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  1. #21
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Say a man is born blind. He is operated on. The operation is successful. He still cannot see.
    Hence you do not see with your eyes but with your brain.
    You first have to learn to look before you can see?

    You can see with your intuition but it does not help much in the physical world.
    You first have to look. Then you see the physical world.

    Perception is about optics.
    But there are two exclusive ways to perceive.

    The S sees what it looks at.
    The N looks at what it sees.

  2. #22
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I think that I have pretty good social skills these days, but they were hard-earned to be sure. I'm surprised that the INTJs you know are so talkative; I was thinking about it the other day, and I would say that while I'm not shy or soft-spoken, the amount which I speak would probably betray my introverted nature to someone on the look-out for such things.
    Well the thing that does tip me off that someone is an INTJ is that they prefer to keep to themselves most of the time, and in many social settings they will keep quiet and not say much. But if you get an INTJ talking about something work related, then it's like you've opened a pandora's box and they can keep talking forever about what they're doing and what they're planning on doing. They are also like this about anything which they've put a lot of planning into, but it usually shows up in something work related.

    I think the extraverted feel comes from the INTJ "driven" nature to accomplish their goals. For example there is a guy at my work who while I don't know particularly well, I am fairly certain that he is INTJ. He almost always stays in his office, but if you peek in while he's working he seems to have lots of energy and drive toward whatever he's working on (staring intently at the computer screen, typing quickly and never seeming to tire). When he is outside of his office he walks quickly and talks quickly and with lots of energy and drive in order to accomplish his goals. He was given a company wide award, because he designed and completed a very impressive computer program almost entirely by himself and in record time. The one time I've talked to him about something non-work related he didn't want to talk about something "normal" like family or sports. Instead he talked about his former obsession with bean counting contests and the system he'd developed for winning the most contests in the most efficient manner. Basically everthing he does says "Hi, I'm an INTJ" and that driven, work-related energy is part of the package. I believe that is what gives INTJ's the extraverted feeling even though they usually prefer to keep to themselves.

    INFJ's I believe are more deceptive, because their energy usually comes from relationships rather than work related tasks. Because of that it can be very hard to distinguish one from an extraverted feeler until you get to know them fairly well.
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  3. #23
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    I thought ISTJs were the bean counters!
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I thought ISTJs were the bean counters!
    I am an IxxP, an I like estimation too.

    I think "bean counting" as a figurative expression can apply to ISTJs. They can be quite exacting. But that is a good thing in most of the situations they find themselves in.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Yeah, also, you have to remember that the S vs. N is a gradient and thus you're going to have overlap; it's just a preference.

    For instance, as an INTJ, I am pretty well balanced on these descriptors.

    SENSING............................INTUITIVE

    Concrete...........................Abstract
    - Literal..........................- Figurative
    - Tangible.........................- Symbolic
    - Likes exact facts................- Likes original ideas

    Realistic..........................Imaginative
    - Sensible.........................- Ingenious
    - Matter of fact...................- Imaginative
    - Focuses on effectiveness.........- Focuses on novelty

    Practical..........................Inferential
    - Pragmatic........................- Scholarly
    - Results-oriented.................- Ideas-oriented
    - Enjoys applied interests.........- Enjoys knowledge for its own sake

    Experiential.......................Theoretical
    - Realistic........................- Conceptual
    - Empirical........................- Big picture
    - Facts are valuable experiences...- Facts make patterns

    Traditional.........................Original
    - Conventional......................- Unconventional
    - Accepting.........................- Idiosyncratic
    - Values established institutions...- Values inventiveness

    My suggestion: try reading a bunch of the specific 1/16 descriptors (as in, a few different explanations of each type) and seeing what you really identify with. I really like the murraystate explanations.
    False dichotomies!

    Other than for

    Conventional......................- Unconventional
    and maybe

    - Literal..........................- Figurative
    I don't think any of the other pairs are "opposites" or "require balancing".

    Keep in mind the Hegelian Dialectic.

    Dialectic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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