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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Alrighty, I've hit another "wall" of sorts ... I have taken a couple of these cognitive function tests and Ne shows up as my dominant function over Fi.

    But is this not in contradiction to my MBTI type?

    Te is also strong, and in the tertiary position ... but this is supposedly my inferior function. Si is markedly lower, Se the lowest. But, some of you may recall my initial entry into the forum was to try to discern between INFP vs ENFP, and, using the determining factor of "do people energize or drain you" - I concurred that my typing of INFP was accurate.

    How does one make sense of these types of contradictions?

    I understand this is not a "black & white" subject area, but any additional insight is appreciated.
    As others have said, the most reliable way to estimate your function use order is to learn their definitions. In addition you can always take various tests and average out their results. Your 4-letter type, though, is determined first and foremost by the preferences themselves. If you understand them and youíre sure yours are INFP Ė that youíre more I than E - then thatís your mbti type. Donít worry if a function order test shows a contradiction. Look at the threads here on this subject and youíll see thatís pretty common.

  2. #12
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Alrighty, I've hit another "wall" of sorts ... I have taken a couple of these cognitive function tests and Ne shows up as my dominant function over Fi.

    But is this not in contradiction to my MBTI type?

    Te is also strong, and in the tertiary position ... but this is supposedly my inferior function. Si is markedly lower, Se the lowest. But, some of you may recall my initial entry into the forum was to try to discern between INFP vs ENFP, and, using the determining factor of "do people energize or drain you" - I concurred that my typing of INFP was accurate.

    How does one make sense of these types of contradictions?

    I understand this is not a "black & white" subject area, but any additional insight is appreciated.

    The problem is that you're mixing MBTI and Jung, and while the former took the latter into account, it's not based directly on it. Myers and Briggs sort of borrowed some of Jung's terminology and reassigned it new definitions...hence the confusion.

    Jung called S and N the "perceiving" functions because they gather data; he called T and F the "judging" functions because they make decisions based on that data.

    The problem arises when comparing this with MBTI's four-letter type descriptions: How can it be that all Introverted Judgers lead with a Perceiving function, and vice versa? This does seem a little inconsistent.

    It's because Myers, based on her own case studies, intended Judging vs. Perceiving as a separate and distinct fourth personality variable, not in the same sense that Jung used the terms.

    I wouldn't put much stock in functional order tests--they get a little too speculative for me. The Keirsey-Bates MBTI simply measures four independent variables and then gives you results on each; this is probably the best guess at your type, but there are still certain people for whom MBTI is simply not very useful.

    Most of them are very close to center on S vs. N; since this is the biggest behavioral distinction in MBTI theory, people who have close to equal S and N preferences often appear to act a lot like two (or more) different types in nearly equal proportions. The problem becomes compounded if the person is also close to center on one or more other variables--I know one INTJ (that's what we finally decided, I think...) who's tested variously as INTJ, ISTJ, ISFJ and even INFJ, depending on the day. His behavior is proportionately inconsistent (and confusing!) and makes it extremely difficult to pinpoint him on a particular type.

    That's the reality of a system of generalizations--it has its weaknesses. The best you can do is try to type as many real people in your life as possible and see which ones you group best with. It's a tough call. Based on a few of your posts, my first guess would be INFP, but if you really think you express Ne over Fi, you might be ENFP. Ask yourself which is important: Internal ethical values or pointing out patterns and connections in the outside world? Do you generally tend to release these thoughts and connections before filtering them through Fi's value system, or do those values usually get the final say?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #13
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Hmm...
    Perhaps your experiencing something like this?
    Source
    I had thought about that Costrin ... are the glasses so comfortable that I hardly know I am wearing them?

    Take this statement: "As a Dominant Function, Fi leads IFPs to live a life based on empathy and harmony between self and others..." That is true.

    Next: Re Preaching the Secondary: "INTPs and INFPs often preach "thinking outside the box" and the importance of adjusting and adapting creatively and spontaneously to whatever happens, not imposing a priori criteria on things." True as well.

    I do think I am INFP, I just don't feel as "introverted" as the type as a whole sounds.

  4. #14
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I had thought about that Costrin ... are the glasses so comfortable that I hardly know I am wearing them?

    Take this statement: "As a Dominant Function, Fi leads IFPs to live a life based on empathy and harmony between self and others..." That is true.

    Next: Re Preaching the Secondary: "INTPs and INFPs often preach "thinking outside the box" and the importance of adjusting and adapting creatively and spontaneously to whatever happens, not imposing a priori criteria on things." True as well.

    I do think I am INFP, I just don't feel as "introverted" as the type as a whole sounds.

    Probably just very slight Introversion preference, so you act like an ENFP a good portion of the time too, just not quite as often.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #15
    ‚íļ‚ďČ‚í∑ Eric B's Avatar
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    Wel I've been trying to argue that the strengths are distinct from the roles. But my test based on the roles http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...type-test.html is having mixed results, at best.
    I for one had Ne as strongest on the CP test, but it still made me I, and it seems to fit. Both Ne being strongest, and my being dominant I, and T. So I just say I have an overactive Ne, and that seems right. It still is more of a "parent" than a "hero".
    Of course, this stuff could just be our limited perception. For one thing Berens and the others point out that an extraverted auxiliary will most likely be more noticeable to both yourself and others. It is extraverted, after all.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  6. #16
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    For one thing Berens and the others point out that an extraverted auxiliary will most likely be more noticeable to both yourself and others. It is extraverted, after all.
    Indeed - a very insightful comment. Perhaps I don't notice Fi so much because it's not driving the car, it IS the car.

    All; thank you so much for your thoughts - this is very helpful!

  7. #17
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    I've been doing some reading and I think that for Introverts, MBTI's J vs. P dichotomy must simply be reversed when considering one's functional order.

    An INTP is Perceiving by MBTI's definition (that is, open-ended, unstructured, comfortable with abrupt changes of plans or having no plans at all, etc.), but leads with what Jung would call a Judging function (Ti). Socionics seems to compensate for this by calling the ISFP by the name SEI (Sensory-Ethical Introvert), suggesting that ISFP's dominant and auxiliary functions are Si+Fe, not Fi+Se as traditional MBTI theory would suggest.

    Likewise, the ISFJ would really be dominant Fi/auxiliary Se (called ESI or Ethical-Sensory Introvert), and so on...basically, if you want to bring Jung's eight functions into an MBTI discussion, and you're Introverted, switch the first two functions with each other, and then do the same to the last two--but keep the e/i directions the same.

    For example, INFJ is typically considered in MBTI theory to be Ni/Fe/Ti/Se--change that to Fi/Ne/Si/Te, and you have a system that is, at least, more consistent with Jung's definitions of functions--now we have J types leading with Judging functions and P types leading with Perceiving ones.

    I'm not entirely sure if this is the best system, but socionics does it and it seems to make reasonable sense. Food for thought, at least.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #18
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Alrighty, I've hit another "wall" of sorts ... I have taken a couple of these cognitive function tests and Ne shows up as my dominant function over Fi.

    Te is also strong, and in the tertiary position ... but this is supposedly my inferior function. Si is markedly lower, Se the lowest. But, some of you may recall my initial entry into the forum was to try to discern between INFP vs ENFP, and, using the determining factor of "do people energize or drain you" - I concurred that my typing of INFP was accurate.
    i know a girl who i type as infp that fits this description. the first function that stands out is her crazy Ne. most imaginative girl i've ever met in my entire life. (use = practice!). then i got to know her and i realized she was an Fi dom. it doesn't come out, but she shared some of her feelings with me that were intensely personal to her and i knew immediately. (an infj like me is ALWAYS looking for those, and it didn't hurt that we realized we shared the same values, cultural perceptions, passions, etc)

    she is borderline i/e. the more e she acts (which is largely circumstantial), the more Ne she is. she's crafty. too crafty. when she is more introverted, she is melancholy and trapped inside herself clawing to get out. she's going thru some big changes in her life and they are extremely WEIGHTY to her so she needs to sort it out internally. she is two very different people depending on the circumstances. BOTH functions are highly developed, either can lead for a while. Ne is more obvious, but Fi is WHO she is. she identifies herself with her values, feelings, beliefs. her talent (Ne) is how she engages and performs herself for others. and supports the deeply introverted feeling aspect of her that can be exhausting and all-too slow sometimes.

    as far as Te goes, i see her as being extremely crafty and capable of juggling a lot of possibilities, but it is more improv and spur of the moment. no maneuver gets her into trouble. but she definitely isn't hierarchical or plotting 7 or 8 moves ahead. it's just that each move opens up more possibility, and she navigates that really effectively.

    i imagine Si would be age-related especially as tertiary. if you are college age, it's unlikely that you're going to give the past a lot of time (unless you are a hermit). too many people and too much action and the speed of life too fast to slow down and use Si often.

  9. #19
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    I am tied between Fi and Ne, but I am an INFP also. It seems like I'm built like an ENFP, but I'm obviously introverted (it's the only strong/consistent preference). It's possible, and I'm still an INFP. You don't need to worry about it.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  10. #20
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Forget the order of the cognitive functions. The order does NOT have to be exact. If it were, most of us, including myself, wouldn't be any type at all. Just look at the four different categories (I/E, N/S, T/F, and J/P) and see which ones match you more for each of those 4. Then once you've found out, you can look at descriptions of that MBTI type and see if it matches you. Then you can see if the cognitive functions relatively match you.

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