstructured pole and the certitude/questioning pole. I don't see a consistent correlation between those two poles. In many discussions I find people focus more on one or the other and make their assessments about P and J based on that.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #30
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I wonder often about the T-F categories. They are by nature contrasting categories, but not mutually exclusive in as far as I can tell. Empathy and logic are both desirable skills that are contrasting by nature, but not mutually exclusive. They are similar to technical vs. artistic skill. In both cases people may tend towards one or the other, but are capable of possessing both or neither. The absence of empathy does not produce logic and vice versa. That mutual exclusivity is inherent to the E and I axis and to some extent the P and J. I'm not convinced the T-F categories are well constructed and is part of the reason they cause confusion. The categories by nature often leave either type diminished. There are individuals who do seem to justify the categories, but there are plenty who get caught in the tangle caused by the lack of mutual exclusivity of the categories.

    For myself, I care a great deal about objectivity and being reasonable, and I make decisions based on that over emotion - to an extent as great as anyone I know in real life. Every important choice I make will set emotion aside even at the point of pain. However, I have a natural interest in personal perception and empathy. It is the content of my mind, but not the process. I find I have this in common with a number of the female INFJs and possibly some of the males, but I think the males of this sort identify as INTJ.
    Isn't it quite common for INFJs to straddle(to use Anja's term) the T/F divide? Cause I often notice this about myself. I maybe a feeler, but that doesn't mean I completely reject logic. In fact I despise extremes in either direction - T or F.

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